Is the AVT-8710 TBC my problem?

[motivus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbehr91

I may be one of the few members here with both a Hi8 VCR (EV-S7000) and a camcorder (TRV85). I agree with Lordsmurf that the camcorder is better. I can post some samples later.

I hear you guys, but -- internal TBC notwithstanding -- it's very hard for me to imagine that a camcorder (optimized for recording) would be better than a deck (optimized for playback). I DO believe that the danger in buying one of these legacy decks is in the degree to which that sucker has been used and abused. But then @lordsmurf made the point that there's a similar and different danger in buying old camcorders. And then there's the cross-manufacturer tape playback question I posed earlier when using a camera of one brand with a tape made in another.

I have been very happy with the quality of some of the footage I'm seeing out of my Sony EV-C200 deck. And I mean, VERY happy. I guess you're telling me I'd be ECSTATIC with camcorder playback / capture?

[Formica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by motivus

I have been very happy with the quality of some of the footage I'm seeing out of my Sony EV-C200 deck. And I mean, VERY happy. I guess you're telling me I'd be ECSTATIC with camcorder playback / capture?

The point of this digitizing exercise is to get something you're happy with. Improving on that means spending more money to make incremental improvements. So nobody is going to tell you that you need to buy another deck or another capture card.

That TBC has to go though.

[motivus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formica

That TBC has to go though.

It's going... thanks to @Lordsmurf

[Formica]

Strangely enough, you could probably sell that unit on ebay for a good chunk of change, even if you honestly describe it as a later model that you were not satisfied with.

[motivus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formica

Strangely enough, you could probably sell that unit on ebay for a good chunk of change, even if you honestly describe it as a later model that you were not satisfied with.

Ah, interesting prospect. Though I will probably hold onto it as a poor sap's backup TBC until I get another, better backup.

That's the frightening thing about this avocation: it seems that at any moment something may stop working. I need a cosmic ray shield to put around my setup....

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by motivus

I hear you guys, but -- internal TBC notwithstanding -- it's very hard for me to imagine that a camcorder (optimized for recording) would be better than a deck (optimized for playback).

But that's where you're wrong.

- VHS, VHS, S-VHS, and S-VHS-C were NOT optimized for playback.
- Video8 is probably just as bad as VHS.
- But Hi8 and Digital8 cameras were optimized for it -- arguably better than even the "best" Video8/Hi8 VCRs.

Confirm: Does that EV-C200 have a line TBC? My understanding is that it does not. Therefore a with-TBC (line TBC) will add some "wow" factor for the image quality, as well as frame TBC on the stability quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formica

Strangely enough, you could probably sell that unit on ebay for a good chunk of change, even if you honestly describe it as a later model that you were not satisfied with.

That can be a costly gamble. It's 50/50.

(1) You sell to some other gullible newbie, and you're just another a-hole seller of bad TBCs,
(2) The buyer has problems, files for return/refund, and it will cost you money for the return, likely hassle, possibly negative feedback. You'll lose money on the Paypal fees (not reversed anymore), picking up return shipping costs, and then earn eBay strikes.

I don't like either of those options. Selling it "for parts or repair" is honest, and less likely to get a return. But it'll sell for less.

For TBC research purposes, I'm actively investigating if "black" units can be turned "green", but would need donor units. I currently have two, and would always welcome more.

[Formica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

That can be a costly gamble. It's 50/50.

(1) You sell to some other gullible newbie, and you're just another a-hole seller of bad TBCs,
(2) The buyer has problems, files for return/refund, and it will cost you money for the return, likely hassle, possibly negative feedback. You'll lose money on the Paypal fees (not reversed anymore), picking up return shipping costs, and then earn eBay strikes.

I don't like either of those options. Selling it "for parts or repair" is honest, and less likely to get a return. But it'll sell for less.

I'm not suggesting it be sold. I'm saying that it would sell, even if you described it honestly as a model with bad chips.

[motivus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formica

I'm not suggesting it be sold. I'm saying that it would sell, even if you described it honestly as a model with bad chips.

That's how I interpreted you and believe, with the proper (honest) disclaimer, it could find a "happy" buyer. You know, someone like @lordsmurf looking for black 8710s to turn green.

Just kidding @lordsmurf!!! I might be interested in donating my black 8710 to the cause, especially if that means I get early dibs on a refurb'd unit!

[motivus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

But that's where you're wrong.

- VHS, VHS, S-VHS, and S-VHS-C were NOT optimized for playback.
- Video8 is probably just as bad as VHS.
- But Hi8 and Digital8 cameras were optimized for it -- arguably better than even the "best" Video8/Hi8 VCRs.

Confirm: Does that EV-C200 have a line TBC? My understanding is that it does not. Therefore a with-TBC (line TBC) will add some "wow" factor for the image quality, as well as frame TBC on the stability quality.

The EV-C200 does not have an internal TBC. The reason I'm even using this unit -- i.e., eventually sought it out -- is because back in 2017 I borrowed the same from a neighbor who worked for the local NBC affiliate as a camera operator.

Honestly, I still "hear you guys," and do trust what you're saying, but there are SO MANY VARIABLES. But you've alluded to these yourselves, including the pitfalls of trying to find a camcorder with internal TBC in good working shape.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by motivus

including the pitfalls of trying to find a camcorder with internal TBC in good working shape.

Hi8 camcorders were generally not overused, not abuse, and not stored in bad locations. Most cameras were used less than 100 times, sometimes far less, stuffed back in the original camera bag, then abandoned in a drawer or cupboard. Unlike VCRs, kids were allowed to play with cameras far less.

You see some % of bad Hi8 decks, but far less than a good VCR. While eBay is a dumping ground for VCRs, with about 85% of all units being bad, almost the inverse is true of Hi8 cameras. Most are fine, at least 50%, probably 75%+ or more.

The only considerations are price, completeness (wires, adapters, lens), how clean it is (smoke, dirt, etc). You want to avoid cameras from smokers. You always want to avoid all video gear from smokers, tar builds up inside the unit. Yuck!

[sawing14s]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

For TBC research purposes, I'm actively investigating if "black" units can be turned "green", but would need donor units. I currently have two, and would always welcome more.

How is your research going on this? I have a black AVT–8710, but it has the “frame sticking” issue that others have described.