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  #1  
03-14-2021, 10:17 AM
ukandy ukandy is offline
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Hi all,

I'm just getting my project going. Whilst I wait for a TBC I thought I'd test the rest of my kit and start configuring the software settings. In short, I'm pretty amazed with the quality I'm already seeing.

Some crude screengrabs attached. This is from what I expected to be one of the worst of my tapes, as I know it was recorded way back in 1986 and on an old Ferguson 3V29. Yet I'm getting a stable picture (no tearing, colours in the right places), and even without a TBC almost no dropped or inserted frames.

Question: If the VirtualDub options 'Drop frames' and 'Insert frames' are disabled, will VirtualDub still report any such instances even though it isn't 'correcting' them? I want to know if I can capture with these options disabled (as recommended in another thread) but still monitor for quality issues.

Another question: So far I've routed the audio directly from the VCR to the line in of my on-board motherboard sound card. I've read that this isn't recommended, but it seems to be working well for me. I was planning to get a PCI Soundblaster board, but do I really need to?

I realise my perceptions of quality are subjective. I'm not trying to cut corners, just interested in learning from others' experiences and reasoning.

For comment/critique: I've got a JVC S7600 (PAL) which I picked up some years ago from Ebay, I'd guess has only seen light use. ATI AIW 9000 bought recently from Ebay, apparently brand new though card only so I had to find a dongle. I've rebuilt an original XP PC with an Athlon XP 1500+ and 512M of RAM, and am using VirtualDub. I did install ATI MMC 8.8 but experienced some crashes, I'm glad I switched as VirtualDub seems to have far more features. So far the whole thing has been quite painless and seems to be working admirably. Thanks to everyone who's contributed to all the guides and posts on this site. The ultimate purpose is to transfer a small collection of VHS/Video8 home movies from my childhood. I'm going for archival quality, and no particular requirements around target format.


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  #2  
03-14-2021, 07:15 PM
keaton keaton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukandy View Post
Another question: So far I've routed the audio directly from the VCR to the line in of my on-board motherboard sound card. I've read that this isn't recommended, but it seems to be working well for me. I was planning to get a PCI Soundblaster board, but do I really need to?
You'll see lots of competing advice on the forum on many topics, including the audio path. Ultimately you'll have to find out what's good enough for your situation. I have an ATI AIW capture card as well and use direct connection from VCR to motherboard audio. The sound card most mentioned here is Turtle Beach Santa Cruz. As far as audio quality, some motherboard capture chips are pretty good, and some are not. Again, something that is up to your ears to decide on what's good enough. I have motherboard audio that is pretty good, at least for my ears. A decent sound system or a good set of earphones will help you judge the quality of the audio. No video/audio sync issues for me after capturing many many hours of video. A frame TBC helps ensure this, of course. Even with that, I see moments in the Virtualdub Status window where the audio resynchs for a moment. So, I think settings for resynch are likely unavoidable. But if you have a clean tape without a lot of timing issues (i.e. dropped frames), such as the tape you mention, then there shouldn't be much, if any, audio sync issues. But it doesn't take more than a moment on a tape for audio and video to lose sync, and if Virtualdub isn't configured to try and repair that, the rest of the capture will have this skew between the audio and video. Refer to the Virtualdub Capture Guide http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...-settings.html No universal set of settings for all, as the guide indicates. Trial and error is probably what you'll have to use and probably best tested once you find a tape that has a noticeable video dropout that causes the video and audio to drift apart, which a full frame TBC often helps prevent to begin with, but not always.

The video quality from ATI AIW cards mentioned on this forum are very good indeed. That would be consistent with your initial impressions of how good your tapes look to you. I know I'm forever grateful to this forum for pointing me to this line of capture cards.

Best wishes.

Last edited by keaton; 03-14-2021 at 07:26 PM.
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  #3  
03-15-2021, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukandy View Post
In short, I'm pretty amazed with the quality I'm already seeing.
Some crude screengrabs attached.
Overall, I agree, from stills, looks fine.
Motion matters, however. Tiny clips are always good to view (lossless not needed, conserve site space, MP4 is fine).

Quote:
Question: If the VirtualDub options 'Drop frames' and 'Insert frames' are disabled, will VirtualDub still report any such instances even though it isn't 'correcting' them?
No. The ability to turn off the settings, or the labeling of what the settings do, or both, is somewhat dumb. I just got done replying to a Youtube video where the person suggests turning this off, which is wrong. All that does is turn off reporting. You can still drop frames, and now you have no idea it's happening. It also won't insert to avoid audio skew, and inserts is therefore a good thing (the number per hour should be tiny, single digits at most, if not 0). Analog video is imperfect. These settings don't change anything about the video whatsoever, but is merely a head-in-sand settings (when off) for the software/user. Problems will still happen, turning these off accomplishes nothing. It will also affect audio quality, based on the audio settings.

Quote:
I want to know if I can capture with these options disabled (as recommended in another thread) but still monitor for quality issues.
No.

sanlyn recommended those in his guide, but I disagreed on the 2nd page. That was seemingly not being heeded, nor was I as stern as I should have been, so the first post of the thread has now been updated with some exhaustive info on those two settings.

Quote:
Another question: So far I've routed the audio directly from the VCR to the line in of my on-board motherboard sound card. I've read that this isn't recommended,
Timing is usually off, quality is usually pitchy/tinny (ie alters vocal and music quality) and subpar.

In 20 years, I only had acceptable audio capturing once, from a Realtek on-board, on a system I used in the late 00s. I forget which motherboard, but it was high-end (a site donation, thanks indolikaa!), until it melted itself in 2014. That system ran hot.

Quote:
but it seems to be working well for me. I was planning to get a PCI Soundblaster board, but do I really need to?
Ideally.

Quote:
For comment/critique: I've got a JVC S7600 (PAL) which I picked up some years ago from Ebay, I'd guess has only seen light use. ATI AIW 9000 bought recently from Ebay, apparently brand new though card only so I had to find a dongle. I've rebuilt an original XP PC with an Athlon XP 1500+ and 512M of RAM, and am using VirtualDub.
All fine.

RAM is a bit low, I'd try to max out at 2gb, a 1gb minimum. I ran 512 in 2001-2002, and it was tough a times, caused capture issues. That AMD 1500 is a bit slow. I know 1400 failed, and 1700 was touchy (and it also had 512mb RAM). These days, I'd outright build something with latter 00s or early 10s parts, dual-core Intels, SATA (not IDE, slow, yuck).

Quote:
The ultimate purpose is to transfer a small collection of VHS/Video8 home movies from my childhood. I'm going for archival quality, and no particular requirements around target format.
When done, VCRs/TBCs/capture cads: sell them. Use the marketplace subforum here, not eBay. Good gear is always in demand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keaton View Post
I have an ATI AIW capture card as well and use direct connection from VCR to motherboard audio. The sound card most mentioned here is Turtle Beach Santa Cruz.
Me too.

Quote:
Even with that, I see moments in the Virtualdub Status window where the audio resynchs for a moment. So, I think settings for resynch are likely unavoidable.
Yep.

Quote:
and if Virtualdub isn't configured to try and repair that,
^ That's what INSERTS do.

Quote:
No universal set of settings for all, as the guide indicates.
Not all cards and systems. But some some cards, and some cards+systems, it can be more easily replicated.

Quote:
I know I'm forever grateful to this forum for pointing me to this line of capture cards.

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  #4  
03-20-2021, 04:23 PM
ukandy ukandy is offline
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Thanks both for your comments, all really useful.

I will indeed do some tests to listen to audio quality on playback. If I can get hold of a Santa Cruz easily I might just do so anyway.

Lordsmurf I do remember reading that you'd disagreed with sanlyn about the VirtualDub settings, I guess I hadn't picked up on why. What you're saying makes sense to me. I'll go and read your more detailed explanation!

I know the PC spec is on the low side but so far it's holding up. I'm capturing in raw UYVY which helps reduce the load, mainly because I don't care how big the files are.

Once I'm done I will indeed offer all my kit to the marketplace here, I'd be pleased to know that someone else can get some use from it :-)
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