Well, that CD burn installed beautifully, prompted me to restart, but on restart, the old Microsoft driver remained – what a drag. I also see that doing so didn't resolve the other missing driver issues either (pictures).
I will uninstall everything and try and see if the Catalyst 6.2 driver will do the trick. After that, I might need a reset and new strategy.
So after uninstalling all ATI and doing a Driver Clear with my new favourite software Driver Cleaner Pro, I tried the catalyst 6.2 install and can report confidently that it was not the right one (image a...looks at those graphics, wow). ChatGPT was wrong again.
I did another uninstall and Clean and restarted. On boot, lo and behold the Windows Driver finally gave up and I was given the Generic VGA driver instead, on the back of which, I decided to try and install from the 180-V01084-100 disc again.
This time on restart, I again had nothing compatible, which I suppose means that 180-V01084-100 is also not the answer to the ATI AIW Radeon 9000.
I decided to see if I could just manually point the machine to the driver on the disk and to my surprise, that actually got me to where the display driver installed – the actual ATI one! (image b, c, d). Doing this was a little sketchy and I had to ignore loads of warnings, but it appears like it succeeded.
The issue now is that it now can't find or even categorise the other parts of the card. They all just say "unknown device" without a category (image e).
So it feels like I did something wrong again. Deep breaths.
there was a suggestion that some of the certificates in the installers expired by 2019, so setting the CPU clock back to 2003 may help. Is this the BIOS level clock or the Windows date / time ?
So, I suppose it's not over yet. I will try and uninstall everything again and clean out the drivers and see if those other discs will work. Any suggestions, please let me know!
The actual software install has been the worst part of AIW cards aside from finding suitable AGP motherboards for me - sometimes it just doesn't like to play nice and it's hard to tell what, if anything, was done wrong. It's even harder if you want ATI MMC (multimedia center) to also work which is useful if you are planning to make direct (non-lossless) MPEG2 captures. Eventually I got mine working, but I couldn't tell you the exact order of steps that actually got it working in the end or if those steps and versions would even be the same if installing on a different computer.
So all I can really say is that I wish you good luck!
I just read through the whole thread about Master Tape's exploits trying to get his 2 different AIW 9000s to work where jwillis84 was helping and trying out all those combinations of SP0, SP1 and SP2 with the G...-100 and G...-200 drivers. That thread just ends, apparently without a solution. So I looked for any later posts by Master Tape to see if he resolved it.
Voila! Eureka! and all that... It appears he did, but his success is hidden deep in the interminably long "ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers..." thread. Here's what finally worked for him.
The original post by juiceycow is post #208 on the previous page (for me) of the same thread. He has other posts prior to that one on that thread.
I'd say it's worth a try even if your information indicates that the 6.11 package doesn't support the 9000, I think it will, and juiceycow and Master Tape seem to support that. In fact, that driver package is what is (was???) working on my even older AIW Radeon 7200, the original Radeon AIW. Catalyst 6.11 comes with MMC 9.01 or 9.02, I can't remember, but you won't need that.
BW
PS: Based on my having read essentially every post on Digitalfaq since mid 2019, I swear that the AIW 9000s are the most troublesome to get working right. At least that's my impression.
PPS: My old Radeon 7200 may have just bit the dust (or something else in that old system has died). I dug it out to try to help here, and first, the BIOS back-up battery was dead so I had to replace that and then try to remember how to set up the CPU and memory speeds in the BIOS to work right. I finally got it going and it was just running but the now display is dead (as has been happening occasionally ever since I've been trying to get it going again). Time marches on...
In terms of "most difficult to install", I would somewhat agree.
- PCI/USB have less installers, but require a fresh OS install, stripped, ideally (for ease) with ATI non-AIW graphics
- AGP 7000s are generally easiest compatibility, don't requires fresh OS, but the driver combos can get screwy.
- AGP 8500 is PITA
- AGP 9000s are probably "more difficult" than 7000s, but not necessarily. Drivers are actually somewhat easier, best from the install CD (which everybody has lost, of course). The bigger issue with 9000s is shielding, proprietary dongles, etc.
- PCIe is just too many problems + quality degrading aspects
My own pair of AGP AIW have failed. Yay.
- IDE HDD crashed on one, Asrock motherboard SATA ports are not reliable. Need new board.
- I made the mistake of moving the TBSC to another slot, and something got screwed up. It now emits noise. The card is fine elsewhere, just not there. So I'm thinking drivers. I want to ditch the IDE there anyway, boot from SATA SSD. So another OS install.
I still have the PCI AIW working, my recent-years SATA/SSD builds.
I lack time right now, otherwise I'd help in this thread more.
I keep hoping @rickface fixes it before I have that time.
AIW really are the best quality, but setup/install has gotten worse over the years. The reason is abuse over the years, lack of caring. Lots of bad AIW cards out there, missing discs, missing cables, bad cables, etc. Sometimes recent hardware is not compatible with the AIW, even if with the motherboards. So it's not the AIW at fault, but user/owner error, which carries down to new users/owners (trying to install their own capture systems).
When the new site is up, one of my first actions will be to sort my AIW archive, and upload it. I have probably 50 discs, and I wasn't the best at labeling myself. So I don't always know which disc came with which card.
Back again with a quick follow-up after several clean restores (Windows XP SP2, French edition).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37
Voila! Eureka! and all that... It appears he did, but his success is hidden deep in the interminably long "ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers..." thread. Here's what finally worked for him.
I was so hopeful and appreciative to read this...thinking, could it have been so simple all along!? I tried it and sadly, the versions on the AMD site didn't have the same effect on my end. I didn't start with a fresh instal of SP2, but I did start with a restored version (which in my case was a fresh install + the essentials e.g. Direct x 9c). Thanks for digging!
What’s working:
Display driver installs fine under Catalyst 5.13 and 6.11
AGP shows as 4x in Catalyst; card is properly detected
Catalyst Control Center specs look OK to me ? (attached)
What’s not working:
WDM capture components still throwing Code 10 errors (Rage Theater Video, Audio, Crossbar, TV Tuner)
This happens with both Catalyst 6.11 WDM and 5.13 WDM 6238
I've also tried installing VIA Hyperion 4-in-1 drivers (4.56v). The AGP/GART interface shows up correctly in Device Manager but that didn't fix anything.
I have been restoring from Hiren’s (Macrium) to a clean backup before each new attempt, but no luck as of yet.
I suppose getting the display driver to work is a win, but the Code 10 on all the capture elements is doing my head in.
@lordsmurf – SATA / SSD on XP sounds amazing, but feels like I should crawl before I walk. I tried a SATA DVD burner after I bricked the one that came with the machine, but something about that didn't sit well with my system. I had to revert back to an IDE boot disk with an additional SATA internal drive.
I have read around that the Code 10 error isn't uncommon, but havent found the thread yet with the silver bullet. Does anyone have any other ideas on what I could try? Is this a motherboard or BIOs setting issue?
If I understand correctly, you have now successfully installed the recommended drivers, both display and WDM for both Catalyst 5.13 and 6.11. So we're over that hurdle, but just to confront another one: the code 10 errors for the devices supported by the WDM drivers. The ones we need working to capture video.
As you, I have now done a bit of digging into the AIW code 10 errors, especially around the WDM devices and as you say there is no silver bullet, just vague references to hardware failures or hardware/driver incompatibilities. One apparent fix was to physically modify the card to make it fit better into the AGP socket. It seems odd that it would not have caused more basic display problems than just errors for the WDM devices, but who knows...
Others discussions seemed to conclude that these were just "bad cards" for whatever reason. I certainly think another (for you) bad card is possible and certainly unfortunate if that's the case. As I said, my old AIW 7200 just bit the dust after a couple years just sitting installed but unused in a previously working PC. I've had it since new. It was never shipped poorly or otherwise abused. It just quit. I replaced it with an old AIW 7500 and now the system is at least booting up with a display, not a black screen.
It's also possible that for some reason the WDM drivers are just not happy working with your motherboard and it's drivers. VIA chipsets and their 4-in-1 driver packs were seldom anyone's favorites being very hit and miss for various CPU's. Often, each new 4-in-1 would fix one problem and cause another, kind of like ATI drivers often did. Together they could be a nightmare. But they were cheap and quite common.
As to what to try next, I'm mostly out of suggestions. Maybe look very closely at the AGP slot to AIW connection, alignment, etc. Sometimes the motherboard installation in the case can make the card fit poorly or as was stated in one of the discussions, the card simply did not fit the slot well and needed to be modified to align and fit properly.
Maybe try to install the earlier suggested 180-V01084-100 drivers OVER the top of the now working and installed Cat 5.13 or 6.11 drivers??? My understanding is that you were never able to get these drivers to install over the automatically MS installed ones.
If none of this works, I guess you could try another AGP AIW card with your current PC, OR build/buy another AGP based PC that doesn't use a VIA chipset.
Lastly, as I've said before, I don't understand the hate for the PCIe cards, IF you have the complete package including the correct "silver stab" connectors AND you just want to do lossless capture with VirtualDub. If I was you I'd look into acquiring a motherboard/PC that is PCIe based and can or is running Windows XP and give that PCIe card a try.
If you do decide to completely give up on this card without ever attempting to install XP from scratch first - which I would have resorted to before instead spending all that time on the bulk of the troubleshooting steps you’ve described - I’d be happy to buy it from you for the cost of the postage.
Thanks again for the thoughtful responses. You’re absolutely right — the display driver is now working reliably under both Catalyst 5.13 and 6.11. AGP is reporting as 4x in Catalyst, and the card is properly detected.
The capture components (the most important part) seem to be the unsolvable problem. I keep thinking if I have the right combo of Service Pack and Catalyst version that, all of a sudden, it will work, but so far nothing. Every WDM version I’ve tried throws Code 10 on Rage Theater Video, Audio, TV Tuner and Crossbar — the full stack.
What I’ve tried so far:
Catalyst 5.13 WDM 6238
Catalyst 6.11 WDM
VIA Hyperion 4-in-1 (4.56v) – installed both before and after Catalyst, AGP/GART shows up, no change
Multiple clean restores via Macrium before each attempt
Most recently - a fresh installation of Windows XP Pro SP0 (English version) and a full instal of the 180_G01445_100 disc provided by and confirmed working with this card by jwillis84 in another thread.
@7jlong - the rollbacks weren't fresh instals, but they were really close to fresh instals. I am now in the completely fresh XP phase now, so we'll see!
Nothing working so far; for each, it seems the display installs fine, capture drivers fail with Code 10.
I also tried flipping AGP BIOS settings (2x, 4x, Fast Write off/on, Aperture 64/128) – caused boot loops and BIOS hangs, had to reset multiple times just to get back in (this machine is very touchy).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37
VIA chipsets and their 4-in-1 driver packs were seldom anyone's favorites
I didn't really want to believe that it was the machine's fault initially, always assumed it was just my lack of experience with PCs that got me here, but recently I started thinking maybe this could be it and dug a little deeper to find (including in this forum), that apparently my motherboard/chipset was notoriously rubbish with ATI, especially for AIW. Feel unfair, but in the meantime (because I found one readily available and nearby) I picked up another machine (Asustek P4P800, CPU Pentium 4 @3,20Mh) that was reported to be better with AGP, just in case I accidentally to toss the VIA one out the window.
If none of this works, then it's going to definitely be the PCie route you mentioned.
Last things to try on this machine before I give up:
Fresh XP SP1 and SP2 installs on the original machine
Test Omega Drivers 2.6.42 (Catalyst 5.2-based) — supposedly tweaks WDM compatibility (found it here: https://thandor.net/object/1076)
Continue testing install order: Catalyst first, then 4-in-1, and vice versa
Will report back soon. Appreciate everyone’s help.
The Intel chipset based P4P800 should be a better base to build on. If your AIW 9000 still has the same failure mode, I’d think we’d have to conclude the card is just bad.
Hi all, it's me, back again! I fought that VIA chipset computer and lost, now have installed everything afresh on the new system and am still getting the Code 10 errors. As you said, maybe it's just a card that will work no more, but I wish I could run some kind of test that could conclude this without me guessing.
I read so many things about AGP settings in the BIOS and sensitivities around this card specifically that I want to believe their is still hope, but I am losing that hope now.
Here's what I have done since the last round.
Final Attempts on the First (VIA) PC:
Restored system via Macrium Reflect (XP SP2, French).
Attempted alternate WDM driver versions, including those from Catalyst 6.2 and 6-13.
Verified proper installs of:
DirectX 9.0c
NET 2.0
VIA Hyperion 4-in-1 (4.56v)
Result: Experienced worsening instability: BIOS hangs, restore failures, and eventual system breakdown.
Switch to "New" PC (Intel-based, ASUS P4P800):
Specs:
Pentium 4 @ 3.2GHz, 4GB RAM
Intel 865PE chipset (AGP 8x)
Samsung 250GB SSD + additional SATA drives
DVD-ROM (& Floppy)
Successfully installed Windows XP Pro SP2 (English) from clean disc.
Initial set up before trying catalyst:
Installed:
Intel INF chipset drivers (865PE)
DirectX 9.0c (June 2010 Redist) from Microsoft
WinCDEmu for ISO mounting
Created a full Macrium backup after base setup.
Finally installed Catalyst 180_G01445_200
Mounted ISO and ran custom install, selecting:
Display Driver
ATI Control Panel
Multimedia Drivers (WDM)
Unified Component
MMC 8.x
Skipped DirectX + DVD decoder
Install appeared successful; rebooted system.
Results:
The display driver working perfectly (again) - AIW 9000 Pro recognized, 4X AGP enabled.
DirectX verified: 9.0c with all acceleration enabled.
Device Manager clean except for WDM components.
So now I am feeling a little beaten. I know I have read something about BIOS settings helping get things moving, but with this happening on a second PC, I feel like it is hard to believe it will change anything.
Has anyone ever heard of things like disabling fast writes, changing the AGP mode or aperture size / checking the voltage making any difference?
I could still try installing Catalyst 5.13 + WDM 6238 over the current drivers or also installing those Omega Drivers (v. 2.6.42 based on Catalyst 5.2) I found?
Again, I don’t have much new to add. Unfortunately, I think you’ve got another bad card.
As I understand it, you can now install both the display and WDM drivers for the card on two different systems, and the result is the same: Display drivers work but WDM drivers give Code 10 errors. I’m curious as to where and how the Code 10 errors actually show up. From what you’ve described it seems that Catalyst Control Center (CCC) thinks the WDM drivers are correctly installed, but then the Code 10 errors show up somewhere else. Is this in Device Manager or when you try to run something (TV, MMC, vDub) that needs the WDM drivers to work? Maybe some screen shots of CCC and Device manager (or wherever the Code 10 errors are reported) for a specific driver set would be helpful, but I’m not hopeful.
You’re now way more experienced and knowledgeable about the various driver options than I am. I can’t really recommend any but the ones that others here on this forum appear to have had success with. From here (4000+) mile away, I’d be putting my bets on either the 6.11 Catalyst package or the 180-V01084-100 drivers 7jlong has experience with. Have you tried either of these driver packages from a fresh Macrium base install on the Intel system?
Nope, not really. Both the driver package that I mentioned and the importance of starting from scratch (restore discs do not at all equal a fresh installation) were largely dismissed, so without those two steps in place, I got nothing. Because I would have done both of those steps first. My mobo is a close cousin of that ASUS (P4C800-E) and I can't imagine screwing around in BIOS or obscure AGP settings to make this work.
At this stage my advice is: Cut your losses. Get on LordSmurf's short list for a USB AIW and call it a day.
Nope, not really. Both the driver package that I mentioned and the importance of starting from scratch (restore discs do not at all equal a fresh installation) were largely dismissed, so without those two steps in place, I got nothing. Because I would have done both of those steps first. My mobo is a close cousin of that ASUS (P4C800-E) and I can't imagine screwing around in BIOS or obscure AGP settings to make this work.
At this stage my advice is: Cut your losses. Get on LordSmurf's short list for a USB AIW and call it a day.
Sorry if it seemed like I ignored your advice; looking back, I see that I didn't respond directly to some of your posts, but that's wasn't intentional. These multi-thread replies get complex (for me) and there were often parts of your replies that were discussed, which I followed up on. I really appreciated the notes, did ended up quitting that first card on your advice and then went first to the driver pack you linked.
The clean wipes of the system didn't come until later for me, but I did indeed try that too (on with multiple versions of XP now on two computers).
In the end, I think you are correct, perhaps it's just another dud card, and I am spinning wheels. It's a hard pill to swallow after all that time. I believe they call it the sunk cost fallacy.
Just came back from the US yesterday and brought the attached back with me (all CDs and cables included), so I have a new card to try (and I will install afresh the copy of Windows XP SP2).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37
From what you’ve described it seems that Catalyst Control Center (CCC) thinks the WDM drivers are correctly installed, but then the Code 10 errors show up somewhere else. Is this in Device Manager or when you try to run something (TV, MMC, vDub) that needs the WDM drivers to work?
Yeah, device manager was showing all capture related drivers as Code 10. The few times I ran CCC and tried to run the test on the system, it gave me similar errors. I never had a successful start up with any part of the capture drivers working.
In fact, The last few restarts it felt like the display driver also started tweaking out (like I wasn't getting anything on the monitor, replaced the cable, but it continued). I am crossing my fingers that the card was just at the end of its day.
Will keep you posted with the next trials! I am hoping to install the card tomorrow, need to reinstall windows XP first.
And for good measure and future reference (as I know I had been hunting for some clear images of the original boxes), I have created some archive scans of the original ATI 9600 guide (which actually has some good information on it) as well as a readable copy of the (NTSC) box. I should probably upload to archive.org too, but I spend more time here, so...
At last! It looks like everything installed without Code 10 errors using disc 180-V01085-100 (which came with the box). First try this time even! (though, until I am capturing, I am trying not to get too excited).
Just for anyone future person starting with a AIW 9600 and similar chipset, the process was:
Reinstall Windows XP SP1 from scratch.
Install the Intel INF chipset drivers for my motherboard (I had read that was advisable with AGP cards on my board)
Restart
Install DirectX 9.0c (June 2010)
Restart
Uninstall the Microsoft auto-installed Display drivers, then before restarting...
Install the ATI drivers from disc (Catalyst 180-V01085-100). (I just chose Express install and included all the garbage as well just to be sure.)
Onwards and upwards! Thanks for all the help so far
I just fired everything up and tested it for the first time and I am getting some funky results. It appears that the capture driver is installed, but isn't recognised by VirtualDub.
Some details to note –
1. The player is a Sony EV-S9000E (which I have read from multiple sources, plays NTSC without issue. Also appears to have some kind of built in TBC?)
2. The card is an NTSC card (and my tapes are all NTSC).
3. The original CD was used for the instal (so the driver *should* have been correct unless it failed silently).
4. Everything appears to be there in the device manager?
Has anyone experienced anything like this? Should I try and instal the WDM drivers again from the CD? I have attached some shots to confirm.
I was really pulling for you hear, cheering in the background. I never posted recently, but I read.
Quote:
I just fired everything up and tested it for the first time and I am getting some funky results. It appears that the capture driver is installed, but isn't recognised by VirtualDub.
Has anyone experienced anything like this? Should I try and instal the WDM drivers again from the CD? I have attached some shots to confirm.
Yes.
The hack-ish install methods always do this, such as force-installing in Windows Vista/7 x86. But this is not that sort of issue. Not exactly, just close.
Sometimes a failed driver install. Sometimes Windows silently overwrites ATI drivers with it's own crappy Microsoft versions. Did you verify the driver, in Hardware Manager?
This is not common, but happens. (And with anything, not just ATI AIW cards, or ATI cards, or capture cards, or graphics cards. Anything. Over the decades, I've seen this with scanners, printers, etc.)
Could this be an SP1 vs SP2 issue? I recall you looked into that issue when trying to load the drivers for the AIW9000.
LS's suggestion to use Device Manager to determine the exact drivers installed at this point makes sense. Or if it's installed, Catalyst Control Center (CCC) should give you that info as well as you've done before. You can also look at the files on the installation ISO to see if the display driver it is trying to install matches the one that Device Manager shows is actually installed. The "(Microsoft Corporation)" verbiage for the WDM drivers installed is suspicious.
I don't think you can directly mount an ISO with WinXP like you can in Win10 as shown in the attached image. You probably need a utility program to do so as shown here.
Don't let the CD "autorun" and then use the utility to access the ISO. Once you navigate to the correct .INF file you want to open it in Notepad rather than "run" it by double clicking. This shows the Driver version (as highlighted) it is trying to install. The path should be something like:
CD_disc name/install/Driver/2KXP_INF/CX_xxxxx.inf
Otherwise you may have to go back to a clean install, document the drivers installed by MS and then install the desired ATI drivers and then recheck Device Manager to see that the driver versions have changed.
BW
PS: I couldn't find a similar way to determine the WDM driver version number in the ISO, just the display driver.
PPS: There may be a way to "view" or "browse" the install CD from CCC. Again, I can't recall exactly...
