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02-16-2022, 04:00 PM
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http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...d-footage.html

So after reading this thread (above) I understand the purpose and process of each way that videos can be viewed and how it matters.
I did want to add to this and just include my process and make sure I understand it correctly.

So after capturing (using VirtualDub) as a lossless AVI, I can run filters/color corrections from VD or other NLE, then bring it back through to save at H.264.

I do plan on sharing these with family members so some may get flash drives others downloaded from either cloud drives like Pcloud (which can also play certain files). From what I have read it is in my interest to Deinterlace the ones I put into the cloud.

However, my main question is from the original captures the combing stays even when I play it local through WMP. Is deinterlacing the only option for eliminating combing? I do not plan on putting my captures onto DVDs or discs of any kind as I am doing this to eliminate the clutter of physical containers.

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  #2  
02-16-2022, 04:25 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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If you accept lower quality, you can play the original interlaced captures with VLC enabling Yadiff (for example) instead of deinterlacing.

Compressing interlaced material with x264 is also possible, MBAFF mode is used
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=173142
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96598

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  #3  
02-16-2022, 04:47 PM
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So in the interest of my family not understanding technology very well, especially the ones who will watch these videos what would your opinion be? Leave them interlaced?

I feel like even though "quality" may be lost, sometimes the deinterlacing makes the videos appear more clear because of the amount of combing that occurs. Would it be more on a per video basis?
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  #4  
02-16-2022, 05:20 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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When I refer loss of quality I meant AviSynth QTGMC deinterlacing versus Real Time VLC deinterlacing.

For your deliver format, you could deinterlace (and restore) with AviSynth and compress to x264. Something like:
Code:
ffmpeg.exe -i <your avs script>.avs -c:v libx264 -crf 17 -preset slow -aspect 4:3 -c:a aac -b:a 128k output.mp4
Quote:
sometimes the deinterlacing makes the videos appear more clear because of the amount of combing that occurs
On modern TVs the "vision" is progressive. Either you deinterlace yourself as above, or you leave the device do the deinterlacing. Best quality depends on the TV, but generally is higher with QTGMC.

If you deliver for a PC playback, you can deinterlace as above, or set the media player to do it. First is higher quality.

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  #5  
02-16-2022, 05:33 PM
Closecall Closecall is offline
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Okay, that makes sense. Thank you for your responses.

Is there a good guide somewhere to using Avisynth? I have done a lot of reading about it and have tried to use it but there is to much information surrounding it, that I have found, that doesn't give a very good step-by-step to at least start using it.
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  #6  
02-17-2022, 03:42 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
Is there a good guide somewhere to using Avisynth?
AviSynth is just a frameserver with editing capabilities based on scripts. No guide needed, just install it.
The filters developed for AviSynth often have a wiki page and, if they are scripts instead of compiled dlls, a description inside the script itself. Unfortunately this doc is not always easy to understand nor complete.
But the key point is understand the nature of your video, identify its problems, and choose the appropriate set of filters and a methodology to apply them. For that there is no guide, you must build your own expertize. It requires a lot of effort and time. You can read the restoration forums here, on videohelp and on doom9 to see examples.

About colors, levels and histograms you can also have a look at https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...istograms1.htm and https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...istograms2.htm

About the common problems with analog videos you can have a look in its specific section at http://www.avartifactatlas.com

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  #7  
02-17-2022, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollo
No guide needed, just install it.
I don't want to sound rude but... you cannot be serious. Getting AVISynth installed and more so QTGMC set up is by far the most difficult thing I have ever done on a computer. It was a nightmare, and I'm not joking. Even now I shudder thinking about running a script to do a simple de-interlace.
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  #8  
02-17-2022, 06:53 AM
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Avisynth is a rabbit hole. It's daunting the first few times.

These days, newbies really need to start with Hybrid. It can handle more basic operations. selur did a marvelous job with that freeware (and he deserves a donation from anybody using it).

(It also handle more advanced ones, but with a caveat: you have a harder time controlling the order of operations. When you need order control, multiple filters, that's the time to learn manual Avisynth. Note that Hybrid accepts the AVS files, so it can still be the encoder.)

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  #9  
02-17-2022, 07:20 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
I don't want to sound rude but... you cannot be serious.
You did not read what I have written. AviSynth is a "program" not needing any guide. You just install it.

QTGMC is a filter for AviSynth (and not only). It may be complicated to link its ties in an AviSynth script for a beginner having no experience in programming (for me it was not). Using and configuring a filter can be easy or very difficult.

Quote:
Even now I shudder thinking about running a script to do a simple de-interlace
After the first script it should be straightforward to write and run a simple deinterlace script. The tuning of QTGMC parameter is not easy when looking for the best result. If you have problem, ask here

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Last edited by lollo2; 02-17-2022 at 08:06 AM.
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  #10  
02-18-2022, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo2 View Post
AviSynth is a "program" ... You just install it.
QTGMC is a filter ... Using and configuring a filter can be easy or very difficult.
Ah, that makes sense now.

... but noting you have to decide what to install Avisynth 2.6, 2.6 MT, x86+, x64+, all (and that's gets ugly quick).
So just finding what to install has a learning curve.

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  #11  
02-18-2022, 04:19 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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When somebody starts something new, normally begins from the basic.
I started long time ago with AviSynth 2.60 and HuffyYUV 2.1.1, all 32 bit. After all this time I never needed to change.

The filters are sometime difficult to run and optimizing the parameters can take lot of time and effort, but more difficult is to understand the nature of the problem in the video and how to solve it.

However a basic deinterlacing procedure is not too difficult. An example for the OP:

1- install AviSynth and VirtualDub. The last is used to load the scripts of the first
2- understand if your video is interlaced or not and if yes if is TFF or BFF: http://web.archive.org/web/200908031....html#analysis
Code:
AVISource("your_clip.avi")
AssumeTFF() #or AssumeBFF()
SeparateFields()
3- download QTGMC from http://avisynth.nl/index.php/QTGMC and place somewhere
4- read the doc in the above page to find the required additional plugin (MaskTools2, MVTools2, nnedi3, RgTools) and the additional functions (Zs_RF_Shared); download them and place somewhere; follow the instructions in the doc for FFTW3 library
5- create a script with the open of the source file, the import of the QTGMC filter (is a function), the load/import of the required plugins/functions, and the QTGMC command (it is just a 2 lines script plus the load of the plugings and the import of the functions)
Code:
AVISource("your_clip.avi")

Import("<path to the plugin>QTGMC.avsi") # i.e. Import("C:\AviSynth\filters\QTGMC.avsi")
loadPlugin("<path to the plugin>masktools2.dll")
loadPlugin("<path to the plugin>mvtools2.dll")
loadPlugin("<path to the plugin>nnedi3.dll")
loadPlugin(<path to the plugin>RgTools.dll")
Import("<path to the plugin>Zs_RF_Shared.avsi")

QTGMC()
6- load the script in VirtualDub and save the processed file in the form you prefer (generally "Fast recompress" to use same original codec. YMMV)

edit: added point 6

Last edited by lollo2; 02-18-2022 at 05:06 AM.
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  #12  
02-18-2022, 11:26 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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There is an error in the script: add AssumeTFF() or AssumeBFF() before QTGMC()

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  #13  
02-18-2022, 12:04 PM
Closecall Closecall is offline
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Sorry for the delay in response, I appreciate everyone's input and responses here. I am getting my XP machine up and running hopefully this weekend or early next week and I will start applying what you have said here!

Thank you lollo2 for your step-by-step instructions to help me take my first shot at using it.
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  #14  
02-18-2022, 07:40 PM
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Lollo,

I too will try your installation method on my other computer. I see you do not use the Avisynth plugins folders at all.

Step one is: Install Avisynth. To quote from LS (and I recall I also got into a headspin about which version):

Quote:
... but noting you have to decide what to install Avisynth 2.6, 2.6 MT, x86+, x64+, all (and that's gets ugly quick).
Which version do you suggest?

Also, it sounds simple but "install Virtual Dub" is actually, to somebody new to this, is misleading. Once again, many versions, and it doesn't "install". It is extracted from a Zip (or worse, a RAR. Why do people use RARs and 7zs instead of just plain old ZIP?).
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  #15  
02-19-2022, 05:31 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
I see you do not use the Avisynth plugins folders at all.
Yes, I do not put the dlls and the functions in the default AviSynth plugin folder, to avoid that they are all loaded when the program "starts".
The reason is that I prefer to load inside a script only the needed modules, and, more important, the filters have dependencies between them. For example a filter X may need a specific version A.A of MVTools, while filter Y may need a different version B.B of MVTools. On top of that, often a dependencies filter is updated and my introduce a regression on the filter using it if his author does not update this last as well. It is not easy for a beginner to deail with the filters, I know, and I use dozens of them.
In summay, when I wish to use a filter, I always read in the doc its dependencies (and the required version) and stick to this only loading what is required.

Quote:
Which version do you suggest?
If you capture with a 32-bit version of a lossles codec for capturing (HuffYUV, Lagarith, UT Video), start with 32 bit AviSynth 2.6.

Quote:
Also, it sounds simple but "install Virtual Dub" is actually, to somebody new to this, is misleading.
A program can be installed on your computer with a "command" (copyng the reuired files in a certain place and adding infos in the Windows registry) or by manually placing a directory somewhere. VirtualDub or a "portable" version of some other program is in the second category. But you are right, I had to be more clear in my previous post, because all this can be misleading.

Quote:
Why do people use RARs and 7zs instead of just plain old ZIP?)
Because it is a wealth to have different compression formats and different programs. They differ for age, for effectiveness and for personal taste of the user.

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  #16  
02-19-2022, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
The reason is that I prefer to load inside a script only the needed modules, and, more important, the filters have dependencies between them. For example a filter X may need a specific version A.A of MVTools, while filter Y may need a different version B.B of MVTools. On top of that, often a dependencies filter is updated and my introduce a regression on the filter using it if his author does not update this last as well. It is not easy for a beginner to deail with the filters, I know, and I use dozens of them.
In summay, when I wish to use a filter, I always read in the doc its dependencies (and the required version) and stick to this only loading what is required.
OK, thanks. Now it's getting complicated.
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  #17  
02-21-2022, 10:07 PM
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So I got everything hooked up, got VirtualDub installed, got the HuffYUV installed and did a test capture and it worked. (still figuring out why it didn't record the audio) Regardless, my main question is once you have the AVI file and your capture is done, how do you go about opening it to view it anywhere? I transferred it to my Windows 10 machine and nothing can open it. I got VLC to eventually open it with some work but my adobe premier nor Davinci resolve would recognize the file.
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  #18  
02-21-2022, 10:50 PM
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Your Win10 edit computer also needs the codec installed. And since those NLE are x64, you'll need it installed for x64 as well. There are several recent posts on this.

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  #19  
02-21-2022, 11:27 PM
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I figured as much just wasnt 100% on it. Also have been working on my setup all day and on other things so getting an answer to a post vs searching for an answer was just more convenient.

-- merged --

I did have one more specific question, now that I've had time to look and haven't found much on it on the forums is for the BVTBC10. I have my VHS hooked up to it, then to my ATI AIW USB, to my XP machine, using VirtualDub, i get no signal when playing a tape. If i take the TBC out of the equation and run VCR to ATI then it works perfectly fine.
Thoughts?
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  #20  
02-22-2022, 12:15 AM
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That's getting a bit too off-topic for this thread.

But, as a quick answer,
(1) Is it powered on? It has 5V plug, will 1st show POR (power on self test) when plugged in, before starting
(2) Are you using composite or s-video? It should be in s-video mode.

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