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10-06-2022, 10:55 PM
honey_lake honey_lake is offline
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Hi all,

So I've been doing a lot of research on converting our VHS to DVD and as most came across this site. Done a lot of reading, accepted the fact I need to spend $$$ for a good S-VHS player, TBC and capture device.

However I still want to ask for assistance and feedback before I bite the bullet, help organise my options, and answer all the burning questions in my head =/

Firstly, I'd like feedback on the following devices and their performance, and whether they'll be sufficient. Otherwise I'll look at purchasing off https://vcrshop.com/ based on the recommended list on this site. These are the ones I and a relative of mine have:

VHS Player
- LG V271
- Panasonic NV-HD100 (I know this device isn't be great but listing anyway, just in case fam asks why I have a good excuse )

Recorder
- Pioneer DVR-LX61D

Secondly the one I'm most at a loss at: the TBC. The recommended ones are a PAIN to find. I can see DMR-ES15 (heaps of these) and DMR-ES10 easily as a cheaper option, but are they really going to do the job? Is there really no modern option for this item...

And last but not least, the capture device. If the Pioneer recorder is not recommended, what will be good to use on a Mac? Anything with a PCIe option is out , since our household only has Macbooks and an iMac. I can find the Hauppage 610 online - can see it's compatible with Linux so happy to spin up a VM, but if it's going to sacrifice quality would it be better to go for the Canopus option?


Thanks in advance! Sorry if I missed some sort of important post, I've been trawling through stuff for hours and days on end. Please link it so I can take a look, and hopefully help someone else in future ~
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  #2  
10-07-2022, 05:34 AM
beachcomber beachcomber is offline
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The recommended tools for capturing analog video are one of a select few of JVC or Panasonic VCRs, a Windows computer, not macOS (do not use a virtual machine… Boot Camp you could try but don’t use a VM!), a decent capture device like the Pinnacle 510 or 710, and a surviving frame TBC from the golden era of capture. The latter cannot be purchased new and they aren’t cheap. You can get one from the marketplace here that is tested, known to work, and produces quality results.

Wouldn’t use that LG VCR for capture.

Do you have Intel based Macs?
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  #3  
10-07-2022, 07:22 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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Quote:
I can find the Hauppage 610 online
If used with a VCR with lineTBC and Y/C input it will provide excellent results. A good/equivalent alternative is IOData GV-USB2.
They both work without problem with a PC running Windows 10, not need to search for old out of production cards and old Windows OS.
A frameTBC may be needed depending on the conditions of your tapes.

A channel on S-VHS / VHS capture and AviSynth restoration https://bit.ly/3mHWbkN
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  #4  
10-07-2022, 10:34 PM
honey_lake honey_lake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachcomber View Post
The recommended tools for capturing analog video are one of a select few of JVC or Panasonic VCRs, a Windows computer, not macOS (do not use a virtual machine… Boot Camp you could try but don’t use a VM!), a decent capture device like the Pinnacle 510 or 710, and a surviving frame TBC from the golden era of capture. The latter cannot be purchased new and they aren’t cheap. You can get one from the marketplace here that is tested, known to work, and produces quality results.

Wouldn’t use that LG VCR for capture.

Do you have Intel based Macs?
Firstly, thank you for the advice!

Alright, that solves the VCR then, I'll buy a JVC one from that site. Will update my first post.

I know the TBC can't be purchased new and are $$$$ =/ I'll have a look at this sites marketplace first before asking further.

Yes our Macs are Intel based. Also just found a Windows laptop lying around ! 8GB RAM, i7 chip, Windows 10. So should be good to go with one of the recommended devices. Looks like there's Win 10 drivers for the Pinnacle 710 on here too. How does the Pinnacle 710/IOData GV-USB2 compare with the suggested consumer capture cards ATI TV Wonder HD 600 and Hauppauge 610?

Another question, what if I just captured straight into that Pioneer DVR-LX61D as opposed to a laptop? Then transfer to laptop for any editing.
So JVC VCR -> TBC (tbd) -> Pioneer DVR-LX61D (via S-VIDEO)
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  #5  
10-08-2022, 03:11 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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Quote:
How does the Pinnacle 710/IOData GV-USB2 compare with the suggested consumer capture cards ATI TV Wonder HD 600 and Hauppauge 610?
Some (indirect) comparison Pinnacle 710 versus Hauppauge USB- Live 2 through Dazzle DVC100:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...-pinnacle.html


A comparison between Hauppauge USB-Live 2 and IOData GV-USB2:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...e3#post2660565

Quote:
Another question, what if I just captured straight into that Pioneer DVR-LX61D as opposed to a laptop?
Lower quality

A channel on S-VHS / VHS capture and AviSynth restoration https://bit.ly/3mHWbkN
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  #6  
10-08-2022, 03:20 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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Quote:
what if I just captured straight into that Pioneer DVR-LX61D as opposed to a laptop? Then transfer to laptop for any editing.
So JVC VCR -> TBC (tbd) -> Pioneer DVR-LX61D (via S-VIDEO)
You can't "transfer" video via S-video to the laptop. Unless you have a firewire/DV workflow, any video going into the laptop will have to be via a capture device, so the Pioneer will be superfluous (unless using it as a TBC) because you would still need a capture device after the Pioneer.
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  #7  
10-08-2022, 03:33 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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Quote:
because you would still need a capture device after the Pioneer
Is not the Pioneer DVR-LX61D a DVD/HDD recorder? I think he meant record to it and import the MPEG-2 files on the laptop for editing.

A channel on S-VHS / VHS capture and AviSynth restoration https://bit.ly/3mHWbkN
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  #8  
10-08-2022, 04:13 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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Arrh, OK, they did say "(via S-VIDEO)" which I read to mean S-video from the LX61 to the laptop.

If not that, they would then need to burn a DVD, then copy the DVD files to the laptop.

While you can copy media files from a PC to the LX61 using Windows Explorer (via the ethernet) there doesn't appear to be a way of going from LX61 to PC. The manual says "Files imported to this recorder via Connect PC cannot be exported from this recorder". You might be able to go LX61 to PC via the network after a "recording". Be interesting to see the quality if you could.
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  #9  
10-08-2022, 04:29 AM
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You can use a Mac to capture.
You can also drive a lawnmower/go-kart/unicycle to work.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It's the wrong tool for the task.

In terms of Mac capture, you have almost no devices, sometimes literally zero devices (newest M1/M2 systems). What does exist is very craptastic in terms of the quality. With few exceptions (ie, ATI 600 USB clone to OS X 10.14, ATI AIW USB on 10.6, few others).

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  #10  
10-08-2022, 05:08 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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Quote:
You can use a Mac to capture.
You can also drive a lawnmower/go-kart/unicycle to work.

A channel on S-VHS / VHS capture and AviSynth restoration https://bit.ly/3mHWbkN
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  #11  
10-08-2022, 06:58 AM
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Just to add:

Mac users tend to get defensive, and too easily think other are anti-Mac. That's not me.

I like Macs, always have. Macs are great at certain tasks that cannot at all, or as easily, be done in Windows or Linux (or others). But video capture is not one of those tasks.

I own Macs, and will get another when the M2 Mini is announced, for H.265/HEVC editing from an Atomos Ninja V.

I'm platform agnostic. OS are tools. I use the best tool for the task. For capture, that means Windows, preferably XP or 7.

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  #12  
10-09-2022, 01:06 AM
beachcomber beachcomber is offline
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Fortunately, honey_lake said they found a Windows laptop, and that ought to work for capturing purposes.

As has been said, capture to a computer, not a DVD recorder. You'll be glad you did. It's the easiest and best path.
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  #13  
10-10-2022, 08:25 AM
honey_lake honey_lake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo2 View Post
Some (indirect) comparison Pinnacle 710 versus Hauppauge USB- Live 2 through Dazzle DVC100:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...-pinnacle.html


A comparison between Hauppauge USB-Live 2 and IOData GV-USB2:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...e3#post2660565

Lower quality
Seems like recording to the laptop is the way to go. Been reading some others on here too, haven't decided which one yet but starting to narrow my options thankfully. I've ruled out the IOData GV-USB2 so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
While you can copy media files from a PC to the LX61 using Windows Explorer (via the ethernet) there doesn't appear to be a way of going from LX61 to PC. The manual says "Files imported to this recorder via Connect PC cannot be exported from this recorder". You might be able to go LX61 to PC via the network after a "recording". Be interesting to see the quality if you could.
There's a USB port on the front of the unit, so was hoping it might allow for transfer to an external drive, which I can then access on my PC. I haven't checked the manual though and whether this is possible. Since the DVR isn't mine I'll probably just do a direct transfer to my PC. Easier that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
You can use a Mac to capture.
You can also drive a lawnmower/go-kart/unicycle to work.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It's the wrong tool for the task.

In terms of Mac capture, you have almost no devices, sometimes literally zero devices (newest M1/M2 systems). What does exist is very craptastic in terms of the quality. With few exceptions (ie, ATI 600 USB clone to OS X 10.14, ATI AIW USB on 10.6, few others).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Just to add:

Mac users tend to get defensive, and too easily think other are anti-Mac. That's not me.

I like Macs, always have. Macs are great at certain tasks that cannot at all, or as easily, be done in Windows or Linux (or others). But video capture is not one of those tasks.

I own Macs, and will get another when the M2 Mini is announced, for H.265/HEVC editing from an Atomos Ninja V.

I'm platform agnostic. OS are tools. I use the best tool for the task. For capture, that means Windows, preferably XP or 7.
Thanks for letting me know, I was honestly worried since we only actively use Macs. Just happy we have a Windows laptop even lying around so will make the process a lot easier.
And don't stress, we're not Apple fanatics In the same mindset with OS's, for personal use we just prefer Macs hence why it's so prevalent. My work laptop is Windows (ofc not by choice) with uh.... a lot of Linux VMs lol

Alright things are starting to slowly coming together. I'll be looking to buy this week/next, so if I have any further queries will post here. Everyone has been super helpful, really appreciate it =)
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  #14  
10-10-2022, 08:50 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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Quote:
I've ruled out the IOData GV-USB2 so far.
Bad move. I have all three. The 710-USB is flaky on Win 10, sometimes works, sometimes not. The USB Live 2 is not as good as the GV-USB2 withe average tapes unless it is used with a line TBC/ES15.

The GV-USB 2 looks as good as the 710, but is solid as a rock with Windows 10. That comparison with the Live 2 on VideoHelp is mine, with comments by Lollo.
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  #15  
10-10-2022, 10:19 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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Quote:
unless it is used with a line TBC/ES15.
Just to clarify: unless it is used with a S-VHS VCR with lineTBC and Y/C output (which is always recommended anyhow) or with a specific DVD-R Recoder in passthrough mode if no such VCR is available

A channel on S-VHS / VHS capture and AviSynth restoration https://bit.ly/3mHWbkN

Last edited by lollo2; 10-10-2022 at 10:53 AM.
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  #16  
10-11-2022, 06:00 PM
honey_lake honey_lake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
Bad move. I have all three. The 710-USB is flaky on Win 10, sometimes works, sometimes not. The USB Live 2 is not as good as the GV-USB2 withe average tapes unless it is used with a line TBC/ES15.

The GV-USB 2 looks as good as the 710, but is solid as a rock with Windows 10. That comparison with the Live 2 on VideoHelp is mine, with comments by Lollo.
That's good to know! I ended up going for the Pinnacle thanks to LS.
I just have to figure out TBC and S-VHS player now.

For TBC, I found the following devices from a local store here:
- Cypress CDM-830
- Cypress CDM-631
- Cypress CDM-640AR

Thoughts?
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  #17  
10-12-2022, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
Bad move. I have all three. The 710-USB is flaky on Win 10, sometimes works, sometimes not.
This is not accurate. I agree, it can be flaky. All capture cards can. But I've not observed that specific card to have a higher % of failures or oddities than any other card in Win10. Nor have there been any volume of reports. In most cases, it's fine in Win10, works well.

Win10 is the problem. A main reason is that there is no "Win10". Every 6 months, you get a major update. Every year or so, 2-3 updates is essentially a full-fledged OS upgrade. So whatever came with your system, whatever you installed, is massively different today. It's just not the same OS anymore. That also means what ever you think you know about device compatibility could easily change. It's already happened once, where anything using certain chipsets have been hosed, why cards like he ATI 600 USB no longer work at all. At least Pinnacle has kept their drivers updated. Much like ATI, when your GV-USB quits working, you're screwed. Same for many other cards, from other vendors, some of whom don't even exist anymore.

Do note that this specific model number was long lived, and the actual cards can differ. So that may also explain issues. When I sell this model, I have to tear it down, to verify it's a good model. I don't sell bad/problem units. All part of the refurb process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by honey_lake View Post
For TBC, I found the following devices from a local store here:
- Cypress CDM-830
- Cypress CDM-631
- Cypress CDM-640AR
Thoughts?
The local store will 100% guaranteed have flawed model Cypress, bad chipset, identical to black AVT-8710.

You're referring to Global Pro, right? It's a good store, I've imported various items from them several times over the past 15 years, but those TBCs are junk.

BTW, at least one of those models listed above is not even a TBC, but a bog converter with bypass, ie so no PAL>PAL.

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  #18  
10-12-2022, 06:10 PM
honey_lake honey_lake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Win10 is the problem. A main reason is that there is no "Win10". Every 6 months, you get a major update. Every year or so, 2-3 updates is essentially a full-fledged OS upgrade. So whatever came with your system, whatever you installed, is massively different today. It's just not the same OS anymore. That also means what ever you think you know about device compatibility could easily change. It's already happened once, where anything using certain chipsets have been hosed, why cards like he ATI 600 USB no longer work at all. At least Pinnacle has kept their drivers updated. Much like ATI, when your GV-USB quits working, you're screwed. Same for many other cards, from other vendors, some of whom don't even exist anymore.

Do note that this specific model number was long lived, and the actual cards can differ. So that may also explain issues. When I sell this model, I have to tear it down, to verify it's a good model. I don't sell bad/problem units. All part of the refurb process.
This is good to know or at least remember, since the digital world is always upgrading and changing. Also makes me feel better about getting the Pinnacle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
The local store will 100% guaranteed have flawed model Cypress, bad chipset, identical to black AVT-8710.

You're referring to Global Pro, right? It's a good store, I've imported various items from them several times over the past 15 years, but those TBCs are junk.

BTW, at least one of those models listed above is not even a TBC, but a bog converter with bypass, ie so no PAL>PAL.
Ah that's a shame Glad you're straight to the point though. Thought I had hit gold And nah, this is Wagner Online Electronic Stores, located in NSW. TBC is obviously the hardest thing to find, if only someone somewhere still reproduced just one device for this purpose.

Am I correct in assuming I should figure out the S-VHS once the TBC and capture card have been obtained first?
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  #19  
10-12-2022, 07:37 PM
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Wagner is the same, very aware of them as well. You can use an unimportant tape to play with the VCR, but it is rather pointless to do much of anything until the full workflow is assembled.

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  #20  
10-12-2022, 08:22 PM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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My understanding is a frame TBC will correct/minimise audio sync issues. The line TBC in higher-end S-VHS VCRs (or a ES-type DVD recorder) will fix image issues such as wonky colours and wobbles/tearing.

Given the price of TBCs and my own (limited) experience, I'd be getting the VCR and capture stick first. Provided it has an inbuilt line TBC (or you're using a ES-type DVD recorder as a passthrough) and the tapes are OK, your sync may be OK and there'd be no need for a frame TBC. You can always add a frame TBC afterward if things don't work out.
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