Panasonic DMR HDMI output interlaced or progressive?

DarkStar · #1 01-20-2026, 10:38 PM

I got my hands on an NTSC Panasonic DMR with HDMI-out (specifically the DMR-ES45v). I wanted to ask if these models can preserve the interlacing on HDMI-out. In the manual it says I can choose between [480p] [720p] and [1080i].

I've heard reports that the progressive output for these DMR's is very bad, and it does not de-interlace properly and it ends up being closer to 30fps than 60fps. Can anyone confirm if this is true?

I was hoping I could capture in 1080i and attempt better de-interlacing later, but I'm not sure if it preserves it well, and the DMR does not de-interlace and re-interlace or something awful like that.

I don't have any experience with Panasonic DMR's from this era so I'm concerned about losing data while capturing.

lordsmurf · #2 01-20-2026, 11:38 PM

I don't know the specifics of this exact model, but that's generally true of all NTSC HDMI output. Not suggested.

PAL can be different, although those that claim this also often have terrible output.

HDMI was not intended for SD videotapes.

latreche34 · #3 01-21-2026, 01:12 AM

Very few DVD recorders from back in the day have dialed in specs over HDMI that conform to the standard, Even if some of them have 480i/576i output, but often the levels are too hot or too dark.

DarkStar · #4 01-21-2026, 01:31 AM

I was indeed warned that the HDMI output would be not great.

I guess I can still do some comparisons to see if it's closer to 60 fps than 30 fps on passthrough. Just to see. If not, will stick to S-Video/Component.

aramkolt · #5 01-21-2026, 10:00 AM

There are a fair number of DVD/HDD players that will allow 480i vs 480p/~60fps and sometimes they are selectable. I think 480i it is more common on HDD recorders because they natively record in MPEG2 to their hard drives, so they are used to keeping things interlaced for storage and playback.

As far as output levels go, some DVD/HDD recorders have proc amp settings that likely affect passthrough as well, I think more commonly so in Sony, Pioneer, and Toshiba units if memory serves. HDMI and SDI can technically carry illegal (non broadcast) levels depending on the setup and depending on how that is recorded, those illegal levels might be recoverable post capture without clipping up to a certain point.

Since there are so many variables, I'd recommend doing a capture and view vectorscope/waveform monitor on the captured file to look for any evidence of clipping in bright/dark scenes. The captured file sample should also show what the output framerate is (59.94 vs 60).

DarkStar · #6 01-21-2026, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

There are a fair number of DVD/HDD players that will allow 480i vs 480p/~60fps and sometimes they are selectable. I think 480i it is more common on HDD recorders because they natively record in MPEG2 to their hard drives, so they are used to keeping things interlaced for storage and playback.

As far as output levels go, some DVD/HDD recorders have proc amp settings that likely affect passthrough as well, I think more commonly so in Sony, Pioneer, and Toshiba units if memory serves. HDMI and SDI can technically carry illegal (non broadcast) levels depending on the setup and depending on how that is recorded, those illegal levels might be recoverable post capture without clipping up to a certain point.

Since there are so many variables, I'd recommend doing a capture and view vectorscope/waveform monitor on the captured file to look for any evidence of clipping in bright/dark scenes. The captured file sample should also show what the output framerate is (59.94 vs 60).

Thanks for the suggestions, will be sure to do some captures testing for those.

Edit: I forgot to ask. What is your preferred program to show the vectorscope/waveforms?

vwestlife · #7 01-27-2026, 02:25 PM

If it's like JVC's standard-def camcorders which upscaled to 1080p60 via HDMI, then it uses a simple "bob" de-interlacing method to convert 60i to 60p. It looks OK as long as you always view the output in 60fps. If you convert it to 30fps, you end up with "jaggies" and sometimes text/fine details that appear to jump up and down.

aramkolt · #8 01-27-2026, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkStar

Thanks for the suggestions, will be sure to do some captures testing for those.

Edit: I forgot to ask. What is your preferred program to show the vectorscope/waveforms?

As far as free programs go, Davinci Resolve works pretty well, but I think most of the other expert users use something different though.

DarkStar · #9 01-28-2026, 05:25 PM

Update: I finally got my hands on the machine, and I'm pretty satisfied with the image quality. It's much better than all of those cheap AV-HDMI adapters I used to use. I'm currently outputting via component out into a Portta Component to HDMI adapter (the old one, the new one apparently isn't as good), which is then connected to my Elgato HD60. I can confirm that the raw .ts files produced by the Elgato program are indeed interlaced and 29.97 FPS. I then ran it through Hybrid with QTGMC and Bob and it de-interlaced beautifully to 59.94 FPS without jaggies, and no repeated frames. Finally happy with the result. I can confirm the newer Elgato's like the HD60X do not preserve the interlacing and automatically deinterlace which ruins the video.

I know component is often discouraged due to being worse than S-Video, but the other analog outputs for this machine are unusually bright for some reason. I read up a bit about the solutions, but I'm probably just going to stick to my current setup because component seems to be pretty stable right now.

I'll try to post samples when I capture tv recordings.

aramkolt · #10 01-28-2026, 06:05 PM

I personally don't have a problem with component and would probably use it on any passthrough device that has a digital stage inside, but no digital output (so no SDI, DVI, or HDMI) which would be even better assuming there's a native resolution interlaced output option. Component will more closely approximate the digital stage than S-Video will being higher bandwidth at describing the characteristics of each "pixel." S-Video can be better if there hasn't been an analog to digital conversion yet in most cases, but many DVD/VHS recorders do not have component video output for VHS sources.

Also, if elgato is outputting .TS files, then you're capturing in MPEG2 which is likely introducing some compression artifacts unless it is very high bitrate. MPEG2 can look plenty fine under the right conditions and content, I just don't think it is commonly recommended for archival if the goal is to avoid those compression artifacts. It does save a lot space though.

lordsmurf · #11 01-29-2026, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

I personally don't have a problem with component and would probably use it on any passthrough device that has a digital stage inside, but no digital output (so no SDI, DVI, or HDMI) which would be even better assuming there's a native resolution interlaced output option. .

But you're assuming processing (chroma separation) is done to quality. That's not often the case with consumer DVD recorders. The goal was "cheapest", not "best".

DarkStar · #12 01-29-2026, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

I personally don't have a problem with component and would probably use it on any passthrough device that has a digital stage inside, but no digital output (so no SDI, DVI, or HDMI) which would be even better assuming there's a native resolution interlaced output option. Component will more closely approximate the digital stage than S-Video will being higher bandwidth at describing the characteristics of each "pixel." S-Video can be better if there hasn't been an analog to digital conversion yet in most cases, but many DVD/VHS recorders do not have component video output for VHS sources.

Also, if elgato is outputting .TS files, then you're capturing in MPEG2 which is likely introducing some compression artifacts unless it is very high bitrate. MPEG2 can look plenty fine under the right conditions and content, I just don't think it is commonly recommended for archival if the goal is to avoid those compression artifacts. It does save a lot space though.

I ran the file through mediainfo to show the file properties.

Code:

General
ID                                       : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
File size                                : 2.68 GiB
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 12.2 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 29.970 FPS

Video
ID                                       : 100 (0x64)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L3.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=2, N=14
Codec ID                                 : 27
Duration                                 : 31 min 28 s
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601

Audio #1
ID                                       : 101 (0x65)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -24 ms
Language                                 : English

Audio #2
ID                                       : 103 (0x67)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -67 ms
Language                                 : English

Audio #3
ID                                       : 105 (0x69)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -55 ms
Language                                 : English

Audio #4
ID                                       : 1003 (0x3EB)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -55 ms
Language                                 : English

Audio #5
ID                                       : 1004 (0x3EC)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -55 ms
Language                                 : English

Audio #6
ID                                       : 1005 (0x3ED)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -55 ms
Language                                 : English

Audio #7
ID                                       : 1008 (0x3F0)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -55 ms
Language                                 : English

Audio #8
ID                                       : 1009 (0x3F1)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -55 ms
Language                                 : English

Audio #9
ID                                       : 1011 (0x3F3)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -55 ms
Language                                 : English

Audio #10
ID                                       : 1013 (0x3F5)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -55 ms
Language                                 : English

Audio #11
ID                                       : 1015 (0x3F7)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -55 ms
Language                                 : English

Audio #12
ID                                       : 1255 (0x4E7)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Format version                           : Version 4
Muxing mode                              : ADTS
Codec ID                                 : 15-2
Duration                                 : 31 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -55 ms
Language                                 : English

aramkolt · #13 01-30-2026, 09:25 AM

That is pretty interesting actually - looks to be AVC/H264 in an MPEG-TS wrapper. H264 is a fairly lossy codec and is 4:2:0 meaning that you are discarding the color information completely on every other horizontal line, but a video bitrate of 12Mbit/s is pretty decent for SD. I think you'd do better capturing interlaced in DV, MPEG2, ProRes, or lossless AVI (preference generally goes in that order, though I tend to like ProRes better for being Mac friendly and 10 bit at similar sizes to Lossless AVI). MPEG-TS is probably more geared for streaming purposes than archival for the above reasons.

The progressive flag here doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't still interlaced, but I don't think H264/AVC is known for good interlaced support. Whether it is still interlaced I think you'd get a better idea of if you can see combing during motion and see if it goes away when turning a deinterlacing filter on for something like VLC.

I also don't understand why there are 12 audio tracks though, other than the main stereo track, that's all wasted space that could be going to video bitrate instead. It's kind of interesting how the audio tracks have different delays on them. If there's a way to turn off additional audio tracks that you don't need, that would be beneficial storage-wise. You can use FFMPEG to strip unnecessary audio tracks after a capture without re-encoding a video, but it's extra steps and kind of a waste of a lot of disc writing since it'll make a whole new file and you'll then have to delete the old file. SSDs only have so many writes before they'll quit working, so if this is something you do a lot, it might shorten hardware life.

I won't pretend to be an expert on video codecs, but seems you could do a lot better with a different HDMI capture device that doesn't capture as a lossy compressed format like H264 that doesn't really handle interlaced content very well.

A short video clip/sample would probably be helpful.

lordsmurf · #14 01-31-2026, 01:52 AM

Audio tracks can be ghosts in the stream header.

DarkStar · #15 02-13-2026, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

That is pretty interesting actually - looks to be AVC/H264 in an MPEG-TS wrapper. H264 is a fairly lossy codec and is 4:2:0 meaning that you are discarding the color information completely on every other horizontal line, but a video bitrate of 12Mbit/s is pretty decent for SD. I think you'd do better capturing interlaced in DV, MPEG2, ProRes, or lossless AVI (preference generally goes in that order, though I tend to like ProRes better for being Mac friendly and 10 bit at similar sizes to Lossless AVI). MPEG-TS is probably more geared for streaming purposes than archival for the above reasons.

The progressive flag here doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't still interlaced, but I don't think H264/AVC is known for good interlaced support. Whether it is still interlaced I think you'd get a better idea of if you can see combing during motion and see if it goes away when turning a deinterlacing filter on for something like VLC.

I also don't understand why there are 12 audio tracks though, other than the main stereo track, that's all wasted space that could be going to video bitrate instead. It's kind of interesting how the audio tracks have different delays on them. If there's a way to turn off additional audio tracks that you don't need, that would be beneficial storage-wise. You can use FFMPEG to strip unnecessary audio tracks after a capture without re-encoding a video, but it's extra steps and kind of a waste of a lot of disc writing since it'll make a whole new file and you'll then have to delete the old file. SSDs only have so many writes before they'll quit working, so if this is something you do a lot, it might shorten hardware life.

I won't pretend to be an expert on video codecs, but seems you could do a lot better with a different HDMI capture device that doesn't capture as a lossy compressed format like H264 that doesn't really handle interlaced content very well.

A short video clip/sample would probably be helpful.

I removed the extra audio tracks and the filesize decreased significantly, like 10+ MB reduction from 95 MB originally. Don't know why it has so many tracks.

This is a snippet from a VHS-C tape I had lying around.

-- merged --

Didn't want to bump the thread, but I did some more tests for the HDMI out for this device, in case it can be helpful for others. I can confirm that the 720p option indeed de-interlaces to 59.94 fps, and the 1080i option is 30 FPS even when I capture at 59.94 fps. The audio quality is slightly cleaner over HDMI than when I outputted via analog to my component adapter. The video is okay at least, the silver lining being at least it's not 30 FPS, just have to make sure to not select Auto for the resolution, and NOT 1080i. However, the de-interlacing is definitely pretty bad and introduces quite a bit of jaggies.