PAL archiving setup for VHS, Hi8, Digital8?

[Strategos]

Hi all, long time lurker here over the years trying to figure out the best way to archive old VHS/Hi8/Digital8 tapes. Hope you can help with the gaps in my setup/knowledge

UK, so PAL region. All kept from our own past home usage only.
I have these 2 VCR players:

Panasonic DMR-ES30V
Toshiba DVR20

Both combo DVD/VHS players. I've also read that component on the ES30V is only used for DVD player output.

Video cameras: Hitachi VM-E330E, Samsung VP-W80U, Sony DCR-TRV285E

I have Hauppauge USB-Live2, I heard the BlackMagic require very clean signals to be used best.

I'll be told to get a TBC as well, does either of the VCR's I have have a line TBC by any chance? (not much info about these that I could find, so if anyone knows it would be great).

Also I'll build a new small PC for this - would like to be able to use it just for archiving, so trying to cover all bases - eg, Firewire input/compatibility. Any suggestions or things to keep in mind would be helpful before I build it and have any regrets.

So my question is: What would be a decent setup and connectivity needed to get the best out of this equipment and start testing some recordings?

Thanks all, and great to see the forum still thriving

[ge0dude]

Welcome, I was also a long time lurker before joining.

The DMR-ES30V *might* have a TBC, but if it does it's probably a weaker line TBC that only works on passthrough or when recording directly to DVD. It doesn't even have s-video out for the VHS portion. (You'll want to use S-Video instead of composite in most cases.)

Neither of those VCR's will bring you good quality, and I highly suggest picking a VCR from the VCR buying guide if you can afford it.

A TBC is also a must, but if you don't have the budget there are budget workflows that have some sore drawbacks. (Panasonic DMR-ES10 or DMR-ES15 combined with a DataVideo DVK-100 or DVK-200 works as a poor mans TBC, and is LordSmurf approved as long as you acknowledge it's drawbacks, the biggest of which is posterization in image.)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any of your cameras have S-Video out, and you'll want a camera with S-video out and a TBC, there's a buying guide for that here too somewhere on the forum (check the stickys in the correct subforum.) The Sonys are awesome.

I'm not as familiar with digital8 but I assume you do that through firewire, but I'll let someone else with more experience with that chime in.

Good luck!

EDIT-

as far as building your pc goes, just make sure your OS is compatible with your video card/dongle. I don't think that hauppage is the best but it's okay. If you're willing to build a new pc, you could also consider a new capture card. If you want the best capture you can't beat an older XP system with an ATI all-in-wonder card. The hardware is old but the capture is unmatched. Easy way to upgrade your quality and it would cost less than building a modern PC. You can put a firewire card in anything with a PCI or pci-e x1 slot.

[Strategos]

Thanks so much I'll probably try it out piece by piece and upgrade each part as I can. Thanks for the camcorder S-Video tip !

Quote:

Originally Posted by ge0dude

(You'll want to use S-Video instead of composite in most cases.)

First question is, is Scart not good enough?

[ge0dude]

Yes SCART can carry an s-video signal, you might need a converter (sorry for not being so familiar, I am from NTSC-land.)

[mts1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strategos

First question is, is Scart not good enough?

Scart can carry any signal. However, they usually pretty flimsy...
Also, you would need a "fat" one, where each wire is shielded individually.
It might easier to get a dongle, where scart connector has integrated Composite/S-Video input/output.

[lordsmurf]

I left this tab open, never hit submit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strategos

Hi all, long time lurker here over the years trying to figure out the best way to archive old VHS/Hi8/Digital8 tapes. Hope you can help with the gaps in my setup/knowledge

Welcome.

Quote:

I have these 2 VCR players:
Panasonic DMR-ES30V
Toshiba DVR20
does either of the VCR's I have have a line TBC by any chance?

- Toshiba, no.
- That Panasonic ES30V, it seems so, yes. Certain Panasonic recorded have strong+crippled line TBC, with non-TBC frame sync, and it does add some % of noise to the image. Better than nothing, not the best.

Quote:

I have Hauppauge USB-Live2, I heard the BlackMagic require very clean signals to be used best.

That Live2 card also needs clean signals, it's drop-happy (dropped frame). Most Hauppage cards have always been low-end, and this one is really no different. (Ironically, the only decent Hauppauge USB cards wasn't even made by Hauppauge, but is a rebadge, and effectively a clone of the ATI 600 USB.)

Quote:

I'll be told to get a TBC as well,

Note the difference between line TBC and frame TBC.

- line cleans the image
- frame cleans the signal (prevents dropped frames, audio sync issues, etc)
You need both.

Quote:

Also I'll build a new small PC for this - would like to be able to use it just for archiving, so trying to cover all bases - eg, Firewire input/compatibility. Any suggestions or things to keep in mind would be helpful before I build it and have any regrets.
So my question is: What would be a decent setup and connectivity needed to get the best out of this equipment and start testing some recordings?
Thanks all, and great to see the forum still thriving

Firewire means DV, and DV is 1990s technology (and quality). Lossless is what you want, not DV. DV was made for Pentium III computers and tiny under-100gb hard drives (smaller than modern flash drives!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ge0dude

A TBC is also a must, but if you don't have the budget there are budget workflows that have some sore drawbacks. (Panasonic DMR-ES10 or DMR-ES15 combined with a DataVideo DVK-100 or DVK-200 works as a poor mans TBC, and is LordSmurf approved as long as you acknowledge it's drawbacks, the biggest of which is posterization in image.)

Yep, that's it. Know the limitations.

Too many people try something, get some degree of success, then proceed to proclaim it to be the best thing ever -- often without ever having tried any alternative, and thus have no basis for comparison, no basis to make claims of "best ever".

But to a lesser degree, on a budget, it absolutely can (might, may) work. ES10/15 is minimalist, but fortified with modded DVK often makes it very effective. There are quality-reducing drawbacks, but you could do vastly worse (no TBC, wrong TBC, flawed TBC). But obviously also much better, albeit for more costs.