Recommended 2nd-tier mid-level VCRs?

[Blacktape]

I know this question has been asked before and that there are several VCR buying guides on this site, but allow me to re-ask with fine-tuning:

I have a small number of VHS tapes of railroad enthusiast events and recorded TV shows that I'd like to transfer. Since my collection of VCRs is in a state of disrepair (long-term projects!), I am on the hunt for a "2nd-tier" VHS or S-VHS VCR with good playback that I can use with my Panasonic DMR-ES35V as a TBC-like device into my PC with a Diamond VC500 and VirtualDub. The Panasonic/VC500 combo has been meeting my expectations with transferring Video8 tapes from a Sony camcorder.

I know the go-to VCRs recommended on this site are the high-end JVCs and Panasonics SVHS models with built in TBCs, but the prices of those aren't appropriate for my project's scope. The tapes I want to transfer are in very, very good condition and don't have particularly special content on them, so I don't really need a top-of-the-line prosumer deck. Still, the engineer in me would still like to maximize the quality vs. cost curve and see what is possible.

In this thread https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/new...-playback.html, the JVC HR-S3800U and HR-S4800U were recommended as providing very good playback. These can be found online for decent prices though there aren't a lot available, so I'd like to see what other options exist. digitalFAQ's main guide recommended various VCR brands here https://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vi...k-hardware.htm but does not specify any models. These brands made many grades of VCRs so it's not easy to tell which ones were higher-tier and which were Walmart fodder.

Are there any other brand/models of mid-level VCRs that you'd recommend for having good if not perfect playback? If so, feel free to share here along with any plusses or minuses you feel the unit has.

[lordsmurf]

Stick to JVC S-VHS, non-TBC 290x, 38/900, 4800, 5900. The 3800/4800 is usually best, 29/59 often worst.

Pair with ES10/15 (that 35V is fine) as minimalist line TBC(ish).
Chase with weak frame TBC/TBC(ish).

Remember: buy it, use it, resell it. Quality gear holds value. Junk is yours forever.

And your budget for video gear should match pricing with a decent laptop or desktop computer. Not the price of a hard drive, certainly not the budget for a cheeseburger. Total for this minimal setup would mirror a budget Mini PC. Some novices try to overly pinch pennies, and that just won't end well, wasted money trying to unreasonably save money.

[BarryTheCrab]

Just for general information…the Philips 960b is a JVC S4800 in a smaller form.
I had my 4800 and the Philips serviced/recapped and the tech inside said they
were nearly identical, and the 960b is a JVC.

[lordsmurf]

Perhaps it is. It's definitely a JVC rebadge of some sort. But I'd want to see more proof that it's the 4800. Does it have flying erase head?

[Blacktape]

Thanks for the input! Good to know those choices can produce good results with the right equipment.

You are absolutely correct about pinching pennies to the point of doing more harm than good. I've seen that too many times in my engineering career, hence why I wanted to ask this question before buying random machines off of eBay. I'm all about seeing what can be done per dollar without sacrificing the end result (too much).

By the way, I checked the user manual for the Philips VCR mentioned above and there is no mention of a flying erase head in its feature list. The back end of it looks identical to the JVC VCRs, so perhaps it's a clone of the HR-S3800U. The only major difference I can see between the 4800 and 3800 is the flying erase head so that probably means the circuits inside are almost identical. None are available on eBay right now that are worth buying but I will keep an eye out for one.

[BarryTheCrab]

I have not removed the cover to photo it yet, but I will.
If not identical certainly very close family.

[hodgey]

It might not be an exact clone of either. At least the European ones have some slight differences to jvc ones like the picture control being on a remote control button instead of the menu.

Also not to be confused with the VCR labeled Philips VR960 that was sold in Europe which is completely different with different mechanics and electronics and not a JVC collaboration thing.

[BarryTheCrab]

Here are some images of the Philips.

[BarryTheCrab]

Forum,
I will post images of the 4800, but to get back to the OP's original subject...
Would it not be of some use, long-term, to list Tier2 machines?
If all those competent S-VHS machines are though to be of little value/use, then they will be discarded.
All we will be left with is BMWs, Jaguars, and Bentleys. What is our world without a solid Chevy, Dependable Dodge, or an edgy Pontiac?

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryTheCrab

Would it not be of some use, long-term, to list Tier2 machines?
If all those competent S-VHS machines are though to be of little value/use, then they will be discarded.
All we will be left with is BMWs, Jaguars, and Bentleys. What is our world without a solid Chevy, Dependable Dodge, or an edgy Pontiac?

Something like this can be done, good idea. But it's not 2nd tier, more like 4th tier.

1 = best JVC/Panasonic with-TBC decks
2 = JVC/Panasonic with-TBC decks, but with fatal flaw potentials
3 = other decent S-VHS decks, with/without TBC, various quirks and limitations
4 = best non-TBC JVC S-VHS decks
5 = consumer decks that are decent
6 = consumer decks that are garbage

... or something like it, probably using the 1st-4th class system we use elsewhere.

But it's not 2nd, more like 3rd at best, maybe 4th depending on how scales are done.

[Blacktape]

Barry's post is the exact analogy I was thinking of (I'm a car guy in other worlds). I suspect more than a few archivers are looking for a dependable Dodge that will cover most of the BMW objectives but are more readily available. They only made so many BMW M5s back then, but many many more Dodges.

I'm hoping people can chime in on machines they've used and grade them per Lordsmurf's chart so we can expand our options as the ideal machines become scarce or unrepairable. One machine I can suggest is the Toshiba SV-771 tray-loading VCR. Compared to my Panasonic DMR-ES35V it has a very good picture and tracked any tape I threw at it, but unfortunately mine has developed a strange line scan defect that prevents me from using it.

[BarryTheCrab]

I am a LAZY bum! Butt here I am finally, posting the 4800 innards to compare to the Philips 960B.
Without looking myself to see, I throw myself upon the sympathy of the jury...I will peek AFTER I post.

[BarryTheCrab]

Hmm, they seem fairly similar.
I always considered the 960B to be a decent machine.
I have had both the JVC S-4800U and the Philips 960B refurbished, including caps.
Should I post MENU shots?

[Blacktape]

If you have both machines, what you should do is capture the output of each playing the same tape and then post a few-second snip of each. Then we can for sure determine if the output is the same or very similar.

[lordsmurf]

That's not really a test, as condition matters.

[hodgey]

If doing a comparison you want to turn at least off DSPC/Video calibration as that will cause the image to be affected by signal strength (and frequency profile that's programmed into the vcr if that differs).

The MENU is one thing that is going to be different as Philips variants have video setting on a remote button (Smart picture) instead of in the menu.

They look like very similar on the shots (sans different brand of some capacitors which shouldn't matter) and look they are based on the same mainboard PCB, would expect the output to be very similar with the same settings unless Philips changed them up a lot.

I have the PAL Philips VR1100 here (which is somewhat worn) but not the direct JVC analogue. Only have the basic JVC vhs hi-fi one from the same gen and SVHS+TBC ones from the earlier generation which I know had a different video IC. Granted all of them have pretty similar output characteristics sans the TBC stuff even then other than that the VR1100 and the HR-J681 which is from the same generation both have something screwy with the dropout compensation that the others don't.

As for the original question, I have several PAL suggestions but can't talk about what works for NTSC.