Pinnacle card only works on old computers?

[Redbread]

I need an advice.

I tried Pinnacle 710 and it only worked on an old computer which is just way too slow. I tried to record a tape and it dropped a lot of frames and the audio was out of sync. (It had Windows 10 and USB 2.0 slots)

The other computers I tried (Three others in total) were all with windows 11 and only hat USB 3.0 slots. So it appears that the pinnacle is not working with windows 11 or more likely the USB 3.0.

I spend hours trying to make it work, but I just wasn't able to.

FYI:
I followed your guide. On the working computer there is a normal video visibile in virtual dub. When I open the sidebarthing and I choose the device, there are also more settings for it, than when I open it with the computers which have problems with it.
When I tried the other computers I was able to select the device in virtual dub, but depending on which USB-slot I used, there was either a black screen or just nothing at all. I am pretty sure the problem is the USB 3.0

Is it maybe possible to use a different software to capture the video, which works with the USB 3.0 and the Pinnacle 710?

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[lordsmurf]

I'm having a hard time following along here.

Were you using Crossbar Thing to switch inputs?

In VirtualDub, in capture mode, use Preview not Overlay.

USB3 has never been an issue I'm aware of. I've never seen it not be backwards compatible with USB2 capture cards. The only variable may be lousy USB drivers. That's beyond the scope of this topic.

Win10 had several issues, randomly.
Win11 has only 1 confirmed issue to date, and that was with a cheap mini PC.
Never update the OS with the cards plugged in.

How "old" is the old computers. Specs? If legitimately old (pre-2010), it may be Win10 at fault, or lack of a frame TBC. Do do you have for TBCs? (I was capturing video, with no dropped frames, on single-core IDE systems back in 2001. Granted, not USB, the USB cards came later, late 00s.)

You can attempt VirtualDub2, but I don't think we're there yet.

[Bester]

I recently purchased a Pinnacle 710-USB2 myself. It wasn't quite as "plug and play" as I had hoped and took a bit of getting used to.

In the beginning I would get a black screen, blank screen and sometimes a white screen (all with no audio and no source). I'm still not 100% sure how I solved it but here are some of the steps I took (roughly in order):

As stated above, in VirtualDub's capture mode, use Preview not Overlay.

Try removing the Pinnacle drivers from both Add/Remove Programs and the Device Manager.

Then reinstalling the drivers using the Device Manager and executable.

Try a different USB port (if you can).

Try restarting with the Pinnacle already plugged in.

Try restarting with the Pinnacle unplugged then plug in once you are loaded into Windows.

Try hot swapping the yellow composite and S-Video while something is playing.

Lastly, as above, rather than leaving your hardware on idle or stop on the menu screen, have a tape playing in the background to gives the Pinnacle a signal to pick up on. This helped most recently when it did it again temporarily.

Eventually both my XP and Windows 10 computers just started to display the video and sound perfectly. However, none of this will solve dropped frames and the audio out of sync.

[lordsmurf]

Here's another one.

After computer started, then plug in card, then open VirtualDub, then capture mode --- select device.

- If already selected, select it again anyway.
- After changing Overlay to Preview, select device again.

If XP, you have comp/s-video controls in in VirtualDub. After changing input, select device.

That correct almost anything I've run into, on any OS. Rarely any need to reboot, reinstall drivers, etc.

Once it working, never change USB port used. When you insert into new USB port, it's like a brand new device the computer has never seen before. It will ignore prior settings, sometimes confusing the drivers. That goes for anything USB, not just these specific capture cards.

Note: Both OP and reply above are using known-good version of the Pinnacle, not just any random 510/710. Some versions of this cards are pretty miserable, like most other lousy Pinnacle products (the awful Dazzles especially).

[Redbread]

Yes, when I didn't select S-Video in the crossbar thing, I didn't even get a black screen. I also used a S-Video cable so I guess it makes sense. The computers I used were bought 2010, 2015, 2020 and 2023.

But it finally worked now! Thank you.

I first started up the computer, then connected the recorder to the Pinnacle device and started playing the tape before plugging the device into the computer. After connecting the Pinnacle device, I selected S-Video again in the Crossbar Thing and launched VirtualDub. First I only saw a black screen and recording didn't work. As suggested, I re-selected the device even though it was already selected, and then clicked Preview again. This time, a flickering image appeared. However, once I started the recording, everything ran smoothly and no frames were dropped. Everything was in sync and the quality was good. I think I did the exact same for other ports on the same computer and it didn't work for them, but I guess I shouldn't question it any further, as long as it finally works.

Thank you very much! I’ll probably never dare to unplug this device again.

-- merged --

Forget everything I said. It seems like it's the device. The s-video input of the Pinnacle Device just doesn't work properly and the cable just had the right angle on one of my computers. It was completely random.

-- merged --

I’ve now bought a old S-Video cable, and it works perfectly with the pinnacle device. This thing is really driving me crazy. First I had a brand new S-Video cable, which worked for a while and stopped working (still works with a TV) and now I bought a 20 year old cable. So if anyone has the same problem as I do, it’s best to follow all the recommendations given here and also try different cables. I think my problem is finally solved.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbread

I’ve now bought a old S-Video cable, and it works perfectly with the pinnacle device. This thing is really driving me crazy. First I had a brand new S-Video cable, which worked for a while and stopped working (still works with a TV) and now I bought a 20 year old cable. So if anyone has the same problem as I do, it’s best to follow all the recommendations given here and also try different cables. I think my problem is finally solved.

Well, it is not a rocket science to test cable with multimeter. There can be connector problems, socket problems too. There are a lot of good new s-video cables in ebay from VHS heydays. They are cheap. The best of Thomson, Hama, Vivanco, even Oehlbach (OK, they are mostly in Europe I believe, but I am sure in US are local regarded brands too) are available NOS in sealed packages. Do no buy new Chinese crap.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

Well, it is not a rocket science to test cable with multimeter.

If I have to test a cable, I just throw it away and move on. That means I can't trust it.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

If I have to test a cable, I just throw it away and move on. That means I can't trust it.

Yes, but you would start by replacing the cable if something is wrong, not changing the cable as a last resort when everything else has been tried

[ge0dude]

Y'know I have been thinking about this for some time (since I decided to build my own cables) -There is a need (however small a market) for s-video cable testers, that don't just test for continuity, but can also pulse many tests per second to determine how faulty the cable actually is.

I've seen this feature in other cable testers such as this one. Unfortunately it only tests 5-pin mini-din, not 4-pin.

If someone wanted to design one of these as a side project on an arduino or some sort of microprocessor. Here are are some features that would benefit:

Test ~200? times per second and measure variability. (I chose 200 based on the aforementioned product)

Many cable testers have the ability to cross test between formats (it tests A to B, and both A and B can have a variety of connectors)

4-pin mini din could correspond to dual BNC and even DUAL RCA in some cases, so it would be nice if those were included for testing adapters and such.

It's a pipe dream but a cable tester like this could be of benefit and I could see myself dropping money on one if it were reasonably priced. (~$80 or less new.)

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ge0dude

Y'know I have been thinking about this for some time (since I decided to build my own cables) -There is a need (however small a market) for s-video cable testers, that don't just test for continuity, but can also pulse many tests per second to determine how faulty the cable actually is.

I've seen this feature in other cable testers such as this one. Unfortunately it only tests 5-pin mini-din, not 4-pin.

If someone wanted to design one of these as a side project on an arduino or some sort of microprocessor. Here are are some features that would benefit:

Test ~200? times per second and measure variability. (I chose 200 based on the aforementioned product)

Many cable testers have the ability to cross test between formats (it tests A to B, and both A and B can have a variety of connectors)

4-pin mini din could correspond to dual BNC and even DUAL RCA in some cases, so it would be nice if those were included for testing adapters and such.

It's a pipe dream but a cable tester like this could be of benefit and I could see myself dropping money on one if it were reasonably priced. (~$80 or less new.)

That's a great idea...

... but economics still enters the equation. I probably use more s-video cables than anybody here. For $70 +tax +shipping I can buy a lot of different cables. Even if some are duds, I still won't care, it'll be plenty for several years

Any time "arduino" enters the conversation, 99.9%+ of people are already disinterested. Because that means both time and money, and nobody has both, for such a niche need. They either have money to buy it, or time to build it. For this item, I can assure you that money availability will far outstrip time availability. Noting that "time" include technical learning time.

I hate to always pour cold water on nifty sounding ideas, but it's just reality.

Remember, we can barely talk people out of butchering their own videos, by them cheaping out and using Easycaps/Elgatos and thrift store VCRs. Sadly, even services can have that mentality! How easy will it be to convince them to buy/build an item simply to test s-video cables?

Essentially, you'd be building this for yourself. So if you want it for you, go for it.

You may find a few dozen people who actually have the time (and skills) to join you on your quest. And you/them may opt to build some for several dozen others. Then the interest will somewhat die out, and the project will end up abandoned.

Note that, early on, and before you even build it, you'll get a lot of lip service about how great the idea is. Because people will be people. But almost none of those people will ever build, buy, or use the item. Just empty praise.

Again, I think it's a great idea.

[ge0dude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I hate to always pour cold water on nifty sounding ideas, but it's just reality.

Why I called it a pipe dream

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

So if you want it for you, go for it.

I'd love to but heavy coding isn't in my skillset wheelhouse, and this sounds very code heavy. I've already started the 3D printable Mold Cleaner Project which involves more coding than I would like. (Who knows when I will find the time and money to finish it.)

I'll put a cable tester on my Master Project list right now, because it sounds like a great idea and I'm extremely interested in a product like this. I doubt it's something I'll ever get around to though, as it's just not a high priority. But yes, I also think it's a great idea. Would love to see one.

[radiokom]

There are a lot of cable testers around. This one for example:
https://www.amazon.com/MFL-15-Plug-C.../dp/B0972J2ZR9
This is all what you need for quick test of various cables.
All IT guys use them.
If we are talking of testing various parameters of cables - do you want to start your own cable factory?
Buy cables from trusted brands, they all are up to specs.
If about 3D printable "mold cleaner" (I doubt it is possible, because to kill mold you need much more than vacuum cleaner) do you start to develop something different as that, for example?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/277240950301

[ge0dude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

There are a lot of cable testers around. This one for example:
https://www.amazon.com/MFL-15-Plug-C.../dp/B0972J2ZR9
This is all what you need for quick test of various cables.

Right, I am familiar, but those are not what I am talking about, that is a glorified continuity checker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

If about 3D printable "mold cleaner" (I doubt it is possible, because to kill mold you need much more than vacuum cleaner) do you start to develop something different as that, for example?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/277240950301

I actually really appreciate you showing me this, it's either pretty new to the market or I completely missed it. (I couldn't find the same style on the U.S. ebay.)

It however is missing one big thing I wanted to incorporate into my design, and that was some sort of auto stop function. Which is one of the harder parts of the design. But the more I see products like this release that actually tick all the boxes for me (including safety) the more I'll consider giving up on my project. Until I actually see one that does all that though, I'll still work on mine. I do love how they put triple li-ion batteries just like I had planned. It's only logical.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ge0dude

Right, I am familiar, but those are not what I am talking about, that is a glorified continuity checker.

If you buy cables from trusted manufacturer (I prefer to buy bulk from Van Damme, Mogami and Oehlbach and to solder connectors by myself) all parameters of particular cables are available from manufacturer. There is really nothing to test. If you use s-video cable up to 1,5m (and you do not need more anyway from your VCR to TBC and from TBC to capture card, even meanings of capacitance and impedance are theoretical. I would advice not to waste time. Continuity check is important.

[Redbread]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

Yes, but you would start by replacing the cable if something is wrong, not changing the cable as a last resort when everything else has been tried

Of course, that would be the case if it were obvious that there was a problem with the cable. But that’s not the case. The S-Video cable has good reviews, cost 10 euros, and fits perfectly. Unfortunately, my used S-Video cable also doesn’t work consistently. I guess I got my hopes up too soon there. (Both, however, run flawlessly with my VHS recorder and the TV.)

I get the feeling it’s a combination of the S-Video cable, the S-Video input of the Pinnacle device, and either the device’s USB cable or the computer’s USB input. Sometimes I have to fiddle with the USB cable, sometimes with the S-Video cable, and sometimes neither works. Before my last message, I digitized a video, but then there was no signal again. I hadn’t changed anything, left everything plugged in, and tried again the next day. Then it worked again for two tapes. Somehow the connection just seems to act up for no real reason.

But I guess no one can really help me with this anymore. Somehow, I’ll just make use of the time windows when it does work.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbread

I get the feeling it’s a combination of the S-Video cable, the S-Video input of the Pinnacle device, and either the device’s USB cable or the computer’s USB input. Sometimes I have to fiddle with the USB cable, sometimes with the S-Video cable, and sometimes neither works. Before my last message, I digitized a video, but then there was no signal again. I hadn’t changed anything, left everything plugged in, and tried again the next day. Then it worked again for two tapes. Somehow the connection just seems to act up for no real reason.

But I guess no one can really help me with this anymore. Somehow, I’ll just make use of the time windows when it does work.

It can be loose s-video socket soldering (it happens) or bad s-video socket. Those mini-din was not the best decision to use for s-video. 2xRCA/BNC would be better. But anyway, those sockets are available in nearly all shapes from Mouser etc. But the first check/resolder solder joints.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbread

I get the feeling it’s a combination of the S-Video cable, the S-Video input of the Pinnacle device, and either the device’s USB cable or the computer’s USB input. Sometimes I have to fiddle with the USB cable, sometimes with the S-Video cable, and sometimes neither works. Before my last message, I digitized a video, but then there was no signal again. I hadn’t changed anything, left everything plugged in, and tried again the next day. Then it worked again for two tapes. Somehow the connection just seems to act up for no real reason.
But I guess no one can really help me with this anymore. Somehow, I’ll just make use of the time windows when it does work.

The exact device you have is confirmed working, and performed flawlessly.

USB cables can randomly go bad. Sometimes computers can cause USB cables to overload (especially when the port type is new at manufacture time, or uses a low-QC Chinese supplier). That's easy enough to test with a replacement cable, though don't assume the replacement isn't also defective (as that happens).

s-video cables must fit properly, and not be forced into slots. For example, those fat-header tight-grip Monster cables have damaged vast amounts of gear, due to people forcing them in. They didn't know any better, but they do have to deal with the consequences.

Your issue may still be drivers.

It could even be something "simple" like the USB controller overheating on the computer, with such a long sustained data transfer, which can happen (especially laptops, mini PCs).

I think you've eliminated basic issues (card, s-video cable), so you'll have to look deeper at the system.

[radiokom]

If cable fiddling changes something I am sure there is a contact problem. And it can be anywhere. Now all manufacturers use lead free solder what cause solder cracking and contact loosing especially at connectors. So it is a good idea to resolder at least connectors. Get Sn60Pb40 1mm solder wire with flux, apply soldering flux for SMD ("no clean" version what is Colophony (rosin) - the same as that used for violin bows - solution in ethyl alcohol) and resolder all connectors. I have seen many damaged connectors and sockets too. Because someone instead of exact connecting started to penetrate socket with connector with rotating it until it fits. Result is broken connector pins, damaged and loose sockets. Common especially for all DIN connector types, including mini-din 4 used for S-video, but not only. They are not foolproof. And if about USB - if hell exists, I believe developers of USB connectors now lives in biggest and hottest pots.