#1  
09-20-2023, 12:35 PM
eag3ye eag3ye is offline
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Hello,

With all the questionable information bandied about online, it was truly a blessing to discover this site.

I captured all my family's VHS home videos about 15 years ago using a newer Panasonic VCR from the era passed through a DV camcorder to my laptop. I edited the footage in Adobe Premiere and burned the videos to DVD. The quality is... somewhat acceptable, but I really want to redo the entire process and keep lossless masters this time.

1.) What is the best Win11, USB capture device to use? I'd love to set up a legacy workstation with an ATI card to do this correctly, but unfortunately my budget is a limiting factor. I've read some about this device:

GV-USB2

Would this work decently well?

I've also read a lot about the elgato devices, which appeal to me because I'm in the market for a good gaming capture device as well.

2.) What is the best capture software to use? I've heard of VirtualDub and OBS - is there one that is recommended for Win11 users? Also, is it suggested to capture the footage as is for masters (i.e., no deinterlacing or upscaling)?

Thanks in advance!

-- merged --

Another device I looked into was the Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle. Any thoughts on that one?
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  #2  
09-20-2023, 09:19 PM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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The GV-USB2 works flawlessly with Win 11. It's my go-to digitiser. Don't be put off by the lack of English instructions; they are available here and the install process for the drivers only is simple.

I'm in PAL land, so I can't vouch for NTSC, but I assume, given IO-Data is a Japanese company, that it would work with NTSC as well.

Quote:
What is the best capture software to use? I've heard of VirtualDub and OBS
OBS isn't recommended because it records in MP4, which isn't the best archiving/processing format (I do believe OBS can be made to record losslessly but it is a major fiddle). There is also some conjecture about where it actually gets the video signal from.

If VDub doesn't work for you, another option for capture is AmarecTV.

Quote:
Also, is it suggested to capture the footage as is for masters (i.e., no deinterlacing or upscaling)?
Yes, capture as basically as you can with no processing during capture. Lossless codec eg HUFFYUV, Lagarith, YUY2 colour space. Then in post-processing, do your restoration stuff.
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  #3  
09-20-2023, 09:29 PM
eag3ye eag3ye is offline
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Awesome! I was leaning heavily toward going for it. I think you pushed me over the fence.

What software do you use to capture? Do you do any upscaling or deinterlacing when capturing?
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  #4  
09-20-2023, 10:13 PM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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Quote:
What software do you use to capture? Do you do any upscaling or deinterlacing when capturing?
I use AmarecTV but Lordsmurf recommends Virtual Dub 1.9.11 from here:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-conversion/1727-virtualdub-filters-pre.html

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Do you do any upscaling or deinterlacing when capturing?
No, just capture 720x576 PAL or 720x480 NTSC and do all the other stuff after capture.
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  #5  
09-21-2023, 05:20 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
I'm in PAL land, so I can't vouch for NTSC, but I assume, given IO-Data is a Japanese company, that it would work with NTSC as well.
PAL and NTSC are both IRE 0, and have levels/luma that match. That's the problem NTSC in North America is not Japan (NTSC-J), and how well the card handles this is unknown. Most captures cards do well at one format, and "also do" others at lesser quality. Same for TBCs, and obviously capture cards. That's the reason I specify items as PAL-only and NTSC-only, in my marketplace listings, even if the card/TBC "does both". Some actually do both well (or well enough), but some not. Besides values, there's also offset and overscan noise to worry about.

Quote:
There is also some conjecture about where it actually gets the video signal from.
There's no really no conjecture around OBS. It's digital streaming recording software, not analog capture software. OBS captures from within the display preview layers, not using a direct signal from the card. That causes issues.

Quote:
If VDub doesn't work for you, another option for capture is AmarecTV.
But this must be added: do not try VirtualDub at defaults, see any issue, then give up. Wrong approach. Most capture cards need a tweak to the VirtualDub settings, and then you're fine. AmaRecTV also has some debate about how the signal is processed.

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  #6  
09-21-2023, 08:21 AM
eag3ye eag3ye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
PAL and NTSC are both IRE 0, and have levels/luma that match. That's the problem NTSC in North America is not Japan (NTSC-J), and how well the card handles this is unknown. Most captures cards do well at one format, and "also do" others at lesser quality. Same for TBCs, and obviously capture cards. That's the reason I specify items as PAL-only and NTSC-only, in my marketplace listings, even if the card/TBC "does both". Some actually do both well (or well enough), but some not. Besides values, there's also offset and overscan noise to worry about.


There's no really no conjecture around OBS. It's digital streaming recording software, not analog capture software. OBS captures from within the display preview layers, not using a direct signal from the card. That causes issues.


But this must be added: do not try VirtualDub at defaults, see any issue, then give up. Wrong approach. Most capture cards need a tweak to the VirtualDub settings, and then you're fine. AmaRecTV also has some debate about how the signal is processed.
Thanks for chiming in, lordsmurf. I figured out very quickly after discovering this forum why you're famous around these parts.

I honestly had no idea there was a distinction between US NTSC and NTSC from other countries. I always assumed NTSC was NTSC. That’s very good to know.

Is there a specific capture card you'd recommend? It would have to be Win11 compatible and preferably USB 3... I know that's limiting me to less than stellar options, but it's what I have to work with unfortunately. What do you think of/know about the Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle? I've read decent things about it, and it looks to be fairly affordable in the used market.

Someday I'd like to build a legacy workstation with an ATI card as that seems to achieve the best results if I've been understanding correctly, but I dragged my feet on getting a new mattress for the better part of this past year. I think my wife would have questions if UPS started showing up with old computers and VCRs.

Last edited by eag3ye; 09-21-2023 at 08:39 AM.
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  #7  
09-24-2023, 06:49 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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Quote:
"PAL and NTSC are both IRE 0, and have levels/luma that match. That's the problem NTSC in North America is not Japan (NTSC-J), and how well the card handles this is unknown. Most captures cards do well at one format, and "also do" others at lesser quality. Same for TBCs, and obviously capture cards. That's the reason I specify items as PAL-only and NTSC-only, in my marketplace listings, even if the card/TBC "does both". Some actually do both well (or well enough), but some not. Besides values, there's also offset and overscan noise to worry about."
WikiPedia:
Technical definition
Japan implemented the NTSC standard with slight differences. The black and blanking levels of the NTSC-J signal are identical to each other[10] (both at 0 IRE, similar to the PAL video standard), while in American NTSC the black level is slightly higher (7.5 IRE) than blanking level - because of the way this appears in the waveform, the higher black level is also called pedestal. This small difference doesn't cause any incompatibility problems, but needs to be compensated by a slight change of the TV brightness setting in order to achieve proper images.

I guess you mean NTSC-J not NTSC you could confuse people not mentioning -J

A scope on the video signal also makes things clear for that matter, lifted, crushed or clipped depending the situation.

Last edited by Eric-Jan; 09-24-2023 at 07:18 AM.
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  #8  
09-24-2023, 02:51 PM
eag3ye eag3ye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-Jan View Post
"PAL and NTSC are both IRE 0, and have levels/luma that match. That's the problem NTSC in North America is not Japan (NTSC-J), and how well the card handles this is unknown. Most captures cards do well at one format, and "also do" others at lesser quality. Same for TBCs, and obviously capture cards. That's the reason I specify items as PAL-only and NTSC-only, in my marketplace listings, even if the card/TBC "does both". Some actually do both well (or well enough), but some not. Besides values, there's also offset and overscan noise to worry about."

WikiPedia:
Technical definition
Japan implemented the NTSC standard with slight differences. The black and blanking levels of the NTSC-J signal are identical to each other[10] (both at 0 IRE, similar to the PAL video standard), while in American NTSC the black level is slightly higher (7.5 IRE) than blanking level - because of the way this appears in the waveform, the higher black level is also called pedestal. This small difference doesn't cause any incompatibility problems, but needs to be compensated by a slight change of the TV brightness setting in order to achieve proper images.

I guess you mean NTSC-J not NTSC you could confuse people not mentioning -J

A scope on the video signal also makes things clear for that matter, lifted, crushed or clipped depending the situation.
Thatís all really interesting. So basically just adjusting the picture settings might achieve a desirable result?

Also, I bought a Pinnacle 500-USB years ago and never actually used it. Is that device any good? Does it have Win10 or 11 drivers? Hereís a pic of the device I have in case thereís some variation with model number Iím not aware of.

4D1E9B25-2461-466C-97D4-9F3D5A77A314.jpg
You must be logged in to view this content; either login or register for the forum. The attached screen shots, before/after images, photos and graphics are created/posted for the benefit of site members. And you are invited to join our digital media community.


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  #9  
09-24-2023, 03:09 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eag3ye View Post
So basically just adjusting the picture settings might achieve a desirable result?
No, not correct.

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  #10  
09-24-2023, 03:36 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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The hardware/software should have all the correct specs/features to start with, otherwise it's baked into the setup and can't be corrected,(without loosing quality elsewhere) it's hard to tell when consumer hardware is used, even firmware can have faulty settings i guess.
It's like taking a picture, thats too dark or too bright, you can't correct that afterwards, something that isn't there you can't generate something better of it.
You get what you pay for, the devil is in the details...

Last edited by Eric-Jan; 09-24-2023 at 03:53 PM.
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