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  #1  
08-14-2021, 08:41 PM
servese43 servese43 is offline
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Hi,
Following lordsmurf's advice, I've got myself a Datavideo DVK-100 to be used in conjunction with either a DMR-EH50 or RDR-HXD870, depending on the quality of the tape I'm transferring. Now in a few other threads lordsmurf has recommended removing the fan from this unit because the fan can cause noisy video. I was wondering whether removing the fan could cause any heat-related issues, and whether the issue with the noisy output could be avoided through something like shielding that won't cause any heat-related issues.

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  #2  
08-14-2021, 08:57 PM
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It's vented metal case, and easily better than the non-fan TBC-1000 case. So, not really heat issues. The chips on the DVK don't really get all the hot, either.

External shielding won't do anything, it's internal board leakage.

The fan is often soldered on, so fingers cross you get a simple plug type (those exist).

You'll spend a lot of time reading the manual. Setting this thing up to act as a TBC is not really straighforward. I always preset it, then lock the controls, so you can't screw it up.

The proc amp can be nice, but you need to read the manual.
And I purposely don't tell you how to unlock, because it's also in the manual! If you RTFM, you'll know what to do.

There are some other pitfalls of an unknown/untested DVK, but those will be obvious when using the controls (and the unit is bad). For example, I'd not get anywhere near that Russian unit on eBay, which has literally been there since 2019 (now 2021). The price keeps getting lowered, and I'm sure that some sucker will buy it eventually. Don't be that sucker.

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  #3  
08-14-2021, 09:31 PM
servese43 servese43 is offline
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I got the manual from manualslib and I've had a good read of it. I'm pretty sure that in order to get TBC functionality you need have BG IN as the input (No chroma key processing) and for the output, you need the "Output" output, not BG OUT (That's for "monitoring" BG input, so you'll probably get no TBC or any other kind of processing.)

I bought my DVK from a seller in Sydney, who has 100% positive feedback. The unit was put through a thorough testing regime ("when I plugged it in, the lights turned on" )

Anyway I'll have a look at it later today to see if it has a fan that can just be unplugged with no de-soldering required (fingers crossed!)
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  #4  
08-14-2021, 09:35 PM
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Not BG IN.
Not BG OUT.

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  #5  
08-14-2021, 10:58 PM
servese43 servese43 is offline
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So is it CAM1/2 IN (with chroma key turned off on the front panel) and Output OUT then?

Also I've opened it up and luckily for me I've got one with a fan that can simply be unplugged.
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  #6  
08-14-2021, 11:22 PM
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Because there are variations of this unit, it's never identical. It's always CAM1/2 in, but the output can enter a bypass mode (signal bypassed TBC) if on the wrong output. It can be CAM1/2 OUT, or it can be OUTPUT. To prevent confusion, I also block the wrong ports, the unit only has a sole in and out, dummy friendly operation, like the TBC-1000. Testing is required, and it can be a PITA.

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  #7  
08-14-2021, 11:54 PM
servese43 servese43 is offline
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Just tested CAM1/2 IN, CAM1/2 OUT and OUTPUT, and video passes out the other end of the DVK for all of those ports (For BG IN I just get a turquoise screen.) Guess I'll have to do some test captures of the same part of a tape fed through different outputs in order to find out which one actually filters the video. Finally, would adding some passive heatsinks to the chips on my DVK-100 prolong the unit's lifespan after I remove the fan or am I just being way too paranoid about heat? Also why is there a fan there in the first place? Are there any circumstances in which it would be required or is its inclusion just a poor design choice from datavideo?

Last edited by servese43; 08-15-2021 at 12:31 AM.
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  #8  
08-15-2021, 05:23 AM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by servese43 View Post
I bought my DVK from a seller in Sydney
Reading that, I'd be doubly suspicious about just removing the fan - if you're in 'straya and it's routinely 'blooody hot' wherever you're working I would exercise caution.

I've spent many years designing and repairing industrial electronics, it's rare something is just fitted that serves no practical purpose. If it's distorting the image that's a separate issue but just removing a fan on the grounds that 'the chips don't get that hot' with no further qualification I would treat with suspicion if you've not got a fantastically well-designed workspace and adequate extraneous cooling.

Remember the usual caveats about PSU's too, they don't like it too warm.
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  #9  
08-15-2021, 05:53 AM
servese43 servese43 is offline
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Yeah, I'm also kind of thinking "the fan must be there for a reason". But at the same time it's definitely possible that the fan is only required under certain specific circumstances or that the fan was included by mistake. Anyway I'll wait and see what lordsmurf has to say about this because he definitely knows his stuff about these units (and video capturing in general.)

Also I think I'll have to be strategic with my DVK usage and avoid using it during summer and spring!
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  #10  
08-15-2021, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by servese43 View Post
Yeah, I'm also kind of thinking "the fan must be there for a reason". But at the same time it's definitely possible that the fan is only required under certain specific circumstances or that the fan was included by mistake. Anyway I'll wait and see what lordsmurf has to say about this because he definitely knows his stuff about these units (and video capturing in general.)

Also I think I'll have to be strategic with my DVK usage and avoid using it during summer and spring!
Probably wise to consider, I'm in "the old dart" so anything above about 20 Celsius here and we all collapse in heat exhaustion but it is definitely a design specification and what ostensibly isn't an issue in one part of the world may be a considerable one in another.

Also, PSUs may vary by market, a classic example for VCRs is the Philips V2000 units which were designed to run on 220VAC but units imported into the UK ran appreciably warm (case temperature of over 50C) as it's not uncommon to find 250-260VAC at our sockets, it was still in the machine spec' but bloody hell did those machines run hot in the UK and had quite foreshortened service lives when it came to power components. Transformer taps could be moved (an irrelevant discussion here) but the short version is that machines generally will not have components fitted for no good reason.

It's generally not enough to say "the case looks alright" or "the chips don't get that warm" - what works for one here might be a different case in a different part of the world. That's why commercial designers often have teams dedicated to the regionalisation of products.

@Lordsmurf ?
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  #11  
08-15-2021, 06:48 PM
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People add too many fans to things, but usually all that does is create noise or wind tunnels.

Managing heat is an art. When you start to move air, airflow is needed.

Let's look at the DVK. The tiny fan doesn't move much air at all. There are no vents at the front or sides, so no airflow can be pulled across the chips or boards. What you do have in back is a tiny vent, opposite the fan, and air is merely whisked across the back. The back of the DVK-100 has a shelf, and merely rakes across the shelf before being re-expelled. Nothing inside is cooled whatsoever.

And because the vents are just a few slits, and smaller than the fan, the fan doesn't get enough intake. It struggles. It makes noise, and it wears out fast.

Small fans are well-known to be a problem, both cheap and expensive. The DVK fan is no different, and most often leaks interference noise into the video signal.

This unit was designed by a moron, not an engineer, nor even somebody with very basic engineering knowledge like myself.

To top it all off, the DVK-200, latter TBC-5000 revisions, and some other "blue box" DataVideo items had no fans. So this ridiculous worthless no-airflow noisy fan issue was obviously addressed by DataVideo in later years.

With the fan no longer running, at least now ambient heat can escape from the vents. Both the slit vent, and the vent left by the removed fan.

Remove the fan.

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  #12  
08-15-2021, 06:53 PM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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I can do nothing but urge the OP to exercise caution in this....

I think there is some fundamental misunderstanding of product design and economics taking place here, coupled with gross 'beer garden physics' of fluid dynamics.
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  #13  
08-15-2021, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobustReviews View Post
I think there is some fundamental misunderstanding of product design and economics taking place here.
You remind me of those people who are afraid of warranty stickers. (FYI, in most places, those mean nothing, even illegal. Oddly, UK is behind the times here, there must be some deep pocketed lobbyists there, to keep their consumer "in line".)

What "economics" could you possibly refer to?
Do you refer to the idea that different locations got different versions? On this item, false.

What product design? I explained that pretty thoroughly in my above reply.

Have you ever used the DVK?

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  #14  
08-15-2021, 07:05 PM
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It's probably a good job it's my work that's in thousands of commercial products, not yours with replies like that.

Do you really want to dance on that one?

Please say yes, pretty please.....
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  #15  
08-15-2021, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobustReviews View Post
It's probably a good job it's my work that's in thousands of commercial products, not yours with replies like that.
Do you really want to dance on that one?
Please say yes, pretty please.....
I have no idea what you're stating or asking here.

And it seems off-topic anyway.

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  #16  
08-15-2021, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I have no idea what you're stating or asking here.

And it seems off-topic anyway.
It's very simple.

I'm staring there are probably a host of design factors as to why a fan may have been included.

I can't tell the OP what to do, it's unlikely to be a safety issue but one that may foreshorten the lifespan of expensive equipment.

I had a job for several years which as a professions included design and failure analysis of electronic equipment, mostly analytical - my trade initially as a metrologist with a specialisation in temperature and dynamics before moving in to analytics for decades. I also have adjunct electrical qualifications and have designed commercial products in the analytical sphere.

I'm just saying (repeatedly) to exercise caution.

Your turn?
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  #17  
08-15-2021, 07:43 PM
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As suspected, off-topic. Interesting, but still off-topic. None of that has any bearing on this exact item, the DataVideo DVKs.

If you're that scared/worried about heat, still remove the fan, but open the lid as well.

Lifespan is generally an issue of (1) no heatsinks, (2) power over/underage. The fix = always use a UPS, add your own heatsinks to the hotter chips. I always suggest UPS, but on these exact units heatsinks are optional, and the fan is worthless and a problem-maker.

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  #18  
08-15-2021, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
As suspected, off-topic. Interesting, but still off-topic. None of that has any bearing on this exact item, the DataVideo DVKs.

If you're that scared/worried about heat, still remove the fan, but open the lid as well.

Lifespan is generally an issue of (1) no heatsinks, (2) power over/underage. The fix = always use a UPS, add your own heatsinks to the hotter chips. I always suggest UPS, but on these exact units heatsinks are optional, and the fan is worthless and a problem-maker.
Vaccines, Trump, British warranty law....

And a thread asking about removing a fan with a fair minded reply about using caution is 'off topic'?

From somebody who a quick Google search has posted many times that "only qualifications matter", would you like the archived links?

Try it yourself.
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  #19  
08-15-2021, 08:39 PM
servese43 servese43 is offline
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I don't think removing the fan will be any different in Australia because I'll likely have the air-con on during the summer anyway. Also this is probably a dumb question, but should I unscrew the fan and remove it from the case or should I just unplug the pins and tuck away the cables to the side, leaving the fan in the case?
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  #20  
08-15-2021, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by servese43 View Post
I don't think removing the fan will be any different in Australia because I'll likely have the air-con on during the summer anyway. Also this is probably a dumb question, but should I unscrew the fan and remove it from the case or should I just unplug the pins and tuck away the cables to the side, leaving the fan in the case?
Later is probably the wisest move if you proceed.

Leave in situ if you can, as said this is unlikely to be safefy issue but one with potential for long term damage of the components, how you feel about that is up to you but there's no reason beyond that not to in my opinion.
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