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07-20-2020, 04:00 PM
Artex Artex is offline
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Hey all-

So I was another person that got bitten by a bad (i.e. newer) AVT-8710 devices with the ghosting, etc. I purchased a known/verified Keywest BigVoodoo BVTBC10 thinking it would be a drop-in replacement, but I am having nothing but problems and am looking for some guidance here per the recommendation of Lord Smurf.

My previously working set up has not changed other than the TBC swap:

VCR is an S-VHS JVC HR-S8700U
Capture Device is an ATI TV Wonder USB now running through S-Video to the BVTBC10

I've attached a video showing the glitching and it happens in capture mode, regardless of the tape actually playing. So in other words, even on the blue VCR screen showing in the capture area of virtualdub, it still glitches.

Things I've tried-

* Multiple 32-bit versions of VirtualDub
* Different USB Ports
* Different S-Video Cables
* Updated Windows Drivers
* Enabled/Disabled the internal TBC/NR on the VCR
* Tried different VHS tapes

Any thoughts?


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 2020-07-20_15-47-56.mp4 (2.70 MB, 28 downloads)
File Type: mp4 2020-07-20_16-06-53.mp4 (2.07 MB, 18 downloads)

Last edited by Artex; 07-20-2020 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Attachment added
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  #2  
07-20-2020, 04:20 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Well, this was one of my units, and I did extensively stress tests, burn-in tests, because I couldn't believe what I was seeing. A BVTBC that was actually good???!!! Somebody had been bugging me for months, so I relented, acquired a unit, re-cased it. After tests, I bought up the few siblings, and a lucky few members here got them, mostly with workflows. The serials pointed to early production models, and it made sense given the board chips. It has some green-era Cypress chips (CMDs, mid AVT-8710), along with some others like an Analog Device and TI TVP. I kept one for myself. It performs as well as my rarer 3rd-gen TBC-3000s, which I consider near perfection. I'd never seen a good Big Voodoo before, and doubt I will again.

So I don't see how it could be the TBC at fault here.

You need to calm down, go slowly, no knee-jerk reactions. Baby steps, process of elimination.

- What happens with a simple JVC blue screen, and scrolling through menus?
- What happens with a retail VHS tape? (with or without copy protection)

The error in that video is NOT anything at all like bad Cypress chips. It looks like VirtualDub preview issues, which I've run into a lot lately, as I'm testing every capture card in my possession with every VirtualDub version. Because I've found that some cards function better in specific versions, with specific settings.

I'm never swayed by the "it was working fine" statement. We all have things that "poof", and quit working for zero reason (that we can find, at least). The 2nd system here likes to forget it has hardware attached at reboot. No reason. The computer apparently just wants to screw with me. Jiggle this, replug that, reboot a few times -- and it works again.

You should eliminate the capture card entirely. Preview to TV.

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  #3  
07-20-2020, 04:33 PM
Artex Artex is offline
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I have attached two more videos - a retail Beastie Boys tape from 1987 as well as the menus. Just for kicks, I did the same tests using an alternate PC and can observe the same behavior with the unit - all else the same and using VirtualDub 1.9.11.


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 2020-07-20_16-29-00.mp4 (3.55 MB, 18 downloads)
File Type: mp4 2020-07-20_16-30-31.mp4 (7.67 MB, 8 downloads)
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  #4  
07-20-2020, 04:58 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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There's something wrong, and that's not how it was behaving here with me, for months. It still strongly looks to be capture device conflicts.

Is that the ATI 600 USB?
Again, try to TV, remove the capture card from equation.
VCR> TBC > TV

Maybe the unit power supply was damaged in transit, but far less likely.

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  #5  
07-20-2020, 06:51 PM
Artex Artex is offline
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Alrighty - a little bit of the proverbial foot in mouth here admittedly. I've spent the last few hours doing some testing. Here's what I've done in the following order:
  • Swapped S-Video cable from back of VCR -> Input of BVTBC10 [RESULT: Same flickering]
  • Swapped S-Video cable from output of BVTBC10 -> ATI TV Wonder USB 600 [RESULT: Same flickering]
  • Swapped black/previously problematic AVT-8710 in the BVTBC10's place [RESULT: Same flickering...GRRR]
  • Swapped BVTBC10 with black/previously problematic AVT-8710 [RESULT: Same flickering...GRRR
  • Connected Yellow RCA cable from output of BVTBC10 -> ATI TV Wonder USB 600 [RESULT: Same flickering, and after a few seconds of video, the PC blue-screened]
  • Found my spare/backup ATI TV Wonder USB 600 and swapped with the existing, running through all the same tests [RESULT: Same flickering on S-Video and Composite, BSOD after a few seconds of recording on composite capture)
  • Reran all the same tests on my secondary PC [RESULT: Same flickering on S-Video and Composite, BSOD after a few seconds of recording on composite capture)]

    (At this point I'm sweating)

    I disconnected both the BVTBC10 and VCR, and ran both downstairs to my main TV (a Sony Bravia from 2008 which as S-Video (woot!)
  • I connected up JUST the VCR via my TV's S-Video IN [RESULT: VHS Tape plays fine]
  • I connected up JUST the VCR via my TV's Composite (Yellow) IN [RESULT: VHS Tape plays fine]

    VCR is OK! (Deep Breath)
  • I connected the VCR using S-Video OUT to BVTBC10 IN, and from the BVTBC10 OUT to the Sony Bravia S-Video IN [RESULT: VHS Tape plays fine]

    BVTBC10 is OK (Deep Breath)

Sooo.. I think we have a Windows 10 issue here. All my PCs are running the latest 2004 build and all exhibit the same problem with this ATI TV Wonder USB capture device. I know that the previous build of Windows I had on here - I believe 1909 - worked fine with this device. I keep reading that there are numerous issues with this build of Windows 10 and this is the first one I've come across myself.

Is anyone else seeing capturing issues on Windows 10 build 2004 with the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB or other capture device?

LS - sincerest apologies to you!
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  #6  
07-20-2020, 09:25 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Ah, Windows 10 strikes again! (Hey, that rhymes! )

I knew it had to be a capture preview issue (capture card side of workflow, with hardware/software/drivers). It just looked like it, as I've seen that many times myself in my recent testing. I've never seen a TBC issue like that. I have seen VCR issues like that, but you'd know if the VCR was acting up (something mechanical would seem off, likely noises).

This is a relief to me.
I kept racking my brain, trying to think of what I could have missed.

Just remember, with video ... patience. Never knee-jerk that XYZ isn't working. Rarely is it that easy. Process of eliminations take time (sometimes gear). Very often, it's not as bad as you think. I think we all jump to conclusions with pricey gear, already somewhat on edge about the costs. But it may be something far more boring, and easily reparable, such as power supplies, software/OS, or just simple cleaning.

If it makes you feel any better, I could not resolve a TBC error myself. After giving up, I sent it to a forum member here. He saw rust that I missed, cleaned the contacts, and it worked. I probably still owe him a favor for that save.

Time for a new thread about the ATI 600 in Win10, that build version. jwillis is sure to participate.

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  #7  
07-22-2020, 01:35 PM
Artex Artex is offline
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So it seems MS broke the driver for the ATI TV Wonder USB 600 in Windows 10, build 2004. I received my Diamond VC500 USB Capture Device and got the Windows 10 drivers up and running without issue. I fired it up and low and behold, no glitching in Virtualdub. I switched the source back to the ATI TV Wonder USB 600 and the glitching came back. I've attached a video of the Beastie Boys capture running from the S-Video Out of the VCR, into the BVTBC10 and finally to the S-Video input of the Diamond VC500. You can see the VCR menus are clean as well.


Attached Files
File Type: mkv Capture-1.mkv (6.37 MB, 29 downloads)
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