Choosing VCR model to repair, easy, good documentation?

[ge0dude]

Hi, I've learned so much here over the years and I've just registered for the first time to ask a question. I'd like to restore VHS tapes however I'm on a tight budget, but I'm decent with electronics. I'm wondering which decks you guys would choose simply based on available repair information on the internet? I'm hoping to get really good at one or 2 models to the point where I could restore these models. The more well documented the better (common issues, etc.)

I'm looking for a VCR with a TBC. I'd rather choose a model that doesn't command a premium, that I can pick up for under $200 in untested condition (Hopefully under $100 after putting in an offer.)

I'm okay with choosing a model that's a more niche use (only good for one tape speed, etc.) Since I'd like more than one deck eventually, my primary goal at first is to learn how to restore a VHS deck.

I feel comfortable recapping and I have a hot air reflow station if necessary.

Any and all suggestions are welcome!

Thanks.

[aramkolt]

That'd be a little bit of a unicorn, but the HR-S 7x00 JVCs and possibly the JVC SR-MV series do show up occasionally for under $200 in non-working condition on ebay. I'm assuming you are in NTSC land, but that'd be models like 7600U, 7800U, 7900U (does not have a dynamic drum which is good from a reliability standpoint). The main "restore" needed on these is usually just disabling the dynamic drum and cleaning the mode switch and tape path.

SR-MV's can require extensive recapping (main issue you'll see first is that they just say "loading" when you try to power them on), though sometimes even extensive recapping won't get them out of the "loading" part of boot as I believe to some sort of permanent downstream damage can occur on the digital board after the power supply caps go bad for long enough. SR-MVs also won't work if the DVD drive has issues as it does some self checks on the drive before completing the boot sequence. You're mostly out of luck (without obtaining more machines) if either the digital board or DVD drive is bad on an SR-MV.

The 7x00 JVCs are probably the most well-documented and most mechanical parts outside of the drum can be taken from less expensive decks that didn't have TBCs from around the same time period in the 3x00 or 4x00 line.

Only thing I'd mention is that the TBCs on the 7x00 series seem to add jitter a fair amount of the time, so you end up having to turn the TBC off for some tapes.

Another option would be the SR-VS30U, those occasionally can come up for under $200. DV drives in those almost never work, but you don't need it for VHS use and it'll work with the DV drive completely removed or disconnected. These are mostly the same as the 7x00 series except that their TBCs usually don't add jitter. They don't have dynamic drums, so that's one less thing to worry about as well.

You could get one of the Panasonic Japanese models that have TBCs. The model number that comes to mind is the NV-SV1, but there are quite a few others. You would want to get one with a remote to make sure you can access all of the features. Considerations for these is that you ideally would step the AC input voltage down to 100VAC instead of 120VAC which you can do with a VARIAC or a travel voltage adapter. Most people probably just give them 120VAC anyway and hope the power supply doesn't get roasted, but I'd personally step the voltage down with a Variac since you do have precise control of the voltage. The Amazon 120V to 100V adapter/transformer I got actually stepped it down to more like 110V which I'm sure the machine can tolerate because it is within the 10% fluctuation that AC power supplies expect, but a small Variac can be found for usually the same price or less. There isn't too much repair info on the NV-SV1s, they just tend to work and usually the Japanese models are already tested working or not when you buy them. They do tend to contain a lot of ELNA branded capacitors that I don't particularly like as that brand often likes to go bad, but I haven't seen an NV-SV1 with obviously bad capacitors, so could be that they used a better series in those maybe. Other thing to keep in mind is that everything will be in Japanese as far as menus and buttons, but it's pretty straightforward to figure out what the TBC is and I think it also has a separate 3D noise reduction feature that you can turn on and off separately of the TBC which is fairly unique among VCRs. Purists wouldn't generally recommend turing on noise reduction, but if it helps the image significantly on certain tapes, you can go for it, or do a capture with and then one without the noise reduction. As far as the Japanese language, you can just use a phone app that does live translation overlays with your phone camera until you figure out which options you want to enable and after that you probably won't need to change settings very often. On these, most you'll likely need to do if you get one that already works is to clean the tape path every so often.

AG1980's can sometimes be found for cheap, but they won't meet your criteria of being straightforward to refurbish, not even close.

Couple medical VCRs with TBCs (SP speed only):

Sony SVO-9500MD - not as much info out there on these, but they are SP tape speed only. This one might have an hours counter within the menus, can't remember. It uses the same mechanism as the SVO-5600/5800 which is probably Sony's best pro machine (but isn't in this price range - also SP only). May have an hours counter within the menu so you know "how used" it is. There are a couple of repair videos on YouTube for some common issues, but I don't think either of the two I've worked on had those specific issues and just needed some mechanism maintenance.

Mitsubishi HS-MD3000U is another medical VCR that I believe is SP only, but it has some interesting individual controls over luma and chroma noise reduction that others do not. They also have a digital hours counter. The three I've played with had a max number of hours of around 400, but the other two were under 100 hours, so I don't think they tended to make very long recordings when they were used for ultrasounds. They do contain SMT capacitors, but I haven't seen them have electrical issues. It uses the same mechanism as the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U which can play all tape speeds, but usually can't be found in this price range, lacks the hours counter, and doesn't have as good of build quality on the electronics side (the MD model cost something like 5x as much and it shows on the inside).

[ge0dude]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply, I appreciate it very much. Some of these models are priced pretty well. With camcorders I know buying Japanese leaves you with no English menu options. I would imagine the same is true for VCR's but I'll have to do a bit more research to find out for sure. Thank you again for all the options and insight.

[lordsmurf]

Welcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ge0dude

I'm on a tight budget, but I'm decent with electronics. I'm wondering which decks you guys would choose simply based on available repair information on the internet?
I'm looking for a VCR with a TBC. I'd rather choose a model that doesn't command a premium, that I can pick up for under $200 in untested condition (Hopefully under $100 after putting in an offer.)
I'm okay with choosing a model that's a more niche use (only good for one tape speed, etc.) Since I'd like more than one deck eventually, my primary goal at first is to learn how to restore a VHS deck.
I feel comfortable recapping and I have a hot air reflow station if necessary.
Any and all suggestions are welcome!
Thanks.

It's really more about per-unit issues than model. Just stick to the suggested list, and you should be fine model-wise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

SR-MV's can require extensive
sometimes even extensive recapping won't get them out of the "loading" part of boot as I believe to some sort of permanent downstream damage can occur on the digital board after the power supply caps go bad for long enough.

I refurb'd these for years, but time has not been kind to them. Current un-refurb'd units (especially from eBay randoms) may stay that way forever. I'm no longer touching these. (I sold off my last batch of "refurb candidates", due to health/family reasons, to another member here. I've really not seen any candidates for about a year now. Just overpriced broken garbage, from sellers that must be sniffing glue.)

Quote:

though SR-MVs also won't work if the DVD drive has issues

Not always true, there are factors involved.

Quote:

Only thing I'd mention is that the TBCs on the 7x00 series seem to add jitter a fair amount of the time, so you end up having to turn the TBC off for some tapes.

I've never noticed that, not in 30 years. No more than any of line TBC.

Quote:

Couple medical VCRs with TBCs (SP speed only):
Sony SVO
Mitsubishi HS-MD3000U

No. Junk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ge0dude

buying Japanese leaves you with no English menu options. I would imagine the same is true for VCR's

Also true.

[aramkolt]

The added vertical jitter of the 7x00 TBC I've seen is with commercially produced tapes (with macrovision) since those are what I use to test them after refurb. Might not be an issue with home recordings that lack macrovision though. Would be interesting to hear from other users who use a 7600/7800/7900 for both commercial and home recording playback and may have seen this effect. Could also be my monitors are sensitive to the output (but somehow aren't with all of the other JVC models) but maybe with actual captures it isn't there.

Japanese menus aren't a big deal with live translation phone apps and once the settings are the way you want, you really don't have to touch them after that anyway if you leave the TBC and DNR in the state that you want.

I have yet to really put the Mitsubishi HS-MD3000U through its paces, but visually (on the inside) it is among the top I've ever seen for build quality. It was also released late in VHS's life, so it should have all of the technology advancements present given the premium price point and intended use-case in medical imaging. I can say the image looks great just on usual playback, though I haven't done captures from one yet. Main obvious deficiency is being SP only, but it otherwise seems like solid performer for now. I guess when I get to my comprehensive testing of all VCRs containing a TBC to include WVHS/DVHS models, I'll know for sure where it stands in the lineup playback-wise.

[BarryTheCrab]

Both my 7800s work fine, an older one and a very “new” unused unit.
On the rare occasion the TBC adds jitter I try the stabilizer, which actually shocks me when it works!
The last resort is of course an ES-10/15 but that’s not exactly what we’re looking at here.

[ge0dude]

I'm back. And I chose a deck that's probably much more difficult to work on, but I scored a major deal. (The seller spent more shipping it than he made on it.)

A Panasonic AG-7750

I'm aware of many of it's drawbacks but I think it could be useful for professionally made tapes, and it's possible it has pass-through functionality for the TBC, which could also be useful.

I was able to score such a deal obviously because they are not the most desired units, but for a few niche situations I think it could be beneficial.

I have reason to believe that the unit I chose has never attempted to be repaired (at least in the modern era.) It belonged to an institution and was pulled out of storage. It powers on (untested.) It's missing the vhs slot front plate, but if I look very carefully in one of the pictures, I can just barely make it out on the inside of the deck. (I can see the S-VHS symbol, barely) -So I can hope that it worked fine until it was no longer needed by the institution or the slot cover got stuck inside. I'm sure a full recap might be necessary judging by other Panasonics of the same era.

What do you guys think?

At the end of the day, it's one of the cooler looking VHS decks I have seen, so at least it has that going for it.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ge0dude

but I scored a major deal. (The seller spent more shipping it than he made on it.)
A Panasonic AG-7750

Cheap for a reason.

Quote:

and it's possible it has pass-through functionality for the TBC,

No.

Quote:

I was able to score such a deal obviously because they are not the most desired units, but for a few niche situations I think it could be beneficial.

Not really. It's better than consumer fodder, but it's not at all suggested gear.

Quote:

I have reason to believe that the unit I chose has never attempted to be repaired (at least in the modern era.) It belonged to an institution and was pulled out of storage.

I would not conclude that -- especially because it comes from an org.

Quote:

What do you guys think?
At the end of the day, it's one of the cooler looking VHS decks I have seen, so at least it has that going for it.

I think you got a decent deck to learn S-VHS VCR repair. After you learn on this one, then you'll be ready for an actual recommended quality deck.

Honestly, this is probably for the best. The community is losing too much quality gear lately, largely due to idiots that have a deep case of Dunning-Kruger effect. They ruin gear, not repair it. Then it gets put back on eBay/Facebook "for parts" (or even "used", with a clueless "as-is, no returns" statement), to pass it along to the next sucker.

I think you have a nice learning project now.

[ge0dude]

Thanks a lot for the response, thanks for bursting my bubble gently haha. At the end of the day I'm happy with it because yes this is a learning project. I would hate to permanently ruin a highly desirable deck on my journey, so this is probably for the best, I agree.

And it's a very attractive piece of gear and will look great in my rack.

After I feel like I've learned a fair amount, my next deck would probably be an SR-VS30U or an AG-1980. I once saw an AG-1980-P pop up for $80 shipped in my (3rd party) alerts. I should've nabbed it. It was gone within ~10 minutes of posting. Never saw a deal like that again.

-- merged --

Breaking news, (this seems like a great deal to someone interested)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/157014833557

JVC HR-S7800U, untested from estate sale.

He had it listed for $200, he changed it to $175 after I lowballed him.

Just this morning (10 minutes ago) he sends an offer for $125.

So if anyone wants it, $125 shipped seems like an amazing deal, get it while it lasts! (I really wish I received this deal before I bought the AG-7750!)

[lordsmurf]

I would not buy that. The 7800 is too iffy, especially for eBay parts/repair. Waste of money is likely.

[aramkolt]

Never worked on the 7750 personally, but if you were looking for a project, you found one! You have to hope that it doesn't contain ceramic daughter boards as those really aren't repairable if something has eaten though the traces on that type of board as the traces are painted-on and can't be soldered to. I'm not sure if the 7750 contains SMT caps, but I'd start there and also look at the power supply regardless. 7750 is also likely SP only as you probably knew when buying. Where it has the advantage over a 1980 is that the daughter cards appear to be easily accessed for removal whereas you have to do a lot more disassembly to get at anything in the AG1980. Makes the refurb a bit more frustrating on the 1980 because you can't really test any of your work until you have the whole thing re-assembled.

There aren't a whole lot of comparisons of the 7750 out there, but here's one against the SVO-5800:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Liik0rdTto8

You can see at about 50 seconds that there's quite a bit of vertical jitter in the 7750 which is easily visible towards the top of the screen that is not there with the SVO-5800. You can also see some horizontal jitter of the text (which we know shouldn't move) in the 7750 around 1:30. To be fair, the 5800 shows some slight top tearing/flagging at about 2:57 that is also there to a somewhat different degree on the 7750. The 5800 in that instance goes from "blinking" into correcting vs not correcting it which makes it more noticable than a constant skew like an uncorrected player might have.

I also suspect the output of both machines is actually quite a bit sharper than what you see in the video, probably a side effect of youtube compression and the capture method. What sort of makes it harder to judge is that they aren't exactly frame-synced so you'll always see some clashing frames at the center division line.

Just as a sort of side note, I've asked MISU (guy who compared the 5800 to the 7750) what his favorite VCR in terms of playback quality and stability is and he's tested/worked on some of the highest end and most obscure machines that never made it outside of Asia as shown in his youtube videos (along with recommended models here), and his go-to is still the SVO-5800 despite it not getting much love around here.

[ge0dude]

Thanks for all the information guy, it is greatly appreciated.

I got it in the mail a few days back, and the thing is massive. I know i saw pictures of it online, and i did know it was between 7 and 8 inches tall... I just wasn't prepared for how huge this behemoth is... it's the size of a full sized 4u rack server... haha. It's much deeper than i realized. I'll actually have to put it in a different rack than I planned on, and I'll have to rethink the positioning of my whole capture setup. at least the analog side. The digital side I can stretch across the room, so no big deal.


*edit*
Also, I've found some posts that seem to confirm TBC passthrough on the AG-7750. I guess if i get it fixed, it will be a surprise to find out the truth!

[aramkolt]

That'd be interesting if the TBC does work on passthrough, though the only tape decks I've really heard of that being a thing for would be some of the later Betacam decks in terms of analog to analog options. Hi8/D8 can do it, but they output DV rather than analog when done that way. Even so, I doubt it'd have a line-TBC-like function and may act like more of a frame sync. Do you have links to the posts about TBC passthrough, not that I need to acquire more machines haha.

[ge0dude]

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...ag-7750-a.html

Here it is, 2nd to last post i think, post #11.

[aramkolt]

Hmm. "Bypass" would typically mean that the TBC is turned off if I understand correctly. Sounds like he's using the proc amp part which is used to adjust luma/chroma/black level/hue usually. I'm kind of surprised that the proc amp part operates in bypass mode, but could be that the TBC and proc amp operate independently I suppose.

Could be he is just using the word "bypass" in place of "passthrough" maybe. Seems odd to use the 7750 when the Detailer III has many of the same controls that he was also using. Haven't actually tried it, but most of the detail is in the luma anyway and you could just put the luma component of S-Video through a Detailer III and just not put the chroma wire through the Detailer III. It's possible that could add some YC delay, but I don't know if it'd be significant enough to notice.

[ge0dude]

Yeah I'll have to find out myself when I fix it.

And that's some great info about the Detailer III, as It offers a cheaper solution for s-video detail adjustment. I think my final solution might be a Leitch DPS-575 for SDI workflow and proc-amp adjustment. But we'll see how it goes.

[lordsmurf]

Video definitions:

Bypass = routed around, therefore no effects applied

Passthrough (1) = routed through, but no effects applied
Passthrough (2) = routed through, with effects applied

^ Clear as mud.

We want "with effects", and in the analog tape capture world, that definition has took (and mostly because of me, in the past 20 years). ES10/15 has "passthrough", because the line TBC effect is applied to all input routed to output.

Some old manuals, or old/wrong people, refer to passthrough #1, and too many people assume it's for #2.

So not only do images/photos/"pictures" not matter, sometimes even words are worthless. What matters is replicable performance.