Interlacing still visible on DVD?

[honey_lake]

Hi all,

Been pulling my hair out for too long, so requiring assistance.

I’ve burned an MPEG2 video to the DVD, however when I play it on the television the combing is still apparent. See below for the process, and if there’s something I’ve done wrong please let me know. Video is PAL.

1. VirtualDub
Video is captured into Lossless AVI. Source is PAL, interlaced, 720x576, 25FPS read through S-VIDEO. Overlay mode is selected for viewing.
Total time: ~70mins

2. Avidemux 2.5.6
AVI is opened, settings below are set and then saved as <video_name>.mpg. Two other files are generated which I assume are not required - .stat and .qs.

Video settings
MPEG-2 (mpeg2video)

• Encoding Mode = Two Pass - Video Size
• Target video size = 4300MB
• Min. Bitrate = 0 (default)
• Max. Bitrate = 9000
• Buffer Size = 224
• Interlacing = Interlaced TFF
• Matrices = Auto (default)
• GOP Size = 15

Audio Settings
AC3 (Aften)
Bitrate = 384

Format
MPEG-PS (A+V)
Muxing Format = DVD

3. Simple DVD Creator
Click Video >>, then select <video_name>.mpg. It splits into two files .m2v and .ac3.
Titles: Title 1:
Video: <video_name>.m2v
Audio: <video_name>.ac3

Click “Author DVD”, select folder on Desktop. Two folders are created (AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS).

4. ImgBurn

1. Click “Write files/folders to disc”
2. Drag both AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders into the pane.
3. Select destination to DVD.
4. Click Build and wait.

Thanks all.

[timtape]

Interlaced was always intended to be displayed interlaced because that's what it is. I believe the DVD format is natively interlaced so there should be no problem there. Problems can come when the DVD's output is converted to progressive. In NTSC, interlaced is not 30 frames per second but 60 "fields" per second, the higher rate of 60 fields (half frames if you like) giving it a smoothness to the eye that a progressive 30 FPS could never give. There's really no way to truly "deinterlace" interlaced if by that we mean converting it to progressive.

[honey_lake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

Interlaced was always intended to be displayed interlaced because that's what it is. I believe the DVD format is natively interlaced so there should be no problem there. Problems can come when the DVD's output is converted to progressive. In NTSC, interlaced is not 30 frames per second but 60 "fields" per second, the higher rate of 60 fields (half frames if you like) giving it a smoothness to the eye that a progressive 30 FPS could never give. There's really no way to truly "deinterlace" interlaced if by that we mean converting it to progressive.

Ah okay, so I'm still meant to see the combing to some degree with interlaced footage? It just looks "smoother" on TV.

For some reason I incorrectly thought that when it was said the television should display interlaced footage better than the laptop, that the interlacing would not be visible, or as apparent, at all. I'll have to compare the two side-by-side to see the difference.

[CurryKnight]

Your MPEG-2 video is Interlaced TFF (TOP field first)

Is the DVD output BFF? (BOTTOM field first)

I believe this would cause issues.

[Hushpower]

Quote:

Ah okay, so I'm still meant to see the combing to some degree with interlaced footage? It just looks "smoother" on TV.

You should not see any interlacing when playing a DVD on a TV.

Have a read of this post over at VideoHelp.

AVIDemux is up to version 2.8.1 now.

[BarryTheCrab]

That old version of Avidemux is a strong contender for your problems.
Getting that version to create an interlaced mpeg2 was, for me, damn near impossible. Maybe 1 time out of a dozen, the other 11 times it was progressive.
New version is rock-solid.

[honey_lake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurryKnight

Your MPEG-2 video is Interlaced TFF (TOP field first)

Is the DVD output BFF? (BOTTOM field first)

I believe this would cause issues.

VHS is TFF, so that's what I selected. I believe BFF is primarily for DV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryTheCrab

That old version of Avidemux is a strong contender for your problems.
Getting that version to create an interlaced mpeg2 was, for me, damn near impossible. Maybe 1 time out of a dozen, the other 11 times it was progressive.
New version is rock-solid.

Well what do you know.... this might be the problem!!! I just installed MediaInfo, checked the footage info, and guess what? Scan type is PROGRESSIVE!!! Even though I selected Interlaced TFF =( I used 2.5.6 since LS recommended it on here for MPEG-2 conversion. I'll try one more time, if it fails again I'll install the newer one.

Will report back if it works! Thank you

[lordsmurf]

VHS does not have a TFF or BFF. That's determined by the card. DV is BFF, everything else is TFF.

[honey_lake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

VHS does not have a TFF or BFF. That's determined by the card. DV is BFF, everything else is TFF.

Thanks for clarifying, a miscommunication on my part.

[Hushpower]

Quote:

I used 2.5.6 since LS recommended it on here for MPEG-2 conversion

Unless LS specifically recommended that version, when newer versions existed, I'd wouldn't even try with the old version. You're just asking for trouble.

[Hushpower]

I just encoded a VHS capture to MPEG 2 in AVIDemux 2.8.1 and it comes out Interlaced.

[honey_lake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hushpower

I just encoded a VHS capture to MPEG 2 in AVIDemux 2.8.1 and it comes out Interlaced.

Yep, downloaded the latest version and worked fine, thanks heaps. 2.5.6 was recommended on this forum by LS, although not sure how 2.8.1 will stack up against it from those who have used 2.5 successfully (2.6 and 2.7 were recommended against, see link).

Also decided to test with ffmpeg on the command line, but I didn't see much of a difference between the two when played on the computer. Someone with more experience on both could probably chime in here.

I did initially try and keep the pixel format as yuv422p, only to realise it's not DVD compliant Command used was:

ffmpeg -i MOVIE.avi -target pal-dvd -flags +ildct+ilme -alternate_scan 1 -top 1 -vf setfield=tff -aspect 4:3  MOVIE.mpg

The presets for pal-dvd are as follows if interested:

-f dvd -muxrate 10080k -packetsize 2048
-s 720x576 -pix_fmt yuv420p -r 25
-codec:v mpeg2video -g 15 -b:v 6000k -maxrate:v 9000k -minrate:v 0 -bufsize:v 1835008
-ar 48000
-codec:a ac3 -b:a 448k

I ended up just using the Avidemux 2.8.1 video.

Tested fine with Simple DVD Creator. Worked also with DVDStyler, bitrate set to Auto and within video settings ticked "Do not remultiplex/transcode".

Hope some of the above helps someone!

[lordsmurf]

The 2.5.6 issues weren't present when the guide was made, with the download at the time, with Win7. In fact, attempting to encode MPEG in 2.6 and 2.7 was what had failed badly.

So we have two possible answers for why:
- The download later changed, even though still 2.5.6. Not as likely, but possible, especially with GUIs -- ie, the underlying libraries changed, but not GUI
- Something in later Win releases messed with something. And that may be likely, since Avidemux is just a GUI, and their can be unforeseen consequences in how the underlying programs react to the OS.

I verify MPEG interlace in a CRT with DVD player, so I didn't miss an interlace issue. I hate interlace issues.

Moving forward, using 2.8 is probably the right approach here. I'll make updates where needed, when time allows.

[honey_lake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

The 2.5.6 issues weren't present when the guide was made, with the download at the time, with Win7. In fact, attempting to encode MPEG in 2.6 and 2.7 was what had failed badly.

So we have two possible answers for why:
- The download later changed, even though still 2.5.6. Not as likely, but possible, especially with GUIs -- ie, the underlying libraries changed, but not GUI
- Something in later Win releases messed with something. And that may be likely, since Avidemux is just a GUI, and their can be unforeseen consequences in how the underlying programs react to the OS.

I verify MPEG interlace in a CRT with DVD player, so I didn't miss an interlace issue. I hate interlace issues.

Moving forward, using 2.8 is probably the right approach here. I'll make updates where needed, when time allows.

Thanks for your input. Not sure what the issue was in my case. Was running on a fresh Win 7 Professional install, so it could be a Win 7 thing or just something happened with the program.

As others have said, thanks again for continuing to do this type of work 20 years down the line. It helps people like myself who are late to the game.