Sony DCR-TRV530 heads dirty, but not dirty?

[Blacktape]

Good evening,

I am having a strange problem with my Sony DCR-TRV530 that I've never witnessed before in a tape player, and am hoping you folks have an idea what might be happening:

I've been using this camcorder for a couple years now transferring my family's home videos off of Video 8 tapes. Most of these were recorded between 1990 and 1999 and have never been played since they were recorded. I've converted about 15 out of 30 without issue, but one from 1990 clogged the heads up as I had to clean them due to no video. Afterwards, it played video fine but the audio via AV Out to a Diamond VC500 started crackling intermittently unless I rewound the tape and played the same section again.

I let it alone for a year while life took my attention, but tonight decided to give it a shot again. I picked a tape from 1993 and began transferring but this time the camera will play for about ten minutes and then give symptoms of clogged video heads. The video starts to show more and more lines and drop outs until it goes to a blue screen, then the audio drops out (see attached image). HOWEVER, if I eject the tape and put it right back in at the same spot, the video and audio play perfectly again! (see second attached image) Then it repeats roughly ten minutes later.

Has anyone had this happen before? I know Video 8 tapes can give trouble with shedding particles and the like, but I've never seen a tape player that fixed clogged heads via a simple eject/reinsertion of the tape. Alignment issue, perhaps?

Other supporting info, in case this matters:

• PC: Home-built Windows 11 machine, 32 GB RAM
• Camcorder: See title
• Tape: Sony Standard Grade MP Video 8 cassette from 1993
• Converter: Firewire (temporary while I sort out Diamond VC500 issues with Windows 11, it was working...)
• Capture Software: Virtualdub 1.9.11

[latreche34]

Clean the tape path.

[lordsmurf]

With certain Video8/Hi8 tape stock, it can be the tape degrading, and clogging the heads or tape path. NJRoadfan has discussed this in past posts on the forum.

[timtape]

They're not the same frame or seemingly even close to it. This forum can handle short video uploads. Why not upload the same segment from two separate captures of it? We can often tell more from the video than just a frame which we can isolate at our end anyway.

How did you clean the heads. Unless they have the skills most people shouldnt go any deeper than using a recommended cleaning cassette as per the instructions. A proper skilled manual clean of the full tape path may be needed.

[Blacktape]

Thanks for the info, I'll look up some of NJRoadfan's posts to learn what I can.

Do note that I have NOT cleaned the camcorder since this started happening, I cleaned it over a year ago when a separate tape shed and clogged it. That tape has since been transferred and not reinserted into this camera since then. I cleaned this camcorder's heads using a chamois swab on a stick that I ordered in a VCR cleaning kit from Studio Sound Electronics back when they sold such things. I've successfully cleaned a number of VCRs over the past decade so I am certain I used the correct technique. I even checked out the VCR repair/maintenance books our library still has on shelf (for some reason).

I will look into getting those clips for yinz. I didn't think they'd offer much since there is such a jump from bad to good but will work on that. I was mostly surprised that simply ejecting the tape, reinserting it and replaying the same section resulted in a 100% improvement, so was curious if you folks thought it was a failing camcorder or just a bad tape.

-- merged --

Alrighty, you wanted some identical frames to look at, I have some identical frames for you to look at. Please see attached video clips which show the same 9 second section of video before and after ejecting the tape and reinserting it. I did not clean the heads or do anything else to it.

[lordsmurf]

Eww, yeah...

Oxide shed heads clogs can be pervasive, and not actually cleaned very easily.

It may need dismantle, those forehead-band microscope goggles, and plenty of fine clean non-cotton swabs and instruments.

To me, it's not worth the hassle. $200 gets a "new" (to you) Hi8 camera, probably even better model. Unlike VCRs, TBCs, and most capture cards, you can still find good condition cameras for low prices on eBay.

VC500 is a lousy capture card, so many known issues, so replacing it should be the "fix" for it. DV with a D8 camera was just losing quality.

So Hi8 camcorder + better ATI/Pinnacle type card will resolve multiple issues you having.

[Blacktape]

Ugh, figured that was the case but wanted to be sure. I will try cleaning the camera anyway since I have the tools and nothing to lose by trying. Funny thing is, I transferred 16 more minutes of video from the same tape/camera that evening and didn't have the same issue again. Gotta love analog...

Understood about DV and the VC500. DV was being used an experiment because Windows 11 finally killed the driver for my VC500 (just shows a green and purple image now). VC500 still works with my Windows 8 and 10 machines so I'll probably just switch to using those.

The VC500 has been satisfying my expectations in video quality, but I have considered getting a different capture card. I see you have a USB Pinnacle one for sale that is tempting. Just might consider it...

[timtape]

Thanks for the video uploads. In the one frame or segment is an acceptable picture lower down, and terrible picture near the top with multiple dropouts (the horizontal white lines). It cannot just be dirty video heads or just dirty heads. If it was you wouldnt get any clear sections of picture. You certainly wouldnt get the much better picture on reinserting the tape without cleaning the heads again.

The noise is mostly towards the top of the frame. Possibly the entry tape guide is only fully engaging the tape with the video drum intermittently. This mechanical problem is not uncommon especially on older gear not recently maintained.

Unless you can have someone look at it you may have to try another camera, and possibly others. Media digitisation shops and archives all over the world have the same issue in transferring tape based media. Unlike say VHS, these little camcorder tape formats are more difficult for multiple reasons.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacktape

The VC500 has been satisfying my expectations in video quality, but I have considered getting a different capture card. I see you have a USB Pinnacle one for sale that is tempting. Just might consider it...

The worst issue with the VC500 is the over-aggressive AGC, or random brightening/darkening of the image. Sometimes people claim to not see it, but it's usually very obvious on their samples. There's several past posts in the forum on this.

[vwestlife]

Is it a Sony Hi8 tape? 12voltvids on YouTube has done videos demonstrating how Sony's early Hi8 tape formulation has not aged well and is now shedding oxide, requiring frequent head cleanings when attempting to transfer them. He even sometimes leaves the cover off of a camcorder so he can lightly scrape the head drum with his fingernail (!) to clean it without needing to constantly eject the tape.

Cleaning with alcohol and swabs doesn't help much because the oxide from these tapes consists of metal particles, and alcohol doesn't dissolve metal. You need to use a dry-type cleaning tape, as he explains here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GP0s5g7sOE#t=8m29s

[timtape]

Again the lower half of the picture here is almost perfect. It can't be dirty heads. You don't understand how it works.

[Blacktape]

Thanks for the additional replies. Mr. Tim is onto something. I tried the tape in question in a Sony CCD-TR67 camcorder that my family has owned since new and found that apart from a few seconds of clicking in the audio at the start of each clip, the tape plays perfectly. I was able to transfer 40 minutes of content without issue. Seems like the TRV530 has some sort of transport issue that gets worse as it warms up. It came from a coworker who used it in a trail camera apparatus, so who knows how many hours are on it or what it saw while in use. Pity, cause the TBC was nice! Oh well, time for another one.

The tape in question is a Sony MP Standard Grade tape (blue label) from 1993, so not a Hi8 one. So far none of the tapes I have transferred appear to have been bad (*makes the sign of the cross*).

Understood about the VC500. I've heard about the issues but confess that I am one of those folks who hasn't really noticed anything, so maybe I got lucky. I've been meaning to post a sample of my transfers to have them critiqued in order to learn to identify quality issues. Think I will do that soon.

[Idocinthebox]

Make sure the ribbon cable has not been damaged from the tape carrige, see this YT https://youtu.be/iczCxaXU0f4?si=KXsTN-mYK-tGs-_b

[NJRoadfan]

Its the curse of 90s Sony 8mm tapes. In my case it was almost all Hi-8 tape stock. Some of the tapes were even the "fancy" evaporated metal (ME) type formulation and they had the same problems.

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...uring-hi8.html

12voltvids specifically addressed these tapes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qJJyxwxly8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb0KywV-0f4

He also has a method to "clean" the heads on the fly if you are adventurous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t25z72RFqyM

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJRoadfan

Its the curse of 90s Sony 8mm tapes. In my case it was almost all Hi-8 tape stock. Some of the tapes were even the "fancy" evaporated metal (ME) type formulation and they had the same problems.

Did you read the post above yours where the OP stated :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacktape

...I tried the tape in question in a Sony CCD-TR67 camcorder that my family has owned since new and found that apart from a few seconds of clicking in the audio at the start of each clip, the tape plays perfectly...

It's not a tape problem. If the tape was the problem, would it have played fine in another player?

[7jlong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacktape

It came from a coworker who used it in a trail camera apparatus.

Major red flag, to me anyway. Even if it were in a very nice housing I am skeptical - sitting out day and night, possibly in direct sun for part of it? Freezing/baking (your profile lists PA; full range of seasons)? Possibly starting and stopping randomly via a sensor or similar, but maybe powered on full-time?

I'd move on. Get a new (to you) model. LS is right - with patience and vigilance, eBay can yield a good one. A year or two ago I watched carefully until I found one with great pics showing shiny hype stickers all over the camera with no peeling or even dusty edges, and all surfaces (including those tiny little plastic "feet" dots that Sony tends to put on their cameras) clean and free of wear. I think that one had a clip of it playing as well? All accessories/cables/manual upped the ante, and the seller was terrifically communicative. Jumped on it. It was visibly used just a few times then put on a shelf. Score!

And that is how it performs, to this day. I'd leave the trail cam as possibly a rewinder if you trust it to do that.