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  #1  
11-03-2012, 12:30 PM
Mr. Rey Mr. Rey is offline
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Canon and Nikon have their own products (filters, batteries, lenses, etc.). Are the non-OEM products worth considering (batteries, Hoya, B+W, Sigma, Tamron, etc.)?

Based on anybody's experience, which company(ies) should we stay away from if we choose to buy a non-OEM product?
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  #2  
11-03-2012, 12:49 PM
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kpmedia kpmedia is offline
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Oh wow .... great question.

Generally speaking, I'd almost say the question is upside down. It's best to doubt the quality of anything you don't immediately recognize for the legitimate fear that they've cut some corners. With filters, for example, you can get a piece of glass that loses sharpness and distorts the image in unwanted ways. I think it would almost be easier to name non-OEM companies that are safe, versus those that are not. And even then, how safe is up for debate.

Ritz Camera / Wolf Camera (same company), as an example, has historically offered lenses and accessories under the "Quantaray" brand. In the past, the lenses were always Sigma rebadges. The filters tended to vary, sometimes being Hoya, and sometimes not. There's also the question whether those rebadged products are A+ graded, or B+ rejects.

After trying to cut corners for years and years, I finally got the point where I only buy B+W filters. Those are ridiculous expensive, but I know I'm not losing any image quality. Plus it's sort of stupid to have a $1,000+ lens, only to be degraded by a $25-50 filter. I have a 82mm B+W filter that cost $150. I hated to spend that much, but I'd hate bad images even worse, so I just sucked it up and bought it. For anybody on a budget, buy the best that you can afford. The Hoya HMC and S-HMC filters are pretty good.

I would not bother with any non-OEM battery. I could recount a decade of my own dumb trials of trying to cut corners, only to end up for overpriced paperweights. That 50% battery sounds like a great deal until you learn it dies in about 25% the time of a real Nikon or Canon OEM batter.

The one area where I think non-OEM products are great is with flashes, tripods, remote flash accessories, and those cheap macro extended. Last year, I bought some JJC ("brand X, made in Hong Kong") flash triggers off of Amazon for about $40. These actually outperform the Nikon and Canon branded flash triggers! Some of the unofficial Japanese, Chinese and HK products are really good in this area. I pan to document my studio sometime next year, which is a low-cost setup.

The JJC triggers: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...0&linkCode=as2

Another good non-OEM item to get are the extension grips for the compact sized SLRs. With Nikon, for example, you can buy an official MB-D10 (D300, D700) grip for $250. Or you can get brand X model for less than half price. I've seen them go anywhere from $60 to $125, depending on features. And sometimes those non-OEM grips have more features and better feel/handling that the OEM models. Those are actually rather new -- I wish the non-OEMs had existed back when I outfitted all my backup bodies with grips back in 2007.

I think it really depends on the exact item you're after. Those non-OEM brands can be very hit-or-miss. Sigma, for example, makes both excellent lenses (example: 70-200 EX) and stinkers.

Even more important is where you buy gear. Only buy from Amazon.com, B&H, Adorama, Abe's of Maine, 17th St via Amazon. And a few other regional operations (Arlington, Central, Calumet, Canoga). I need to create a list someday. I get pretty much everything Amazon.com and B&H these days, and have for the past 5+ years now because the pricing and in-stock status is the best.

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  #3  
11-03-2012, 09:56 PM
Mr. Rey Mr. Rey is offline
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Great answer to the great question, KP.

You're right about asking which companies are safe instead of unsafe.

I agree that B+W has good lens filters, and that one shouldn't protect an expensive piece of glass (lens) with a cheap filter.

Extension grips! I forgot to mention them. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on them.

Would the 70-200 EX be the same quality for the Canon model?

Once again, I would agree that Amazon and B&H are good places to buy from.
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  #4  
11-06-2012, 04:45 AM
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kpmedia kpmedia is offline
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The image quality of the Sigma 70-200 EX is excellent.
I've shot with the Canon version, and it's just as clear as my Nikkor 80-200 f/2.8 (which is almost flawless, better than the Canon L glass of the same range, which I've also shot with). There's no issues with geometry, corners, or overall clarity. If you get bad shots with this lens, it's either a bad copy or user error. While Sigma has issues with "bad copies", this is one of the lenses where I've not heard any chatter.

The Sigma even looked good on a crop-body (50D), which tends to expose lens flaws even more than full-frame bodies.

The built quality is on par with Tokina, which is second only to Nikkor and Canon L build quality. It's not a junky consumer lens.

If that Sigma had existed some years ago, I would likely own it and not my current Nikkor.

The one issue with Sigma is that they're still pretty new to the whole "silent lens" phenomenon. Canon has been doing it since the mid 1980s, and Nikon since the late 1990s. It was almost 2010 before third parties like Sigma, Tokina and others joined the party. As such, sometimes the "silent" lens isn't always as quiet as the Nikon/Canon. As long as it doesn't sound like a power drill, I'm fine with it. I have non-silent lenses than make very little noise. A lot of it has to do with the camera body anyway, even for the motor-in-the-lens silent lenses. I guarantee my D1 (1999) and D3s (2009) perform wholly different.

I just bought a printer from Adorama tonight. It was $20 lower cost than Amazon, and B&H was higher still. I always check those three against one another, and go with the best deal. Generally speaking, it's Amazon.

Dusty needs to come post here. He has this focal measurement toolkit -- which I always forget the name of -- which helps you calibrate the lens with the body, to reduce/eliminate back-focusing. With these longer telephoto lenses, it's important to do. Most of the newer higher-end pro DSLRs have in-camera options to tweak setting to eliminate focusing errors. I tend to calibrate mine for the longer end, all the way to 200mm, because that's where it's used at least 80% of the time.

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  #5  
11-15-2012, 10:16 PM
Dusty.Doddridge Dusty.Doddridge is offline
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Ok, good discussion! I'll add some thoughts...

Batteries: Super important for me shooting out in cold and often remote landscapes. I've used Canon batteries and some non Canon batteries. All still alive and no difference in performance for me. The thing that matters most is your shooting style and temperature. I use Live View in combination with depth of field preview so I tend to run batteries down a bit faster than others but I always have several with me. And Live View with DOF preview is a serious game changer for landscape work but that's another discussion...!

Filters: I use a polarizer and ND filters preferring to get as much right in the field as possible. Plus some things you still can't solve in post...That's another discussion too...! But, I've had really good experience with the Singh Ray Filters and really like the Lee Filter Holder, also game changers.

Lenses: Well, to me lenses are the biggest investment and the most important part of the gear bag. I want to be shooting the best glass possible and I'm willing to wait to be able to save up for what I need. Easily one of the sharpest lenses in my bag is the Canon 70-200 2.8. I use it a lot along with the 16-35 quite a bit. Haven't compared with the Sigma glass but have a good friend who shoots some Sigma and have read/seen comparisons to the Canon side by side. I think the Canon wins in image quality but everybody has their own budget vs. quality formula.

The gadget that KP mentions is also important. Lens Align. Definitely check them out if you have a body that allows micro focus adjustment of lenses. It's a real eye opener for image quality and focus. But I used it and it solves front and back focus issues which results in much sharper images. Highly recommended.

Dusty Doddridge
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  #6  
11-16-2012, 07:31 AM
Mr. Rey Mr. Rey is offline
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Heeeey Dusty. Good to have your expertise and experience on this topic, too.

One thing that you and KP forgot to comment on was the battery grips.

The Canon 70-200 2.8 is a real good piece of glass. I'm getting the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM pretty soon, I can't wait! Do you use the 16-35 as a prime?
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  #7  
11-16-2012, 08:04 AM
Dusty.Doddridge Dusty.Doddridge is offline
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Hey Mr. Rey--

Yeah, you will love the 70-200. Great focal length and tack sharp! Awesome lens. Don't have the scoop on battery grips. I'm usually thinking about weight in the backcountry so the grip has less appeal for me. Although the extra controls shooting in portrait orientation would be nice, I always shoot from a tripod and always shoot with a cable release. I'm sure there is some type of analysis out there on battery life, but I suspect that 3 Canon batteries would last as long or longer than the battery grip and would weigh a lot less. If my style of shooting could benefit from a battery grip I would definitely go with the Canon grip. Just a comfort level thing as I would have a little more confidence in the Canon gear on something that important.

Good question on the 16-35mm lens. Great lens and my most used lens, for now. I like the wide angle perspective and it's also a very sharp lens. However, I'm shooting much more with the Tilt Shift 24mm and it is absolutely incredible. The image quality is stunning. I use the shifting quite a bit to stitch images together for hi-res large prints. If I could only shoot with one lens it would be the 24mm Tilt Shift, no contest...Just got back from a trip to Utah and got some great stuff, only wish I had shot more the the 24mm!

Dusty Doddridge
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  #8  
11-16-2012, 09:09 AM
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Shooting style weighs heavily on the decision to use a grip.

I need a grip because I probably shoot more handheld verticals than I do horizontals, and the elbow-in-the-air (open armpit) method is tiring. Outside of a studio setting, I almost never use a tripod. At most, I'll use a monopod when the lens is heavy, and the event is long.

Sports shooting often means using that machine-gun shutter. It sucks a battery dry in very little time.

Because timing is everything, I don't always have the luxury of time to change batteries.

The more you can cram onto the body, the better your mobility at an event. Having bags, backpacks, etc, just introduces another level of stuff you have to monitor. Pockets are generally full of lenses, meters, cell phones, flashes -- and in the old days, film. Batteries in the pocket means using space that can't be used by something else. Sometimes you find yourself in a cramped space -- and trying to open doors in a camera, or unload/swap with stuff in your pockets, is a nightmare.

The weight of the camera is a positive consideration for me -- it helps with the handheld stability. The lighter the camera, the more I can shake it. And because of this weight, I'm more "hands on" with the camera, to help steady it. As a male, my hands need some space, and the grip is the only way to really add real estate onto a handheld camera. The camera sits in my hands more than I hold it. More like a bowling ball, and less like a classic point-and-shoot.

If I go backpacking, use the camera to "take pictures" (not photos) of a vacation, plan to tripod mount it at all times, etc, then I remove the grip.

These days I shoot almost exclusively with higher-end bodies like the Nikon D3, D3s, or D4, which are already full-sized bodies. Only the compact SLR backups have the grips. If I owned a Canon 5D or 6D, I've probably be using it heavily for movie modes, meaning tripod mounting, and no need for a grip.

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