Need assistance with Procoder (newbie) MPEG encoder

[unclescoob]

LordSmurf,

I recently obtained Procoder 3 and my workflow consists of the following:

1. Capture my .vob in VirtualdubMpeg and clean with Neatvideo.

2. Release the AVI.

3. Capture the AVI with Procoder 3 and try to encode it to a VOB file for DVD authoring.

Here's how I do it: I set my target at 9800 kb at CQ. Master Quality. The output comes out decent looking...but for a $400.00 encoder I still see some blocks in dark areas! I know for a fact there's something I'm doing wrong. My source is NTSC animation from the 80's.

Ironically, Windows DVD Maker ( video enthusiasts swear against 'all-in-one' software) makes my final output identical to my original, cleaned-up avi output. So I'm really trying to do this the "right" way (encoding, then authoring) but it seems like Windows DVD Maker is actually doing a better job than Procoder. A 'logical' response to this would be "then stick to Windows DVD Maker". However, after doing MUCH and MUCH reading on these threads regarding appropriate workflow...I feel like I'm doing something wrong.

So in essence I have two questions:

1. With the set target in Procoder, why is my output looking so crappy? What am I doing wrong/missing?

2. Is it so bad to burn with a software that's actually making my video look good? And I mean, there's no out of sync with sound, video, etc. But I really want to learn how to encode this cartoon correctly.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

1. Capture my .vob in VirtualdubMpeg and clean with Neatvideo.

Tweak NeatVideo, don't use default settings. Too aggressive.

Quote:

2. Release the AVI.

You means "Save as AVI", right?

Quote:

3. Capture the AVI with Procoder 3 and try to encode it to a VOB file for DVD authoring.

There should be no capturing. Only opening of the AVI files. Hopefully you just have the wrong terms again.

Quote:

Here's how I do it: I set my target at 9800 kb at CQ. Master Quality. The output comes out decent looking...but for a $400.00 encoder I still see some blocks in dark areas! I know for a fact there's something I'm doing wrong. My source is NTSC animation from the 80's.

Blocking in dark areas is a defect of MPEG encoding (for DVD-Video) in general. That's one reason MPEG has been superseded by H.264, which has less issues because of the non-8x8 structure options. Another issue is that Procoder is somewhat inferior to MainConcept, for MPEG-2 encoding.

Quote:

Ironically, Windows DVD Maker ( video enthusiasts swear against 'all-in-one' software) makes my final output identical to my original, cleaned-up avi output. So I'm really trying to do this the "right" way (encoding, then authoring) but it seems like Windows DVD Maker is actually doing a better job than Procoder. A 'logical' response to this would be "then stick to Windows DVD Maker". However, after doing MUCH and MUCH reading on these threads regarding appropriate workflow...I feel like I'm doing something wrong.

If that's the case, then you're just missing something. Without seeing all the encoding settings, I can't even guess at what that might be. I'd need to see screenshots of every options window, every tab. There's no way Windows lousy included freebie toy tool should be able to outperform professional software unless something's just being done wrong. And that's quite possible.

Quote:

2. Is it so bad to burn

I don't think you mean burn. Burn in ImgBurn, nothing else. I believe you were going for "encode" or maybe even "author", but I'm not exactly sure what you mean here.

[unclescoob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Tweak NeatVideo, don't use default settings. Too aggressive.
You means "Save as AVI", right?

Yes, I mean "save as AVI", sorry about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I'd need to see screenshots of every options window, every tab.

I'll get them for you and post them here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

There's no way Windows lousy included freebie toy tool should be able to outperform professional software. unless something's just being done wrong. And that's quite possible.

I may be doing something wrong with procoder, but that "toy tool" is sure winning the race right now. Believe it. The video burned on my dvd with Windows is IDENTICAL to my source. No blocks, no pixels, no audio/video sync. Nothing. And believe me, I've tested, re-tested, re-tested and re-tested. Windows stays consistent. I almost feel guilty

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I don't think you mean burn. Burn in ImgBurn, nothing else. I believe you were going for "encode" or maybe even "author", but I'm not exactly sure what you mean here.

Windows is encoding AND burning it on DVD.

[lordsmurf]

I fixed your quotes for you.

I would never burn in authoring software. Rarely is it burning properly to DVD-Video specs, which leads to failed discs.
Author to a folder on the hard drive. Then burn with ImgBurn.

[unclescoob]

Not to be a pain NOR sarcastic (I really mean it). And, after reading this you may just want to scream from your end ''THEN DO IT YOUR WAY AND STOP ASKING QUESTONS!!" but...

Windows DVD maker is not giving me ANY problems at all! My video looks perfect!

Procoder doesn't make my video look bad per se, but I see blocks in dark areas, even at 9800kbps CQ in Master Quality with the highest Quantization set. Windows DVD? No blocks in dark areas. At all.

So what am I (I almost feel like laughing at this point, considering)..."doing wrong"??

[lordsmurf]

I bet I can find problems.

But I'd have to see the authored DVD, or an ISO of it.

Note that one of the benefits of being a Premium Member on this site is you can request temporary FTP access from user "admin" to upload files. It's a perk created for this exact reason. Never more than 1 DVD worth (4.5GB max), of course -- server hard drives (10k RAID10 SAS) are not near-infinite in space like home/office drives (7.2k IDE, SATA). As policy, we don't download from slow file sharing services (Megaupload, Rapidshare, etc), though an exception is made for Dropbox (2GB max free space) because it's easy and fast. Something to think about.

[unclescoob]

I honestly can't do the Premium Membership now, so I'll just take what I can get. But I have no problems giving some donations in the future, as this is a VERY good site with people that actually know what they're doing (unlike videohelp.com, which consists of a bunch of arrogant, purist morons who chastise you instead of helping you).

But please, at least tell me this much: With the settings I just mentioned above, which is 9800kbps [highest allowed by procoder..most likely an unecessary abount of bitrate, but just for the sake of testing the capacity] and CQ in Master Quality with the highest Quantization (1.0). This is an avi (.vob source from a retail DVD which I cleaned up in virtualdub). am I at least on the right path? somewhat??

[lordsmurf]

It really depends on the other settings. That is the best allowable bitrate, yes. But bitrate alone doesn't make quality. You can always author a "test DVD" that fits on Dropbox for just a few hundred megs. Then as time allows, it's something I can look at and analyze quality on. I'd be interested in seeing comparative clips from both methods.

Note 1: The Premium Membership is a one-time payment of $20, for a three-year membership. It's not a monthly fee.
Note 2: VH has some good people, but a lot of them don't seem to be active right now. Definitely some fight pickers lately.