Compare DV vs. ATI AIW vs. Osprey capture?

[Jamestq]

Here are three screen shots from a HI8 NTSC tape shot with a Sony CCD-TRV 128, first is DV capture though a DCR-TRV103 digital 8 camera. Second is the ATI All in wonder AGP card method and lastly a more modern PCIe capture card the View Cast Osprey 206e. I cant decide which looks better I would really appreciate some opinions and analysis.

[aramkolt]

This isn't a detailed analysis, but the luma levels appear most appropriate with the DV capture. DV might have a slight green hue to it overall for whatever reason, but that's just eyeballing it.

I'd have to say I like the Osprey the least for some reason.

Others will be able to tell you more if you can post short video clips rather than screenshots.

[lordsmurf]

The DV is
- definitely distorting AR (aspect ratio)
- as-expected giving slight color tint changes
- seems to be underexposing, possibly for misguided/wrong-headed "auto exposure" reasons
- and you can literally see the macroblocks, even on a still, in the dark underexposed patches

The ATI AIW tend to be very precise on color/contrast accuracy, so I'm guessing the tape is just dark. The Osprey values confirm it. Maybe still a tad washed and hot, but that can be tuned down in the software proc amp. (It's within tolerances, not yet needing hardware proc amp.)

The Osprey is a tad soft/blurry, and yet also adds some tiny sharpness seen in ringing/halo. That's odd.

ATI = 1st choice
Osprey = 2nd
DV = no choice

[Gary34]

Quote:

Maybe still a tad washed and hot, but that can be tuned down in the software proc amp. (It's within tolerances, not yet needing hardware proc amp.)

If someone has a digital proc amp inside there TBC that they like is it a good idea to always use that or if the values are not too far out of range should we use our software proc amp in our card. I know it clips details in the cards with most cards when the values are outside of limited range YUV but if the values aren’t too far off should I use my software proc amp sometimes. My thought process is it would save ware and tare on the hardware proc amp. I don’t touch my software proc amp because of my audio mixer and TBC proc amp. Do you think that is a good idea or should I sometimes use the software proc amp if the values aren’t too far off and I am not trying to expand values? I’m thinking the answer is keep doing what I’m doing with that but I’m just making sure.

[lordsmurf]

The main issue that I've observed (starting back in the early 2000s) is that the "previewed values" for software proc amp don't always 100% match the actual captured values. Because, as I've long said, driver/software "proc amp" is really just altering post-digitized values. It's not a pre-amp, but post-amp.

However, also understand that drivers/software is often responsible for the preview you're seeing. Those are not necessarily 100% faithful to the analog input -- and, in fact, rarely are. Some are well regarded for being very faithful (many/most AIW), and some are known to molest/abuse the values (Easycaps, Elgatos, etc).

So, understanding all of this, nuanced adjustments are fine. The problem comes from non-nuanced adjustments. The actual adjustments can vary further from previewed, and often has nasty side effects. Because, again, rough digital manipulation is going on, not smooth analog adjustments. (No such thing as "smooth digital" coming off analog consumer videotape formats.)

Proc amps inside TBCs, especially that rare-gen TBC-3000 DataVideo you have, are more analog than digital (and I really want to trace the route on it sometime; but low priority for my time use). Those are always preferable, even if nuanced. Minor adjustments are mostly acceptable when no actual proc amp is available.

I know you're skittish of overusing hardware, "wear and tear" reasons. Me too. But that's why we bought gear. To use it, not put it on a shelf. TBCs are not status symbols, not collectible (vintage actin figures, etc). Just be careful, realize the risks, and understand there are people out there (many whom I know) that can fix problems. Not free, of course -- it's not Star Trek (even Star Trek wasn't Star Trek -- looking at you, Feringi!)

Long question.
Long answer.

TL;DR = keep doing what you're doing.

[Jamestq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

The DV is
- definitely distorting AR (aspect ratio)
- as-expected giving slight color tint changes
- seems to be underexposing, possibly for misguided/wrong-headed "auto exposure" reasons
- and you can literally see the macroblocks, even on a still, in the dark underexposed patches

The ATI AIW tend to be very precise on color/contrast accuracy, so I'm guessing the tape is just dark. The Osprey values confirm it. Maybe still a tad washed and hot, but that can be tuned down in the software proc amp. (It's within tolerances, not yet needing hardware proc amp.)

The Osprey is a tad soft/blurry, and yet also adds some tiny sharpness seen in ringing/halo. That's odd.

ATI = 1st choice
Osprey = 2nd
DV = no choice

I noticed the blur on the Osprey too. Its super convenient of being able to capture on my main editing PC but i'm going to sell it. I love the way the ATI looks the colors and contrast is exactly what I want. I think I can see more noise as well on the 260e. Its crazy to me how some people think DV is better than using s video through a capture card but i can see some uses for it if you want to go for a certain look.

Regarding the Osprey sharpness, in the proc amp if you set the sharpness to anything above 0 it adds a noticeable checkered pattern sharpness grain to the image.

Thanks for recommending the AIW BTW Smurf.

[Gary34]

That’s a good answer. I’m glad you took the time to explain the reasoning behind that choice.

Quote:

I know you're skittish of overusing hardware, "wear and tear" reasons. Me too. But that's why we bought gear.

Good point. Those buttons seem tough anyways.

Quote:

Just be careful, realize the risks, and understand there are people out there (many whom I know) that can fix problems. Not free, of course -- it's not Star Trek (even Star Trek wasn't Star Trek -- looking at you, Feringi!)

This site helps a lot with the being careful and realizing the risk. There are some things I wouldn’t of done without this site that help preserve gear. I got what you’re saying. Don’t ham hand it. I’ll get in touch with you if I have an issue. It’s working great right now.