Troubleshoot issues with captures, S-VHS VCR?

[Darkmatter]

Hey all. I was trying to diagnose a couple of problems with my captures & one that's specifically with my SVHS. It's a JVC "good" but not great SVHS. No TBC. Shouldn't matter for this issue anyways.

First issue.

My SVHS player keeps turning itself off while playing a tape a friend asked me if I could transfer for him. It seems to be both semi-random, and/or possibly in specific areas of the tape. Right now it's hard to tell. I can say that on a regular VHS it doesn't have this problem.

I was posting the attached photo to ask if this crease in the strip is what's causing the problem, but then I noticed another issue. If you look at the tape hood, there's a crack in 1 part of it. It doesn't go around the 90deg corner, but I was wondering if that was what was causing the problem. The hood still opens, but there would be a bit of "sag" due to this partial crack. For either, I was wondering if the SVHS had some safety features that would cause it to turn itself off.

Second issue.

Maybe the program can't do this over composite video, or there's a problem with my settings or the capture device, but I can only get vdub (1.9.11) in Win XP 32bit, to show anything if I'm using my SVHS player while using S-Video. Nothing over composite on SVHS or a reg VHS VCR. I'm using a Canopus 110 capture device. All switches are off except for #4. I can post a photo, but you guys seem to dream this stuff.

I know the Canopus isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, but this was a friend asking, so I wasn't shelling out for tech just yet. I talked to LS... god, years ago(?) about getting some better gear, but had Long COVID and am only now, possibly, recovering, maybe!? Fun times...

This isn't a part of my photography business ATM, and while I've considered getting some good tech and adding it, the more I see & hear of tapes, tech, ect, the more I shudder. Tapes are falling apart faster, and faster, as is the tech.

I would have posted this on the prem. section, but I guess the PP API might be acting up. It's being looked at.

Thanks,

DM

[lordsmurf]

Welcome back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmatter

My SVHS player keeps turning itself off while playing a tape a friend asked me if I could transfer for him.

It's likely just that one tape.

Quote:

I was posting the attached photo to ask if this crease

I'm not seeing a hard crease.

Quote:

If you look at the tape hood, there's a crack in 1 part of it. It doesn't go around the 90deg corner, but I was wondering if that was what was causing the problem. The hood still opens, but there would be a bit of "sag" due to this partial crack. For either, I was wondering if the SVHS had some safety features that would cause it to turn itself off.

Physical tape damage. You need to re-shell it.
Sometimes you can cheat (dangerously), and rip off the tape gate. Some players balk at this, others don't care. Not ideal whatsoever. But that would at least let it play (on some decks), if a bad gate is the problem. I would never do this on an important tape.

Quote:

Second issue.
Maybe the program can't do this over composite video, or there's a problem with my settings or the capture device, but I can only get vdub (1.9.11) in Win XP 32bit, to show anything if I'm using my SVHS player while using S-Video. Nothing over composite on SVHS or a reg VHS VCR.

Composite input selected?

Quote:

I'm using a Canopus 110 capture device. All switches are off except for #4.
I know the Canopus isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, but this was a friend asking, so I wasn't shelling out for tech just yet.

Quote:

I talked to LS... god, years ago(?) about getting some better gear, but had Long COVID and am only now, possibly, recovering, maybe!? Fun times...

My condolences.

If you don't mind sharing, what were the symptoms?

(We have experience with long COVID, too. Certain anti-vaxxer extended family members got long COVID, but still deny it was COVID related. The mental gymnastics used to explain it are unreal. We didn't have contact with them for 4 years, because they kept getting sick for months at a time, with "the flu". No thanks!)

Quote:

This isn't a part of my photography business ATM, and while I've considered getting some good tech and adding it, the more I see & hear of tapes, tech, ect, the more I shudder. Tapes are falling apart faster, and faster, as is the tech.

This can all be well managed. Good gear + proper inspection of tapes inserted = all is well. The problems always come from random people, using random gear, with no knowledge of the topic (and thus not knowing what NOT to do, ie put shedding/degrading tapes into a VCR).

I wouldn't necessarily give up on it, just (a) don't be a cheapskate, (b) be diligent.

You know, in the old days (film, early digital), it was easy to mkke fun of brands like Sigma and Olympus. I wanted to make a good photo analogy for you. For example, I would never claim that a cheap Chinese lens, like Yongnuo, is "just as good" as Canon L or Nikkor. But, you know, I have a Yongnuo, and those are quite fun.

Perhaps:
- Using a Polaroid, or a cell phone, to be a "professional photographer" (or even a serious hobbyist).
- Using MS Paint instead of Photoshop

The more you know, the better the gear (and knowing how to use it), is what is required. Photo and video really are not that different.

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmatter

If you look at the tape hood, there's a crack in 1 part of it. It doesn't go around the 90deg corner, but I was wondering if that was what was causing the problem. The hood still opens, but there would be a bit of "sag" due to this partial crack. For either, I was wondering if the SVHS had some safety features that would cause it to turn itself off.

Not sure what you're describing. Could you post photo(s) of the faulty flap? A repair in situ might be possible.

[aramkolt]

There's a fair chance that your ADVC-110 needs to be recapped if it isn't working reliably for whatever reason. I have two of them to play around with and neither started off passing video at all and now work fine after replacing all of the surface mount electrolytic capacitors. There are a few that are organic polymer in there and will have markings in a color other than black (usually purple) and those don't need to be changed as they aren't subject to typical electrolytic degradation. I've run into the same for ADVC-300's as well. Good news is once they are recapped, they should work reliably after that.

If you are going the DV route, you might be better off with a D8 or DV camcorder as many of those might have better line-tbc-like functionality and they typically do not have very many surface mount capacitors that can go bad.

[Darkmatter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Welcome back.

It's like just that one tape.

Thanks!

Yes, but I only now found a 2nd tape to try in the SVHS. I have others that I looked at today, but that's a whole other story. Lets just say, I doubt any of them will ever see the inside of an SVHS player. Luckily, I never owned a camcorder, so I doubt there's much I'd miss if I just toss them all. I would have liked to have a peek, but right now that's on hold.

Quote:

I'm not seeing a hard crease.

Maybe "hard" wasn't the right wording. The fact that there's a crease in it at all is what made me wonder if that could have been the cause.

Quote:

Physical tape damage. You need to re-shell it.
Sometimes you can cheat (dangerously), and rip off the tape gate. Some players balk at this, others don't care. Not ideal whatsoever. But that would at least let it play (on some decks), if a bad gate is the problem. I would never do this on an important tape.

It looked (from the outside anyways) like it could just be popped off, and was held in by tension, but I could be wrong on that. If it matters, the label on the spine says "MTC."

Quote:

Composite input selected?

Considering this is my first go at vdub, I promise you nothing! I've also never used the 110 before, as I wasn't doing much of anything. I'm still not, really. Or maybe I have tried the Canopus? Shit, I dunno man! Put together ADHD, Brain Fog, and age, and you end up not even remembering what the problem was at the start!

Quote:

Hey, the dude wanted fast, and that's the best "fast" that I can offer. Also, at best, the only other possible option in this area is some dude with an elgato and a vcr... At least, that was it last I looked. 100% sounds like a side gig for a few extra bucks. Pop the tape in, pop it back out with a USB stick at the end. They may not even crop the beginning and end of the capture.

Hell, I even tried calling a place in the nearest city to me, and the business, with a business storefront location, refused (rather rudely) to even give me an idea of what equipment they were using. As if it's some state secret or something... Actually, looking back, they also sounded uncomfortable with the question, which I liked even less.

I think I quipped back something along the lines of, "Ah, OK, gotcha. Elgato and a VCR it is then. Thanks but no thanks. /me - ends call.

Quote:

My condolences.

If you don't mind sharing, what were the symptoms?

(We have experience with long COVID, too. Certain anti-vaxxer extended family members got long COVID, but still deny it was COVID related. The mental gymnastics used to explain it are unreal. We didn't have contact with them for 4 years, because they kept getting sick for months at a time, with "the flu". No thanks!)

Thanks. Its been at least as shitty as it sounds.

Ya, sure. Most of the ones you hear about. Trouble breathing, tiredness, weakness, general lack of energy, brain fog, aches and pains. The tiredness and lack of energy are both mental and physical BTW. Learning new things is clearly harder, and more frustrating now then it was before.

The one that comes to mind that I didn't get was loss of smell. I might be forgetting one or two. I blame the brain fog.

Quote:

This can all be well managed. Good gear + proper inspection of tapes inserted = all is well. The problems always come from random people, using random gear, with no knowledge of the topic (and thus not knowing what NOT to do, ie put shedding/degrading tapes into a VCR).

I know enough to know that I don't know enough, and/or that I'm not providing what I (at the very least) could be providing.

Quote:

I wouldn't necessarily give up on it, just (a) don't be a cheapskate, (b) be diligent.

The problem here is a bit difficult to address. Before I got sick, I looked at upping my prices by mentioning it at the market I used to do before I got COVID. People didn't just balk, they looked at me, or talked to me like I was trying to scam them.

They want the work done, but don't want to pay the amount I would need to ask. It's not entirely a case of them being cheap either. The bigger issue is the number of customers I would get. It just isn't high enough for me to even make my money back on the equipment in any sort of reasonable time frame, let alone pay myself. Hell, I don't even know if the equipment would live long enough to make my money back. That's partly due to equipment age, and partly due to problems with the age of peoples tapes. I feel like the degradation has been accelerating over the past 5 or 10 years, just based on the few tapes I have done for people, or my own tapes that I've just looked at.

In the end, I think it's partly, "all of the above," but also, they don't know what's involved. The price of the equipment, or the fact that it could die if I look at it wrong. Non refurbed equip BTW. They don't know what's involved in setting this up, or learning how to use the software. I say that from my own perspective, even though I've been into computers since before the PC existed, and already have some video editing/PP knowledge.

It isn't their fault. You just can't know everything. They see an ad for an elgato, sorry, elcrapo, my bad. They see how easy it is. It's that, or someone online has one of those or similar and are offering to do tapes for $10-15 a pop. That's the thing. They get back what they get back, but never even know that there could have been a different result. They probably don't even own a VCR anymore. They will chalk it up to the age of the tape (sometimes true) and accept what they are given.

In the end, I think I would have to accept that I'd be doing this on a cheaper workflow, just due to volume. I can do that. I still have better stuff and skills then the other(s?) I mentioned. I don't overly like it, especially if the video could really, really use a full frame TBC, or whatever it needs, but even with the few I have done with my equipment, people have been happy. I should be "happy" about that, right? Right..?

I've never been a very good business man. I'm an artist. I want the customer to be happy with the result because I'm at least reasonably happy with the result. Not because they don't know any better.

I could show comparisons, but the fact is, nobody looks.

I did look at possibly learning to do my own serious maintenance, such as soldering, but since then I've developed a small essential tremor! Wow me, WTG! Great stuff for soldering, or photography. Don't even ask me how my snowflake photography went this last winter. The word is apparently "sadge" now, not sad. They don't know if it's Long Covy related or what. It's just one of those things. It'll either go away on its own, or it won't. It's currently leaning towards, "won't." Another younger gen new thing is, FML, SMH. Which stands for (I'm erroring on caution as I'm to lazy to go look at forum rules in the middle of typing this,) F my life, so much hate. lol I really like it, actually.

Quote:

You know, in the old days (film, early digital), it was easy to mkke fun of brands like Sigma and Olympus. I wanted to make a good photo analogy for you. For example, I would never claim that a cheap Chinese lens, like Yongnuo, is "just as good" as Canon L or Nikkor. But, you know, I have a Yongnuo, and those are quite fun.

Perhaps:
- Using a Polaroid, or a cell phone, to be a "professional photographer" (or even a serious hobbyist).
- Using MS Paint instead of Photoshop

The more you know, the better the gear (and knowing how to use it), is what is required. Photo and video really are not that different.

No, those are all good analogies. Hell, I use a non L Canon 100mm Macro because it's so much cheaper then the L, with very little lost. What you do lose, usually vanishes at the size you're selling at, or is now easily fixed in post. Shit, for that macro lens, even Canon's own rep's say that! lol

I also use a Sigma 150-600mm lens. Not the greatest tele lens by any means, but it has range flexibility and upper range that I'll likely never be able to afford in a Canon lens. It also does that at a fraction of the cost of the Canon 600mm.

I think the difference in my mindset, is that ultimately, I only attempt to sell something of mine that I am happy with. I can do that with my own photography. I don't feel that same luxury or flexibility with someone else's stuff. In the end, if it's me vs elcrapo + VCR, I may just do it since that it for options around here. I really haven't decided yet.


BTW LS, this whole "quote, /quote" each section in between responses is for the dogs! What a PITA! lol I can't believe you do this all the time. You psychopath. rofl

I'll give this other tape that wasn't part of (or around) the tapes I looked at before (mentioned way above) a shot in my SVHS and see if the turning off problem persists. If it does, it could be an SVHS hardware issue, although I do suspect that the heads on it need cleaning as well. I don't currently have a really good, commercial grade, reference tape to try for comparison, so I'm making due for now.

I do have 1 Scotch VHS head cleaner tape I could try, but I'm going to want to post a link to a small snippet of video before I bother. That's if the player stops shutting itself off.


Thanks,

DM (Longest post I've made online in at least a week.) haha

[Darkmatter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

Not sure what you're describing. Could you post photo(s) of the faulty flap? A repair in situ might be possible.

It's in the small photo I posted as an attachment to my OP. It's about 30-40% down from the top, left hand side. I guess I should have highlighted it. My bad!

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

There's a fair chance that your ADVC-110 needs to be recapped if it isn't working reliably for whatever reason. I have two of them to play around with and neither started off passing video at all and now work fine after replacing all of the surface mount electrolytic capacitors. There are a few that are organic polymer in there and will have markings in a color other than black (usually purple) and those don't need to be changed as they aren't subject to typical electrolytic degradation. I've run into the same for ADVC-300's as well. Good news is once they are recapped, they should work reliably after that.

If you are going the DV route, you might be better off with a D8 or DV camcorder as many of those might have better line-tbc-like functionality and they typically do not have very many surface mount capacitors that can go bad.

It could 100% be the Canopus. I actually have a 100 series, so I can try that one. I was given these by a guy I knew who worked at a tech repair shop and these were just sitting around. Sadly, nothing like an ATI AiW card though.

I do have at least 1 of those 2 cam types, if not both. I have no idea this second if they even do pass-through, let alone any sort of line-TBC though. I'd have to go find them and take a look at the make and models.

Thanks!

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmatter

It's in the small photo I posted as an attachment to my OP. It's about 30-40% down from the top, left hand side. I guess I should have highlighted it. My bad!

Thanks!

Thanks, I should have looked more closely. Often the flap catches on a sticky label wrongly attached to the top side of the cassette. (there is a reason the manufacturers made a slight depression in the top side of the cassette for the label to sit in). In that case the label needs to be removed/cut, or the problem will recur.

If the now damaged flap catches the case even with no label problem the flap needs to be either repaired or replaced, typically by transferring the tape reels into a good cassette.

An obstructed flap can lift enough to satisfy the VCR but not enough to clear the tape. This can damage the tape as it is playing. Perhaps this was the cause of the damage to this tape...

[Darkmatter]

OK, I don't think it's the flap. It barely has any effect on the height of it. Like, less then a mm...

I put in another tape that had no problems before. It started doing the same thing. I took it out after a bit and noticed that it seemed warmer then I was expecting. I'm wondering if it's an airflow/dust issue causing the internals to heat up. I did a short test of this by letting it cool off first, and it ran fine for a 15min test.

Can you use compressed air (from what distance) on an SVHS player? I'm guessing that I would avoid the heads/drum and focus on dust on the main board? I also think the heads need cleaning. I can use a Scotch VHS head cleaner in an SVHS VCR, correct? It's after 4am here, so I won't be doing any of that until tomorrow anyways.

Assuming I get the go ahead here to use compressed canned air, I'm going to clean it out first, then use the Scotch VHS head cleaner on it, and see what I got after that. If I am supposed to avoid the heads, is it also advisable to block them from getting dust blow towards them using angle, or by holding a small piece of cardboard between where you're spraying, and where the heads are?

Lastly, regarding capture. I'm using HQ NTSC, but I'm happy to know of a better one to pick.

Thanks

@LordSmurf: You asked me if I had changed my input from SVideo to Composite when I mentioned not seeing an image using just Composite. I just checked, and unless there's a separate spot for video inputs in vDub, mine shows no video inputs to select, despite the fact that the Canopus is connect. Unless I'm remembering wrong, that drop down menu was under Video, in the main vDub window, before you choose, "capture avi." It also has a section that asks me if I want full processing or 'raw stream' or some such. I wasn't sure, but I chose raw. I don't even know if that effects vDub when you go into the separate "capture" mode.

Thanks

[Aya_Rei]

I've heard it is not a good idea to use head cleaning tapes are all they do is just move the debris around. You'd have to take apart the VCR and manually clean the heads I believe.

On the topic of VirtualDub inputs, you probably need to use the program Crossbar Thing, in order to manually change the capture card's input from composite to S-Video.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmatter

I'm wondering if it's an airflow/dust issue causing the internals to heat up.

Less than 1% chance this is it.

Quote:

Can you use compressed air (from what distance) on an SVHS player?

No, do not do this!

Compressed "air" is more than just air. The propellant can be quite damaging to electronics, especially anything optical.

Use a Giottos rocket blower. https:

Quote:

I can use a Scotch VHS head cleaner in an SVHS VCR, correct?

No. That pushes around dirt, worthless.
Properly clean it with non-cotton chamois swabs (NO Q-TIPS!), are plain white copy paper, and 90%+ isopropyl alcohol. There are guides in the forum.

Quote:

@LordSmurf: You asked me if I had changed my input from SVideo to Composite when I mentioned not seeing an image using just Composite. I just checked, and unless there's a separate spot for video inputs in vDub, mine shows no video inputs to select, despite the fact that the Canopus is connect.

That ancient DV box simply is not made for VirtualDub. It pre-dates VirtualDub (2000!), meaning DV is frrom the 1990s. Not just old, but damned old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aya_Rei

I've heard it is not a good idea to use head cleaning tapes are all they do is just move the debris around. You'd have to take apart the VCR and manually clean the heads I believe.

Correct.

Quote:

On the topic of VirtualDub inputs, you probably need to use the program Crossbar Thing, in order to manually change the capture card's input from composite to S-Video.

I doubt it, but you can always try. I've never tried. I'll have to pull out my Canopus box (which I own only for dev, testing, not actually using).

[Darkmatter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aya_Rei

I've heard it is not a good idea to use head cleaning tapes are all they do is just move the debris around. You'd have to take apart the VCR and manually clean the heads I believe.
On the topic of VirtualDub inputs, you probably need to use the program Crossbar Thing, in order to manually change the capture card's input from composite to S-Video.

I wondered about that (cleaning.) This tape look like, a tape. I've seen smaller tape cleaning tapes for other old tech that actually had small soft fibres that were very well attached to the ribbon. That always seemed more like a cleaner then this thing.

I was actually looking at going the other way around. It only does S-Video, not composite. I was trying to figure out some of these issues but I don't have a 2nd VCR that has S-video.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Less than 1% chance this is it.
No, do not do this!
Compressed "air" is more than just air. The propellant can be quite damaging to electronics, especially anything optical.
Use a Giottos rocket blower. https:
No. That pushes around dirt, worthless.
Properly clean it with non-cotton chamois swabs (NO Q-TIPS!), are plain white copy paper, and 90%+ isopropyl alcohol. There are guides in the forum.
That ancient DV box simply is not made for VirtualDub. It pre-dates VirtualDub (2000!), meaning DV is frrom the 1990s. Not just old, but damned old.
Correct.
I doubt it, but you can always try. I've never tried. I'll have to pull out my Canopus box (which I own only for dev, testing, not actually using).

Yea I kinda figured you'd say that about the canned air... I was even going to ask about covering the heads and sensors to prevent that, but it still has problems, obviously. I do currently have several "air rockets" which are for cleaning dust of of camera lenses and sensors. I would assume that those would be OK to try? I'll have to look at the guide. I was aware of the q-tip thing. I do have some sensor cleaning swabs, but I don't know if those would be the same as what your describing. I'll have to look.

The heat thing fits. Even rewinding the tape and trying to play it back over the same spot that worked fine, no longer worked. Later, after I had let the thing cool down, it was back to working fine.

Here is a video I put up on Onedrive. It shows nothing but black from a video that had an extended area of black recorded on the tape. The second part is of another video from another tape. I couldn't find a 2nd example of "recorded black" so this 2nd part is also partly just an example of what I'm getting from my captures. I put it through Resolve, which I thought auto-deinterlaced, but I guess not.

I'm guessing your forum will hate everything about what it directly below, so below that is a cleaned up link, although when I tired to load it, it said that it couldn't be loaded right now. FML, SMH...

Edit:

LS, you mentioned copy paper. Do you mean blank, plain, non-coated, white printer paper, or photocopier paper? Also, I looked around and did a search but didn't see the head cleaning guide. Male blindness issue???

Also, I asked (the italic text) below this in my previous msg but you might have figured that I'd find the head cleaning guide. lol Sorry.

"I do currently have several "air rockets" which are for cleaning dust of of camera lenses and sensors. I would assume that those would be OK to try? I'll have to look at the guide. I was aware of the q-tip thing. I do have some sensor cleaning swabs, but I don't know if those would be the same as what your describing."

https://1drv.ms/v/c/ad3a09a96efe6e1b...Jmyw71K2WBuMYQ

-- merged --

OK Onedrive seems to be a bust. I still can't load it.

From my own test, it looks like Dropbox is the winner.

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention (I think) about the 2nd half with actual video on it, is that it was, unfortunately, recorded onto the camcorder in EP mode. That's also a big factor in the quality, decades later.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/o4f49...=6id2d7cs&dl=0

[Aya_Rei]

So you are dealing with an EP Mode copy of a Video8 tape? Or a VHS camcorder that was shooting at EP Mode.

Still, perhaps the line I saw going through the middle of the tape (is that your concern?) might've been caused by the recording VCR if it's the former, or camcorder if it's the latter.

[Darkmatter]

Just showing the overall quality in regards to the 2nd half of the tape. It was a VHS camcorder recorded in EP mode. The first part with just black had the fluctuating bands of brightness, and between the 2 shots (different tapes) I'm trying to see whether this is an issue with my player or just how it was recorded + age.

Also, since I can't get the Canopus to show "hardware options" to change from S-Video to Composite, can you recommend another program? I'd also like to know if you have a link to a good document or video for post processing. Main thing is de-interlacing the video, but I also know that huffyuv or lagarith are often the main choices, with huffyuv being what I've been capturing with, but I wasn't sure if lagarith was what was often used for the intermediary step, or the final step?

Thanks

[Aya_Rei]

Never used any Canopus devices so alas, do not know any answers. Crossbar Thing works great for USB capture cards since VirtualDub doesn't show any input settings, need to use it to force it to show the s-video output.

As for post processing, Selur's Hybrid is the go to for deinterlacing, avisynth filtering and encoding the video to a modern lossy compressed codec/format (x264 in .mp4 for example)

Huffyuv and Lagarith are meant to be the codecs you capture your raw files to, so they are the intermediary step. Not the final delivery codec since they are stupidly massive.

[Darkmatter]

Cool Thanks.

Sadly, Crossbar didn't do anything to help. I didn't even an option for changing from 1 to another.

SVHS is still acting odd and oddly not consistent. The Canopus S-Video vs composite video seems to be a Vdub thing. I have no idea at this point where I read it, but at some point in the last couple of days I read about WinDV. /shrug My brain is melted. WinDV shows composite just fine, at least on a different VCR. I was more checking to see if WinDV would show anything at all. Also, it's capturing off the the ADVC 110 just fine. Just, no real options. lol

Just as a test, since the SVHS kept turning itself off, even when not warmed up, I tried putting in that Scotch VCR head cleaner. I wasn't looking for it to clean, I just wanted to know if the SVHS would shut itself off. It did not... That's despite the fact that multiple tapes in the SVHS player did turn the player off when played. Huston, we may have a problem.

Since the head cleaner didn't turn the VCR off after about 60sec (which was about 50sec longer then it had been doing) I'm wondering if it's a circuit problem, or a head problem. It could be dirty heads, but I haven't heard of that turning the whole VCR off before. It's possible that it didn't turn off because there was no A/V data to read. It's all fuzzy chaos theory to me ATM. Much like my brain... Again, for all I know it is the heads needing a proper cleaning. I'll have to look to see if I even have what I need to clean them. Even the flat DSLR sensor cleaning "swabs" have small, tightly packed fibres in it. I mean, every cloth "thing" we have has fibres that can rip off. bleh

I'm currently capturing that VHS cam tape in WinDV via VHS composite. I'm both curious to see what WinDV gives me, and what sort of quality drop I actually see using the VHS VCR over composite vs S-Video. The tape is so old and compressed that (just on a glance) I didn't really notice much of a difference. Probably not as sharp, but with all the lines and noise it may actually just be softening up the "bad." I'm sure LS will hate everything about what I just said. lol

The thing is, the lines aren't "sgwiggly" or whatever. They don't cause the horizontal image to waver around, or at least, not by very much. I can't tell yet. They're just there, changing locations rapidly, but most of them go across the entire video image. Compression? Age? Dirt? All? What I can say, is that both VCRs had them.

[Aya_Rei]

Oh you're using a DV Box, yeah it's best to use a capture program like WinDV or Scenealyzer for that. Apologies, Crossbar Thing is meant to get a USB capture card's input to show up in VirtualDub.

[Darkmatter]

No worries. I learned a thing.

A few things I've found and found out.

I found a VHS tape cleaning tape that I thought I had, but couldn't quite remember. I'm not sure if I ever mentioned it in a past forum post years ago or not. LS may have already given it the "no go."

I'm including 2 photos of the VHS kit. It looks like it's a soft brush + soft tape system. If I remember correctly, you put a couple drops on the tape part (it's cloth or something) and the brush's take the dust away while the alcohol on the tape cleans any residue off. As I remember it. I'd have to look it up. I do find it interesting that a wet system is fine for a plugged in & turned on electronics system.

I also found my camera sensor cleaning kit. I'm including a link to a YT video that shows the swabs that it comes with. I'm not sure if they are appropriate or not. Since they're for a sensor, the edge is pretty thin. I don't know if the VCR heads sit slightly below the drum, completely flush, or what? Ultimately, just about anything can get caught on an edge and tear.

Regarding my poor, sad, JVC SVHS player that will often turn itself off after x(random) # of seconds of doing something. It isn't the crack in the case lid. The crack changes the height of that 1 tape by less then 1mm because of it only going through part of the "L" shape of the lid. Also, it's the part that is closest to the tape when flipped up. That's also the smallest piece. More then that, the SVHS shuts itself off with multiple other tapes that are fine. It also isn't a heat issue as I first wondered. It's a random thing that seems to come and go. Once it starts it seems to be like that until I give up for at least hours, but when I go back it may do it again, it may not, it may play for 10min - 45min before it starts doing it again.

I actually don't even have an alternative theory as to what it happening other then what I wondered about above. Is this even an issue that others have run into before?

Regarding that 1 tape for the friend of mine. I got a full capture in WinDV, but I see that Avisynth is a text script only program... FLM... Are there any ready made scripts out there for what I need it to do? I don't know jack about scripting or anything. Learning new things has become infinitely harder since getting long covid. Right now, I have a very large interlaced file, and that's it.

Thanks again! (I see I'm a premi now! yay!)

[lordsmurf]

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Originally Posted by Darkmatter

I do currently have several "air rockets" which are for cleaning dust of of camera lenses and sensors. I would assume that those would be OK to try?

Yes, that's what the Giottos are. I'm really not sure if there were "made for" cameras/lenses, or just used for them. You see places like B&H carry them, but so did/do non-camera tech stores.

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I do have some sensor cleaning swabs,

DSLR/mirrorless sensor swabs are what I use for best decks, although those are pricier than chamois swabs (at least historically).

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Here is a video I put up on Onedrive.

What I see is:
- DV compressions noise
- erratic shifting chroma noise
- horrible handled interlacing (not quite interlace, not quite deinterlaced)
- interference noise --- but from where? (original recording camera? current VCR? current capture box/card?)

More questions than answers.

Step #1 is to replace known-bad hardware/software with known-good hardware/software.

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LS, you mentioned copy paper. Do you mean blank, plain, non-coated, white printer paper,

The cheap 20lb grade you find in copy machines and printers. Nothing fancy. Some people insist on "better" paper, 24lb, and that's fine too. It's just more stiff, more slick (not from gloss, just the paper weight/grade).

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Oh, one thing I forgot to mention (I think) about the 2nd half with actual video on it, is that it was, unfortunately, recorded onto the camcorder in EP mode. That's also a big factor in the quality, decades later.

Correct.

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Originally Posted by Aya_Rei

As for post processing, Selur's Hybrid is the go to for deinterlacing, avisynth filtering and encoding the video to a modern lossy compressed codec/format (x264 in .mp4 for example)
Huffyuv and Lagarith are meant to be the codecs you capture your raw files to, so they are the intermediary step. Not the final delivery codec since they are stupidly massive.

Good added info.

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Originally Posted by Darkmatter

SVHS is still acting odd and oddly not consistent.

- S-VHS = Super VHS, the VHS format with about 2x analog resolution (all luma) for higher quality
- s-video = separated video, because the luma (Y) was separated from both chroma (Cr/Cb)m two carrier wires with a mini DIN connector

What are you referring to here? These are not interchangeable terms.

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The Canopus S-Video vs composite video seems to be a Vdub thing.

No, this is a "that capture card sucks" thing. It's a late 1990s piece of technology. Yes, it was resold "new " in the 00s, but it was 1990s tech. It started off a decent option, back when the used Pentium II and III computers (II was the minimum spec required), but it quickly became unpopular. So Canopus shifted to BS marketing, suckering newbies to overpay for their outdated crap.

You, sir, need a new card!

A lot of your issues would go away.

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WinDV.... it's capturing off the the ADVC 110 just fine. Just, no real options. lol

The reason here is simple: DV was never intended as a conversion format. And it looks pretty miserable when used that way, crushing/compressing down the analog data (and making it worse in the process). DV was made to shoot new video digitally, and then transfer/"capture" to computer for editing. That's why you get now options -- it was for merely transferring digital camera data to a computer.

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Huston, we may have a problem.

Houston. (Not "how-ston", neither! )

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I'm wondering if it's a circuit problem, or a head problem. It could be dirty heads, but I haven't heard of that turning the whole VCR off before.

It's time to start asking yourself questions.
- Did you really intent to screw around with old capture cards that reject software, cranky VCRs that need repair/refurb?
- Or did you actually want to capture your videos? To share, to enjoy. Then move on to the next thing.
- If any of this was done to "save money", are you now seeing that you're paying in time instead? Because there's always a cost (money, time ... even health/blood for non-video stuff). There's a reason that "it's only money" exists as a phrase, as that's often the least-worst option. (It doesn't mean what many sarcastic people think it does.) Time, health, family -- those are far more valuable, more important.

This forum is here to help DIY'ers, hobbyists, pros ... but at some point, I have to ask, is this what you wanted? This is a main reason I sell refurb'd gear on the marketplace of this site, so you can use gear, not play/mess/screw with it.

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It's possible that it didn't turn off because there was no A/V data to read.

No, it's not that. Also not dirty heads. Something more serious is going on with it.

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Originally Posted by Darkmatter

I'm including 2 photos of the VHS kit. It looks like it's a soft brush + soft tape system. If I remember correctly, you put a couple drops on the tape part (it's cloth or something) and the brush's take the dust away while the alcohol on the tape cleans any residue off.

Seriously, just throw it in the trash. Or keep for nostalgia only.

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Is this even an issue that others have run into before?

Yes, many times, but for many reasons.

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Regarding that 1 tape for the friend of mine. I got a full capture in WinDV, but I see that Avisynth is a text script only program... FLM... Are there any ready made scripts out there for what I need it to do? I don't know jack about scripting or anything. Learning new things has become infinitely harder since getting long covid. Right now, I have a very large interlaced file, and that's it.

selur's Hybrid.

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Thanks again! (I see I'm a premi now! yay!)

[Aya_Rei]

What S-VHS VCR do you have anyway? If it's in dire needs of repairs, maybe try and contact Armakolt? He does offer refurb services for select high end JVC models. At least, I think the JVC models he refurbs are the exact ones he also has up for sell.

[Darkmatter]

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Originally Posted by Aya_Rei

What S-VHS VCR do you have anyway? If it's in dire needs of repairs, maybe try and contact Armakolt? He does offer refurb services for select high end JVC models. At least, I think the JVC models he refurbs are the exact ones he also has up for sell.

For posterity, I'm posting this here. The model is the HR-S6900. I have the remote, but I can't get it to function, so I can't be sure that I'm able to access all of the features. That said, the front panel buttons and menu options do look to allow for full access. It doesn't seem to have a built in TBC. It actually does have a built in head cleaner. A 30+ year old head cleaner. I wonder if it's doing more harm then good at this point.

LS, you're questions are far more complex, including time vs money. I'm moving the conversation to the members section starting with a link to here with a note about this thread, and a response to your post.

Thanks