Best USB capture device in 2023 for Win11?

[HannesK]

I recently got a JVC HR-S8960E SVHS recorder with internal TBC
and 6 years ago I got this cheap USB capture device
CLS USB 2 grabber
https://www.amazon.de/CSL-Zubeh%C3%B...s%2C106&sr=8-3

I don't think it delivers the best quality but I can't tell since I haven't seen others yet. (and I don't know if all USB capture sticks that are available these days use the same chips anyway)
I'm using a laptop to capture so I'm looking for USB capture devices.
Are there any better devices - regarding better quality - available for windows 11?
I want to capture lossles in Virtualdub (4:2:2)
I've read the posts of lordsmurf but I can't seem to find any of the recommended devices on Amazon in 2023 neither would most of them work with Win11, I suppose.

Thanks for any advice!

[BarryTheCrab]

I am using the "legacy" Tevion USB in Windows 10, with the Vidbox NW03 driver. I have no complaints.
Members would be keen, I think, to know if the old trusty Tevion works on W11.
Do not fall for the other crappy Tevions.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HannesK

CLS USB 2 grabber
https://www.amazon.de/CSL-Zubeh%C3%B.../dp/B00EOSCG7Y
I don't think it delivers the best quality but I can't tell since I haven't seen others yet.

That's a typical Easycap. Junk.

Quote:

(and I don't know if all USB capture sticks that are available these days use the same chips anyway)

No.

Quote:

Are there any better devices - regarding better quality -

Yes.

Quote:

available for windows 11?

Not really. The same card will work on one system, but not the next. Win11 driver conflicts exist, similar to how Win10 had so many Nvidia issues. Common hardware, thus common problems. Nvidia doesn't care about a SD capture card for the 00s or 10s.

Quote:

but I can't seem to find any of the recommended devices on Amazon in 2023 neither would most of them work with Win11, I suppose.

Capturing videotapes was a 2000s task, and it's now the 2020s. What we have left is legacy hardware that needs a legacy OS, Chinese USB crap, and HD cards that "also do" SD quite poorly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryTheCrab

I am using the "legacy" Tevion USB in Windows 10, with the Vidbox NW03 driver. I have no complaints.
Members would be keen, I think, to know if the old trusty Tevion works on W11.

I'll test this next week.

[HannesK]

Thanks a lot for your response lordsmurf and thank you Barry too.

I checked the drivers of my CLS USB device and you are right, it's Easycrap.

I totally understand that I would need to set up a legacy PC with Win XP. I know I should but I do not want to go that length to be honest.

Do you think trying the Hauppauge USB Live 2 is a step up from what I have and worth a try?
https://www.amazon.de/Hauppauge-USB-.../dp/B003Q2ZA36
I read that it works under Win11 (in general).

Thanks a lot for sharing your expertise.

[lordsmurf]

If you don't have a frame TBC, or even a non-TBC frame sync, that's a complete dead end. It's a touchy card. It's just as old as everything else, from the 00s. Hauppauge hasn't updated (truly updated) drvers for it in years. Install requires ignoring Win10/11 security warnings, and even then it can fail to function correctly.

FYI, Win11 likes to "do stuff" in the background, such as phone home (especially to Microsoft Update, the built-in anti-malware, etc), and that will cause dropped frames. It pisses me off even on my non-capture system, sudden CPU and RAM spikes.

Let me test the ATI clone this weekend, or next week.

[HannesK]

Thanks, understood.

Yes, please let me know if the Tevion ATI clone works.
Thanks a lot.

[aramkolt]

My experience with the Tevion on Win10 was that it didn't preserve the interlacing and did some sort of internal deinterlacing that I could not find a way to change. Could just be some sort of incompatibility with OBS, but other cards like the GV-USB2 did output interlaced correctly there.

This review is pretty good on the StarTech and apparently it's sharper than the GV-USB2 - just jump to the 6 minute mark for the actual review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcpbnU63_kY

The Startech also seems to maybe not allow interlaced captures though, so something to be aware of.

Could be that OBS specifically is the issue there and it's possible that virtualdub may allow interlaced while OBS does not by default.

[HannesK]

Thanks aram, but in the Amazon reviews I read that the "dongly" StarTech drivers do not work with Win11 either.

I got my CLS USB device to work by disabling "Core isolation" in Win11 - that allowed me to install the old drivers. Maybe that helps with other devices too.

-- merged --

Guys, I just compared the CSL USB Grabber that I mentioned in my first post, with the Hauppauge USB Live 2.
See the attached image.
Upper left is the Hauppauge, top middle is the CSL. The source is an SVHS tape played with a JVC 8960 (with internal line TBC). Captured with VirtualDub, PAL, no color conversions of any sort.

Bottom row: Middle: Same content that I captured 3 years ago with the CSL device, played from the Panasonic SVHS Camcorder that was originally used to film the material.
Right: forget about that one but I just wanted to see how good/bad the end result is of my processing that I did 3 years ago.

Any comments are welcome.
From the 3 versions (Hauppauge, CSL with JVC and with Panasonic camcorder) the colors of the Hauppauge look best. What is your expert opinion?

P.s.: I have added 2 more scenes for better comparison.
I cannot guarantee that I got exactly the same frame (same field) in all still images.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

My experience with the Tevion on Win10 was that it didn't preserve the interlacing Could just be some sort of incompatibility with OBS,

Correct, OBS is the problem here. OBS is digital streaming "broadcast" (not really) software. It's not SD analog ingest/capture software. It should never be used for this sort of task. And no, I don't care about "well it sees the card", because it's treating the card like a webcam.

Yes, both are video, but then so are the cameras that doctor have you swallow for digestive exams (and you later poop out). Sometimes "video" isn't "video", very wide arena.

That said, I'll be sure to deep inspect the Tevion ATI clone when I run it on Win10 and Win11 next week, and using various drivers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HannesK

Any comments are welcome.
What is your expert opinion?
P.s.: I have added 2 more scenes for better comparison.

You were snared by the forum max allowed pixel length, so now the images are way too small to see. Try again, but stack vertical. This will be resolved in the forum upgrade early next year.

[HannesK]

Ok, let's try again. Hope this time works.

Comparison of the Hauppauge USB Live 2 with the CSL USB Grabber.
Top: Hauppauge, source is SVHS-C tape played with a JVC 8960 (with internal line TBC)
Middle: CSL USB grabber (EasyCap), same source, same JVC recorder
Bottom: CSL USB grabber, same source, played by the Panasonic SVHC camcorder that originally recorded the tape

[lordsmurf]

Yes, Hauppauge best here -- others are mushy, blow out -- but all 3 are blah. Not sure how much is the source at fault here.

[HannesK]

I added 2 more scenes - same tape - see above.

Yes, the Hauppauge is best. The tapes are from 1993, maybe played 3 times, if at all, so in a fresh condition. The camcorder is a Panasonic Palmcorder X16. Can't change the quality of the source... have lots of holiday videos like that.

Any recommendations how to process them? based on the Hauppauge capture.

[Tea Monster]

Which Tevion is the "Legacy" one? Have you got a model number?

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea Monster

Which Tevion is the "Legacy" one? Have you got a model number?

Tevion doesn't use model numbers.

[Tea Monster]

This is one I picked up recently. I don't know if that is the one you guys were using.
I've found that it has a reasonably clear picture and actually surpasses the Dazzle. The only problem is that the blacks are clipped.

EDIT: I've tried this through the provided virtual VCR software and recorded to MPEG2 and got a result that was very dark and had visible compression issues. I then used it more traditionally through VirtualDub and recorded to avi with lagarith with much better results.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea Monster

This is one I picked up recently. I don't know if that is the one you guys were using.
I've found that it has a reasonably clear picture and actually surpasses the Dazzle. The only problem is that the blacks are clipped.

No, that's a rebadge of a generic "grabber".

But yes, it will still be better than a lousy Dazzle. Not stellar quality, but "less bad". So in that regards, it was an upgrade. However, there are better capture cards to be had.

Black clipping is the outcome of legalizing. To avoid clipping, proc amps are required to correct the source before capture/ingest.

[Tea Monster]

Does anyone have any information on whether the Diamond VC500 is any better than the Hauppauge 1341 USB-Live2? I've heard that the Diamond uses the same chip as the Elgato. I've heard that the Hauppauge device has a nice picture, but that was a different model and I don't trust anything hardware wise any more as they swap and change chips.

-- merged --

Here are some examples of capture devices I've used over the years.
1. Dazzle 101
2. Philips BT878
3. Tevion USB 2800D
4. Canopus AD-VC55

I don't know what chips are in the Tevion, Canopus or Dazzle.

Just a note, the address in the shot was a publicly available one at the time, I'm not doxing anyone.

[lordsmurf]

- That Canopus has some major loss, as expected.
- The Dazzle really messes with color/exposure, and soft, as expected.
- Typical BT8x8 AR issue, also some nasty values.
- That "grabber" Tevion has some luma crushing, but it can probably be mitigated or resolved in software proc amp (+4?). It's probably the most natural.

In a relative sense, comparing only these 4 cards, that Tevin is easily best. In an absolute sense, it's mid-range. Several better, many worse.

Off-topic:
How would showing an ancient fan society address be doxxing?
Back in the day, I'm sure they wanted members!

[Tea Monster]

I'm just playing safe with the address, just in case. Some people get very tetchy about stuff.

I've been adjusting some values and played with curves and gamma in Blender* and VirtualDub to bring the picture back to normal, which is doing the job of a proc amp I suppose. This is with a brightness contrast filter, QTGMC de-interlacing and some warp sharpening in VirtualDub. I can further tweak in Blender.

*I work in 3D so I do my video editing in Blender as I know how to get what I want from it. It's an unusual choice.

EDIT: They DID want members, but they took, a year to reply to our letter! This was back in 1988.