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05-27-2021, 12:31 PM
nsterge nsterge is offline
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I recently purchased a Vidbox (https://www.amazon.com/VIDBOX-Video-...2135430&sr=8-3) analog to digital converter to convert a large number of home movies I have (formats include Hi8, VHS, VHS-C, and miniDV). I converted the Hi8 tapes with seemingly no issues. I started converting VHS and VHS-C tapes my uncle had from the late 80's and early to mid 90's when I started running into some issues that I have struggled troubleshooting.

Problem: Some of these tapes I transferred have a section of horizontal flickering/distortion at the top of the frame (covers maybe 10% of the screen). This issue only happens on certain tapes and at certain spots on those tapes. I will include an attachment demonstrating this issue in two clips (one VHS and one VHS-C), and let me know if it would be helpful to include a section without issues. I will list what I did to troubleshoot and the equipment used below.

Equipment:
Converter - VIDBOX
Computer - M1 Macbook Pro w/ Big Sur 11.0
SSD to which .mp4s are written - Samsung T5 Portable SSD
VCR 1 - Sony SLV-N71
VCR 2 - Toshiba W-603
VHS-C Adaptor - Panasonic VHS PlayPak (VYM0009)
TV used to test VHS - Toshiba 22LV610U

Troubleshooting: When I noticed the issue, I tried directing the VCR (Sony SLV-N71) signal straight to the TV. The playback of this was fine indicating to me the issue was with the VIDBOX conversion or the capture. To further test this, I tried a different VCR (Toshiba W-603) with the VIDBOX and the issue remained (same sections of the tape had issue). After identifying that to be the likely source of the problem, I am not sure what steps to take to fix the issue.

Thank you for your help!


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 Analog to Digital Transfer Issue Example.mp4 (24.37 MB, 28 downloads)
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  #2  
05-27-2021, 01:19 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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That's one type of flagging, It is a line timing issue that can be addressed by having a VCR with built in line TBC or a minimal DMR-es10 or 15 DVD recorder in the chain but the latter may introduce more problems.
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  #3  
05-27-2021, 04:51 PM
nsterge nsterge is offline
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So you don't believe it's an issue with the converter given that it played ok on the TV?
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  #4  
05-27-2021, 05:05 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Yes it is an issue of both the capture device and the tape and I showed you how to fix it, Unless you want to try some legacy capture cards under Win 7, those are as good as a TV in handling bad signal, It will be a trial and error and a lot of money invested, Even then a minimum of line jitter will still be there.
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  #5  
05-27-2021, 08:24 PM
BarryTheCrab BarryTheCrab is offline
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I have both ES-10 and 15.
The 15 is my preferred. Less aggressive noise reduction.
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  #6  
05-31-2021, 10:48 AM
nsterge nsterge is offline
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I’ve been looking at vcrs with tbc on eBay and they seem to be quite expensive. When you say the es10 or 15 dvd recorder may fix the issue as well, but may introduce issues, what issues are you referring to? I’ve seen es-15 for significantly less than the tbc vcrs and wanted to know if that would be a good option to try. Thanks again for your help!
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  #7  
05-31-2021, 11:24 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
That's one type of flagging, It is a line timing issue that can be addressed by having a VCR with built in line TBC or a minimal DMR-es10 or 15 DVD recorder in the chain but the latter may introduce more problems.
With this specific issue the build in VCR TBCs are not always sufficient so you may want to go for one of these dvd-recorders in any case.
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  #8  
05-31-2021, 12:19 PM
nsterge nsterge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
With this specific issue the build in VCR TBCs are not always sufficient so you may want to go for one of these dvd-recorders in any case.
Iíve seen them for about 100-150 dollars on eBay which I would consider worth the cost. Also, are the recorders acting as a tbc and if so are they just superior to the tbc in the vcrs, or are they doing other processing?
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  #9  
05-31-2021, 01:21 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Yes they do other processing, The things you watch out for is the luma level and sharpness that can be changed by these devices.
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  #10  
05-31-2021, 01:26 PM
nsterge nsterge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
Yes they do other processing, The things you watch out for is the luma level and sharpness that can be changed by these devices.
And are they simply used as a pass through?
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  #11  
05-31-2021, 01:40 PM
nsterge nsterge is offline
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-D...-/393368577100

This is the one right?
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  #12  
06-02-2021, 10:52 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsterge View Post
I’ve been looking at vcrs with tbc on eBay and they seem to be quite expensive.
Expensive compared to what?
- If compared to a VCR from Walmart 20 years ago, sure, I guess. But that's like calling an SUV expensive compared to a budget compact car. Not the same level whatsoever, unfair to compare pricing.
- But if comparing to MSRP for the same item, no, price is either lower, about the same (ie, still less expensive in 2021 dollars) -- rarely more than MSRP for JVC VCRs, unless refurbished (and even then, some models are still less than MSRP).

Prices on eBay are actually low, but the problem with eBay is you're overpaying for junk. Most eBay sellers are video know-nothings, and have no educated basis on which to deem items "working" or "tested".

Quote:
I’ve seen es-15 for significantly less than the tbc vcrs and wanted to know if that would be a good option to try. Thanks again for your help!
Just as good? No.
But sometimes still a decent 2nd choice, with quality degradations? Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nsterge View Post
are the recorders acting as a tbc
Not really, but sort of.
The ES10/15 is a strong+crippled line TBC with non-TBC frame sync. That can work, under certain circumstances, but it has a fail rate (tapes still won't convert well, or at all).

Quote:
and if so are they just superior to the tbc in the vcrs,
No.

Quote:
or are they doing other processing?
Yes -- and not in a good way. See next quote...

Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
Yes they do other processing, The things you watch out for is the luma level and sharpness that can be changed by these devices.
Don't forget posterization, which is color compression. It can be mild to ugly. This is the main reason that ES10/15 is only suggested for net-benefit projects (anti-tearing), not as a general-use poor man's TBC (or trying to use it as such, at least).

nsterge, you have tearing, you need ES10 or 15. (No, not 20/25/etc, not other models.)

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