Made mistakes with VHS capture method?

[solmafilmco]

Like many here Im looking to transfer old VHS tapes to digital files and ended up watching this video except I do not own a TBC.

Currently this workflow works great when connecting a DVD player or my hi8 camcorder but theres absolutely nothing displaying when connecting my VHS player to the BlackMagic Analog to SDI.

Would purchasing a VHS player with built in TBC work ? Should I start over and going a diff route?

[aramkolt]

I'm not really a fan of that particular method because it does realtime upscaling and deinterlacing and is almost certainly at much poorer quality than if you captured interlaced and then upscale/deinterlace post capture. The results probably aren't the worst ever, but it definitely is not ideal. You could achieve probably the same or better results with an AJA FS1 which contains a Frame TBC and will do realtime upscaling (or it can leave it interlaced) via SDI output to then record with whatever you want that accepts SDI. I have messed around with an FS1 and it didn't like the VCR NTSC blue screen, but seemed to do fine otherwise when used with a VCR with TBC. The VCR TBC corrects horizontal errors that the the FS1 might not. There are a fair number of other pro TBCs that'll also upscale live in realtime if that's the goal. Several Snell and Wilcox models as well as the For.A FA-9100 that immediately come to mind that can do it. I believe some of the later DPS models can also upscale, such as the X50 and X75.

But yeah, not having a stable enough signal for the analog to SDI converter leads to unstable output for sure. Line TBC may help, but stiil may not be stable enough without a frame TBC

[dpalomaki]

^+1. In general, BlackMagic Designs gear want to see signals with a good time base, and it sounds like the VHS VCR output has time base issues. Using a VCR with built-in TBC should help address that issue, but you may need an external full frame TBC too. (My observation is that tapes and VCRs in good condition may not need the TBCs, but other VCR and tape combinations will need it.)

Up scaling VHS (or Video8/Hi8) at capture make no sense to me. It adds bulk to the file , makes subsequent processing more difficult and resource intensive, and can add artifacts from the upscale process artifacts.

[solmafilmco]

I dont mind capturing at 480p and then upscaling in post. Luckily I didnt spend much $ on all these devices.

[aramkolt]

Any chance you can post a sample of what the 480p capture looked like? Even just a few seconds with some moderate motion might be interesting. Did you otherwise copy the chain in the video exactly?

[dpalomaki]

What make/model VHS VCR are you using? FWIW SD VHS is not naturally 480p, it was ~60 interlaced field(~30 frames) per second. NTSC was 525 lines per frame, 486 of which were nominally image. DV used 480 lines for image.

[lordsmurf]

Welcome.

"480p" means "480 pixels, progressive", and VHS was never progressive. It's interlaced.

Progressive means "one after another", like frames of film.
Interlaces is weave, each frame is 2 moments in time, every other line.

480p is also always referred to as something like 480p30 or 480p60, where the number after the P is the frame rate.
In the case of analog videotape NTSC, it is 29.97fps, period, the end, no exceptions.

VHS is shorthanded to 480i, and the fps is referred to as either 29.97 or 60i -- but nobody uses 480i60, for whatever reason.

Clear as mud yet?

That video you saw on Youtube is crap. People need to stop trying to force analog videotapes in HD resolution. And also stop using OBS software, which is not made for videotape analog capture. He also has the flawed black AVT-8710. He's clearly way outside his expertise here -- and he does admit it, so listen to him.

So, which items does you own exactly?

[solmafilmco]

Quote:

Any chance you can post a sample of what the 480p capture looked like? Even just a few seconds with some moderate motion might be interesting. Did you otherwise copy the chain in the video exactly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD59atAbGQM

[lordsmurf]

Even with the erratic handheld camera motion, I see dropped frames that make it look even more jerky. VHS transfer don't have to look this bad. The tape was fine, the method and hardware was bad.

The deinterlacing isn't very good, lots of jaggies everywhere.

Honestly, that's a good sample for "what not to do".

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by solmafilmco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD59atAbGQM

Yes very shaky camera but I've seen a lot worse transfers.