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  #41  
07-18-2015, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
... file with "lines" set to 576 and decoding it with "lines" set to 288 was no problem.
Yes, with PAL = 288
With NTSC = 240

Quote:
"Ignore is-interlaced flag"
No hook

An example,see screen


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  #42  
07-18-2015, 02:49 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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I think we're having a language barrier issue.

I know the proper settings (and 288 works as a threshold for both PAL & NTSC if you stick to standard SD resolutions). I was deliberately trying to find out which wrong settings can trigger the decode error.
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  #43  
07-19-2015, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
I did a few test encode-decodes and I wasn't able to trigger the problem this way.
Okay, so a known incompatibility was introduced when other developers modified the original Huffyuv 2.1.1 to create the CCE-SP patch, 2.2.0, MT, and the other off-shoots.

Huffyuv 2.1.1 encodes and decodes any Huffyuv file according to the rule that interlaced = true when lines > 288.

The original CCE-SP patch replaced this with a global setting stored in an INI file.

Quote:
Video with more than <threshold> lines will be processed interlaced by Huffyuv. The default value (used in older versions) is 288.

Warning: Decompressing an interlaced video with a higher current threshold (so that huffyuv will not use field processing) will fail! The setting is stored in the ini-file, not in the video!
Quote:
Warning: There is only this global setting, Huffyuv does not store this setting in the individual avi-files!
Decoding a video with 480 lines, compressed interlaced with a 288 threshold after setting a new threshold of 480 lines will fail and vice versa!
With 0.2.4, the CCE-SP patch wrote a flag into the file so it was no longer reliant on the INI file's threshold to determine whether the interlaced encoding mode was used. But Huffyuv 2.2.0, from a different author, introduced a different flag to do the same thing. So the author of the CCE-SP patch pulled 0.2.4 and made 0.2.5 mutually-compatible with Huffyuv 2.2.0.

For ffmpeg's Huffyuv, the patch removing the hardcoded threshold (src code) mentions the incompatibility with older versions:
Quote:
Since the hard threshold was also in the decoder, the resulting files are backwards compatible if and only if you use the same interlacing option as would've happened before. The interlacing flag should be compatible with Huffyuv 2.2.0, but I haven't tested that.
Having said all of that, this only explains the problem with decoding the OP's file if he created it using a Huffyuv version older than CCE-SP patch 0.2.5.

---

EDIT: I successfully decoded the file, at any rate. Huffyuv's debugging option was helpful. The "Ignore is-interlaced flag" setting causes the decoder to behave the same way as the CCE-SP patch versions before 0.2.4; the global Field Threshold setting from the INI is used to determine the decoding mode.

I used AVISource("test pentrex 5 ATI MMC 7-10-15.avi",fourcc="HYMT") to force Huffyuv-MT to decode this HFYU file, since 2.2.0 lacks the "Ignore is-interlaced flag" setting and I don't feel like installing another version.

Huffyuv-MT configuration dialog.PNG
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288 / Field processing enabled
Huffyuv-MT console window logging.PNG

576 / Field processing disabled (with Avisynth Info)
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The frame rate is bad, and I hear clicking in the audio track.



Last edited by msgohan; 07-19-2015 at 01:13 PM.
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  #44  
07-20-2015, 06:48 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Thanks, msgohan. Answered many questions.
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  #45  
07-20-2015, 08:30 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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From your post #37:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingfahrer View Post
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sanlyn.jpg (52.9 KB


The image you posted uses the script for 03.avi to process the dark clip 01.avi. The same script can't be used for both videos, they have different problems. The script that I used for the video shown in your image was different and involved 2 steps in 2 scripts.

The script for Step1 is below. The original black borders (which are too bright and too noisy) were cropped from the video and the core image was run in Avisynth. The borders are replaced later in Step2. At the same time I loaded four VirtualDub filters and saved the output of that Step1 process as YV12 lossless (I used Lagarith lossless compression).

Step1:
Code:
AviSource("path\to\video\Huff_MT.avi")

ConvertToYV12(interlaced=false)
Crop(36,64,-60,-76)
HQDering()
ContrastMask(enhance=10)
SmoothLevels(16, 1.25, 230, 16, 255,chroma=200,limiter=0,tvrange=true,dither=100,protect=6)
TemporalDeGrain()
RemoveSpotsMC()
TemporalSoften(4,4,8,15,2)
MergeLuma(DeHalo_Alpha(rx=2.5))
MergeChroma(awarpSharp2(depth=30))
GradFun2DBMod(thr=2.0,mask=false)
ConvertToRGB32(interlaced=false)
return last
The four VirtualDub filters loaded and run with the script were CamcorderColorDenoise 1.6MT, DeFlicker1.3b1, ColorMill, and Gradation Curves. The script and the filters were run using "full processing mode" and saved as "Step1" using lossless YV12 on output.

Step2.
The saved YV12 video fom Step1 video was opened using script #2 below:
Code:
AviSource("path\to\step1 video\HuffMT_01_Step1.avi")
# --- NOTE: input is YV12 from Step1 ------
QTGMC(InputType=1,preset="medium",sharpness=0.8)
AddGrainC(1.5,1.5)
AddBorders(40,70,40,70)
return last
I have attached "For_Avisynth.zip" which contains Avisynth plugins you might not have:
autolevels_0.6_20110109.dll, AvsRecursion.dll, awarpsharp.dll (for awarpsharp2), ContrastMask.avs, DeHalo_Alpha (as "DeHalo_alpha_MT2.avsi"), FFT3dGPU.dll, gradfun2db.dll, GradFun2DBmod.avsi,hqdn3d.dll, RemoveDirt_v09 (with RemoveDirt.dll and RemoveDirt.avs), RemoveSpotsMC.avs, rgTools-x86, TemporalDegrain.avs, and VariableBlur_070. These filters are core plugins and support files for TemporalDeGrain, ContrastMask, awarpsharp, etc.

I have also attached "For_VirtualDub.zip". It contains two VirtualDub plugins you might not have: CamcorderColorDenoise 1.6MT and DeFlicker1.3beta1.

Also attached is "hufftMT_01_Step1_VDub.vcf" with the settings I used for the 4 VirtualDub filters run with Step1.

You could try running both scripts together as one, but the processing will be too slow and could sometimes hang VirtuaLDub. I often use two separate steps for very slow processing.


Attached Files
File Type: zip For_Avisynth.zip (597.7 KB, 1 downloads)
File Type: zip For_VirtualDub.zip (47.8 KB, 1 downloads)
File Type: vcf hufftMT_01_Step1_VDub.vcf (3.8 KB, 1 downloads)
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  #46  
07-20-2015, 11:51 AM
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Big thanks... am in the work.

I have used most filters long since, but only seldom, because I primarily only Capture.
50 devices always in order hold a lot of time needs.

Yes. with 2 steps I know since RemoveNosieMC from heini011
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=110078

But here mostly I do not have so bad material like now with Woodstock.

The fact that with "QTGMC (InputType=1" I know of course... that "Mode=1" for progressive material is, in contrast to "Mode=0" this is for interlaced material.
One reads a lot..., however, everything can not always keep in the brain if the brain is small.
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  #47  
07-20-2015, 12:21 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Video that is in decent condition requires much less work. Usually the video I work with doesn't require this much effort or time. But sometimes the video is so bad, you have no choice if you want better results. In any case, it is very rare that I can use exactly the same filters for every video, especially with analog source because it differs so widely.
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  #48  
07-20-2015, 05:05 PM
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Yes, is quite clear, there is not only a Script for all springs.
Although I have VDub and also still VDubMod, I have landed in the postprocessing with Edius.
this has the advantage, I see the picture like it is given correctly also thus in the connected view device and not in the PC monitor which is good for Interlaced nothing.

First becomes gecapturt, in YUY2... then only picture] with Avisynth TGMC is prefiltered of the Stream [in the fashion MT a little bit.
This claps rather fast and I can go on working on another PC.


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File Type: jpg VirtualDub.jpg (75.6 KB, 4 downloads)
File Type: jpg ProCoder.jpg (75.4 KB, 3 downloads)
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  #49  
07-20-2015, 06:44 PM
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As well as it looks I must remove a lot of newer Plugins to load old Plugins.
TemporalDeGrain from old 0.9 packages. my version is from 2011.
ContrastMasc does not clap here, finds not all Plugins.
RemoveSpotsMC also does not clap.

In principle, no rhomb [#] of the line should be in front in it

Must load all Plugins in a separate folder and then appeal.


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File Type: jpg 1.Schritt.jpg (53.5 KB, 3 downloads)
File Type: png TemporalDegrain.avs - Editor_2015-07-21_01-15-16.png (51.6 KB, 2 downloads)
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  #50  
07-20-2015, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
Having said all of that, this only explains the problem with decoding the OP's file if he created it using a Huffyuv version older than CCE-SP patch 0.2.5..

I used AVISource("test pentrex 5 ATI MMC 7-10-15.avi",fourcc="HYMT") to force Huffyuv-MT to decode this HFYU file, since 2.2.0 lacks the "Ignore is-interlaced flag" setting and I don't feel like installing another version.
Thank you msgohan, for a while I was getting kind of lost in all this (but learning). The source VHS tape was was from a commercial video producer, made about early 1990's, may, or may not, have had some form of copy-guard?, and TBC was used (always). Earlier caps of Home-made tapes played fine on cap PC and others UNTILL I messed with/changed Huffyuv versions and settings on XP cap PC. Have v2.1.1/patch 0.2.2 (by Rainbow Software) and v2.1.1 mt patch 1.0.1 (by m_elijah)..both non 64bit, downloaded from this site. I think mt ver. was working good b4., but then I changed to non-mt version, (using ATI MMC/AIW 9600xt) and then set YUY2 comp to: "Predict gradient"/RGB comp set at "Convert to YUY2"/Field Treshold to "480" lines, and "Enable full size output buffer" box checked...BTW,After transfering file to other PC, got error "VLC cannot play HFYU format" when ...So I'm assuming the problem is with Cap PC (Something I did/changed probably)

Last edited by rocko; 07-20-2015 at 07:56 PM. Reason: add
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  #51  
07-21-2015, 02:25 AM
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Supplement
sanlyn... I must take for a ride the Plugins in a separate unterfolder and appeal separately, thus klappts.

However, I may not cut so much, see picture


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File Type: jpg VDub.jpg (46.1 KB, 5 downloads)
File Type: jpg Zuschnitt.jpg (58.9 KB, 4 downloads)
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  #52  
07-21-2015, 11:38 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockovids View Post
I think mt ver. was working good b4., but then I changed to non-mt version, (using ATI MMC/AIW 9600xt) and then set YUY2 comp to: "Predict gradient"/RGB comp set at "Convert to YUY2"/Field Treshold to "480" lines, and "Enable full size output buffer" box checked...BTW,After transfering file to other PC, got error "VLC cannot play HFYU format" when ...
Basically, all these troubles should be gone if you go back to the MT version. But the thing I bolded is what caused this issue. Setting Field Threshold to 480 is not only unnecessary, it's incorrect unless you're compressing standard content that is 480p or above. Setting this causes the incompatibility problem, and the compression ratio suffers because you're encoding interlaced material using progressive mode. When the output isn't garbled, the video is still lossless and 100% matches the original, but it's larger than it needs to be.

When you're ready to post another sample, I would like to see one direct from the VCR to the capture card, to eliminate more hardware variables.
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  #53  
07-21-2015, 11:48 AM
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I believe there come with the 1st step a few wrong "dll" to the use.
Processing claps with from 3.40 to 3.60 fps.

With my easy "first settlement" here also as the 1st step, it works in the MT fashion with from 19 to 20 fps.

On the left in the picture = TGMC [the first settlement]
On the right in the picture = 1st step/Avisynth with VDub
File as mpeg2.... folds so it with the high-level store in the net.

2. Film clip = in Edius the Croma something reduces in left picture half.
--------------------
Now this is only one example, as a rule it is encoded to AVC + AAC + in MBAFF.


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  #54  
07-21-2015, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Setting Field Threshold to 480 is not only unnecessary, it's incorrect unless you're compressing standard content that is 480p or above. Setting this causes the incompatibility problem, and the compression ratio suffers because you're encoding interlaced material using progressive mode.
Thank you!...which setting is best?...The recommended/must setting is 480 for NTSC users, as mentioned in the "Capture AVI using ATI AIW card" guide, but that may have applied to the earlier, single version of Huffyuv?
Quote:
When you're ready to post another sample, I would like to see one direct from the VCR to the capture card, to eliminate more hardware variables.
Yes, always (for now) VCR to cap card only samples, (and LOL!, that's what I was trying to do originally!)..but learning more stuff about all this due to problem!..Meanwhile, I recently posted a working,good file, just b-4 I monkeyed around with cap PC: http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/rockovids...tAVtoolbox.avi ....Can you tell what my settings were from this file?...

Last edited by rocko; 07-21-2015 at 09:16 PM. Reason: add
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  #55  
07-21-2015, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockovids View Post
..Meanwhile, I recently posted a working,good file, just b-4 I monkeyed around with cap PC: http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/rockovids...tAVtoolbox.avi ....Can you tell what my settings were from this file?...
Should we be able to? The default field threshold is usually 288. Did you try that recently?
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  #56  
07-21-2015, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockovids View Post
The recommended/must setting is 480 for NTSC users, as mentioned in the "Capture AVI using ATI AIW card" guide, but that may have applied to the earlier, single version of Huffyuv?
Nope. Sorry to say that lordsmurf simply got this one wrong. The setting is a > switch, not a >=, so a capture at 480 with the threshold set to 480 will be in progressive mode. The line about "Interlace requires more than 280 lines of resolution in the digital world, so PAL users can choose 288 or 576" is not accurate either: capture cards will discard one field when set to 288 height, the same as when capturing NTSC at 240.

The default value of 288 works perfectly fine for both NTSC and PAL so long as you stick to only standard capture resolutions: those with heights of 240, 288, 480, and 576 (and there hasn't been a reason to capture below 480 since the early 2000s). Even the author of the CCE-SP patch who criticized the fact that 288 was hardcoded and originated the Field Threshold option admitted this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bastel on Doom9.org
If you capture pal material and are capturing 288 lines, the video is progressive as you throw away a field. If you capture at 576 lines then you need interlaced encoding. So the field threshold of 288 works here.

If you are capturing 240 lines ntsc, then it's the same as with 288 for pal and if you do 480, this is equivalent to 576 pal.

The problem of the hardcoded 288 value is that if you have the funky idea of capturing, say... 288 lines with ntsc. There you need interlaced as you use data of 2 fields. It will look ugly, tho.
Just capture at 240/480 and 288/576 only and you shouldn't run into problems if you leave the threshold at 288.


If you work with progressive material (for example you ivtced some ntsc material or have a progressive camera), and are sure that even at 480/576 lines your video is progressive, then you can set the threshold to that value to gain better compression.
His suggestion of capturing NTSC with 288 lines isn't even possible with any capture card I'm aware of. It's a ridiculous idea that no one would ever seriously do. The only real value of giving us the option is that it allows us to alter the number accordingly if we're doing a capture at EDTV or HDTV resolutions.

Last edited by msgohan; 07-21-2015 at 10:22 PM.
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  #57  
07-22-2015, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Should we be able to?
(sanlyn) I wasn't sure if that was even possible, but nevermind, I'll concentrate on fixing the present problem and sticking with those settings that work.
Quote:
The default field threshold is usually 288. Did you try that recently?
.(sanlyn)Thanks, will try that soon.

Last edited by rocko; 07-22-2015 at 05:25 AM. Reason: add
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  #58  
07-22-2015, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
The default value of 288 works perfectly fine for both NTSC and PAL so long as you stick to only standard capture resolutions
(msgohan)Thanks, Lots of info to digest, both here, and also reviewed the Doom9 posts..will dig back into cap PC and settings soon.

Last edited by rocko; 07-22-2015 at 05:29 AM. Reason: add
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  #59  
07-22-2015, 05:41 AM
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rockovids
Read sometimes the 2nd contribution

Since you're capturing NTSC you should use field treshold of 240 lines, 288 is for PAL.

http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/2...-about-huffyuv
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  #60  
07-22-2015, 06:42 AM
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(Hee-Hee!) Thanks Goldwing ,This is the best smile icon that I could find for feeling like a ping-pong ball right now, but I will take what everyone says, and try it out, One thing for sure, I will take notes this time, about the final settings that do work on my system!... I do have the system restore option from 2012,but that is a last resort. Only about 5 years experience with computers, but I have learned from this site, that every situation is different, with VHS capture/software/hardware..for a while I was/am guilty of easy monkey-see,monkey-do!

Last edited by rocko; 07-22-2015 at 07:21 AM. Reason: add
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