JVC HR-S3902U to digitize tapes?

[F9zVHS]

I used another VCR and a TBC unit (forgot the brand/model) to digitize all of my VHS tapes that I owned. The result was GREAT! But I have to redo everything again because SOMEHOW, I managed to lose what I digitized, and I am forced to have to redo everything again.

My question, I just got a JVC HR-S3902U. And I was wondering if this any good to use to play VHS tapes so that I can capture it? Do I still need a TBC hooked up to it?

[radiokom]

The first you need VCR with line TBC, second - you need good frame TBC and third - decent capture card.
You can pair your VCR with Panasonic ES10/15 as line TBC with all drawbacks and it is not recommended for normal operation and should be used only in specific cases when built in line TBC is too weak. But anyway you need good frame TBC and capture card.

[lordsmurf]

JVC 3902 is low-end non-TBC S-VHS unit. You cannot capture straight from 3902 to capture card, as that path lacks any TBCs. It will have issues, namely dropped frames and audio desync.

ES10/15 is required to add line TBC.
But beware, this is not some sort of "cheat" (or "hack") to use cheaper gear. ES10/15 type recorders have strong+crippled line TBC, and non-TBC frame sync, along with various quality-reducing issues (posterization, noticeable AGC, luma offset, etc). It's "better than nothing", but far from suggested gear/method.

Lack of frame TBC will likely be an issue -- though the non-TBC frame sync, combined with a resilient capture card, and really good condition tapes (signal condition, not image condition) can passably function. It's not something I'd ever attempt for more than a dozen tapes or so.

There are many worse methods, but there are several better methods.

[F9zVHS]

Hi guys, thanks for the response. I do have some additional question. In the FAQ of the website, it has a list of VHS from best to no so good. I think JVC was 4th on the list, but said this about the JVC "JVC: The VHS units are not too shabby. Certainly not as good as JVC S-VHS equipment, or even the three VHS models mentioned above, but they often work okay.:" The only reason I got this VHS, was so that I could record using an Svideo to my panasonic es10 and then to my Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1800. I had used a SHARP vcr before and the outcome of that were great. Check it out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWkQme963Cs
So I guess my question is. Would me using a SVHS by JVC plugged into the ES10 card WITH SVIDEO, not give me better result than using your standard yellow composite (my sharp vcr)?

[lordsmurf]

In that context:
- Yes to JVC S-VHS for s-video
- Yes to ES10 for line TBC(ish)
- But no to capture card, it's an infamous Hauppauge card (most of them are). That's your weak link. (And that's precisely why I have capture cards in the marketplace, to help members avoid bad cards.)

Get a better card, and done, then start capturing.

[F9zVHS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

In that context:
- Yes to JVC S-VHS for s-video
- Yes to ES10 for line TBC(ish)
- But no to capture card, it's an infamous Hauppauge card (most of them are). That's your weak link. (And that's precisely why I have capture cards in the marketplace, to help members avoid bad cards.)

Get a better card, and done, then start capturing.

Thank you VERY much for your response. And yes, I apologize for not providing this info initially! I was at work typing it out on my phone and I was dead tired.

May I ask what's wrong with the Hauppauge card? It's a b!tch to get to work but once I understood it quirks, it served me quite well as seen from that youtube video. I do not mind buy a "better" capture card, but before I go that route, may I ask why these are disliked? I tried a pinnacle USB one initlally but HATED the video quality I got. Contrast was turn down to the MAX. I still have the capture card (usb), I just wasn't fond of the quality. I liked better what I saw with the Hauppauge though it was a pain to get to work. To avoid this pain, I bought 2 separate machine that I intend to install Windows 7. I also found that capturing VHS on a traditional HDD wasn't working as it couldn't keep up. So when I used a SSD instead, it kept up just fine and there were no more skips/jags. A lot of what I learned has been trial and error.

[lordsmurf]

Hauppauge was big into "PVR style" cards as the 1x00 cards came out. The 1200 was the first majorly awful card, and the 1800 was a continuation. There have been many bad Hauppauge cards -- in fact, most are bad, with a few decent/good exceptions (namely ATI 600 USB clones). The values are all over the place, stability and resilience is crap.

When you lack frame TBC, card resiliency becomes even more important.

Pinnacle is somewhat like Hauppauge, in that most of their cards were terrible. (Dazzle is especially lousy, but it's not actually a Pinnacle card. Pinnacle just brands Dazzle cards. Yes, Pinnacle owns Dazzle, but they never changed the card from when Dazzle was its own company.)

What I have are two very specific versions of a card model. Like other brands of capture cards -- or VCRs, TBCs, etc -- Pinnacle/Hauppauge had mid-production changes, so "the same" model is actually rarely "the same" at all. In number/letters only, not in terms of internals or firmwares. The duds tend to add noise patterning, etc.

Another common newbie mistake is adjusting color to your monitor, instead of to the video. I'm betting some of that was going on here too.

[F9zVHS]

You obviously know what you are talking about. I will buy one of your tuner cards sometime in the next coming weeks.

As far as the newbie mistake of adjusting color. Could you clarify a little? I believe I understand

[lordsmurf]

- If the monitor is too dark, and you lighten the capture card to "look good".
- If the monitor is too bright, and you darken the capture card.
- If the monitor washed out, and you up contrast.

The video is adversely affected, and will look wrong/bad/different on other monitors/TVs. That's why professional video had colorbars. But our sources lack that, so we must be careful. Hobbyists and pros calibrate their monitors, but casual DIY'ers have some calibration options as well (test DVDs/BDs, test patterns).

[F9zVHS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

- If the monitor is too dark, and you lighten the capture card to "look good".
- If the monitor is too bright, and you darken the capture card.
- If the monitor washed out, and you up contrast.

The video is adversely affected, and will look wrong/bad/different on other monitors/TVs. That's why professional video had colorbars. But our sources lack that, so we must be careful. Hobbyists and pros calibrate their monitors, but casual DIY'ers have some calibration options as well (test DVDs/BDs, test patterns).

OK, that's a GREAT explanation. Originally thought about 1, keeping the original raw files. Yes they has HUGE but at the same time, storage has gotten so cheap that its almost a moot point. 2, any videos edits i do will just be a copy of the original raw files, so if I ever feel i need to make a correction, raw files already exist as a copy.

The color correction, I am assuming that's usually done after the video has been captured right?

For reference, I looked at many guides. But this was the only guide that made sense to me in the technological (hardware he used) and his explanation.

-- merged --

Last question, does it matter what kind of Svideo cable i use?

[radiokom]

Yes. But you do not need something esoteric. Those "Hi-End" cables sometimes has improper size connectors so you can damage sockets. Get NOS Thomson, Hama, Vivanco etc in original package. S-Video cables from 90s. Do not exceed 1,5m (it is not so critical, but anyway shorter is better). And use quality audio cables too. All those VCRs has high impedance output so shorter cables are always better. Preferably up to 1m.

[lordsmurf]

Not Monster, never Monster.

Avoid cables with "fat headers", or anything too tight. Forcing cables into something just damages the something. VCRs, TBCs, capture cards, whatever. It's very common, and junk cables are the reason.

Yes, Monster is over-priced garbage. Even $2 Amazon cables are better than Monster, because those are not harmful to the devices. Shielding on cables doesn't need to be a quarter-inch (10mm) thick. That's just ridiculous.

Gold is equally stupid. The cables are not any more conductive by having a thin gold slime layer added to headers. All that does is make it pretty, assuming you think gold is pretty. (And I prefer matte silver, in terms of my favorite metal color, I don't find gold pretty at all!)

I'm not overly impressed by Blue Jeans either, or several other "name brands" (that almost nobody knows anyway). Even cables from Lowe's (GE, Philips, whatever) can be decent, as long as not fat headered, too tight, or just over-thick in general.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Gold is equally stupid. The cables are not any more conductive by having a thin gold slime layer added to headers. All that does is make it pretty, assuming you think gold is pretty. (I prefer matte silver.)

Yes, but they nearly all are gold platted, not silver. Nothing wrong with gold

Here is good example (I believe the same cables are available under other brands in US too, just simply another brand printed on them):

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

Yes, but they nearly all are gold platted, not silver. Nothing wrong with gold

I was just referring to "pretty metals", not video cables. I've edited my post for clarification.

The Lone Ranger prefers Silver too!

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Gold is equally stupid. The cables are not any more conductive by having a thin gold slime layer added to headers. All that does is make it pretty, assuming you think gold is pretty. (And I prefer matte silver, in terms of my favorite metal color, I don't find gold pretty at all!)

Maybe there are silver plated mini din-4, but they are rare Most are nickel or gold plated. However there is practically no difference in connection quality. There is nothing wrong if they are really gold platted (they does not oxidize), and not "Chinese gold" what became dull and oxidize with age For audio I prefer silver platted Neutrik or original Cannon XLR where applicable. They became black with age, but it does not affect connection quality. In unbalanced connections - Rean (gold plated).

[F9zVHS]

Do you guys recommend anything thats available on amazon? And with that, rule of thumb, don't force it, it should relatively just slide in

[radiokom]

Do not know about Amazon, but there are few examples on ebay:

Philips, basic cable, nothing special, but good enough (nickel platted connectors):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175430530757
Radio shack:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/395797351490
Radio shack:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/396933196292
Philips:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/365740087638
Acoustic research:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/186912657507

Find something like those - NOS in original packaging.

[F9zVHS]

Hey guys, I found this
https://insurrectionindustries.com/p...tegory/cables/
They specialize in making cables like they use to back in the day

[radiokom]

You want to play games or get S-video cable? What you need is described above - new old stock cable.
What you buy is up to you. But there is no s-video cable anyway.

[F9zVHS]

I think you are missing the point.
https://insurrectionindustries.com/p...deo-y-c-cable/
This is S-Video (highly praised on retro redit sub) and it includes stereo with it too.
May be a good alternative for those looking for good cables in the event they cant get old school cables. I'm no tbeing ungrateful, just sharing what I found. I plan on buying these as well and testing them out