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12-02-2009, 02:34 PM
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A few questions for you if you don't mind. From reading in the forums your knowledge is better than everyone else.

What is the best way to create SVHS to DVD? Picture quality is the most important.

Here are my thoughts…..

I just tried a capture card and it took way too long to record and than burn. The quality is not even close to SVHS direct to the DVD recorder.

The plus using the PC is that you can restore the sound and change some of the picture settings Brightness/Contrast ect. Plus you can edit up the video….The - is the time it takes and the picture looks computerized

My goal is to create the DVD and not have to go back and re do it.

My thinking is this:

I need like a sound amp to play with the sound out of the SVHS player which than gets sent to the DVD recorder. Any advise?

Is there a device on the market that lets you edit the picture before it gets to the DVD recorder..Brightness/Cropping and things like that….

What are the better DVD recorders on the Market?

What is the best way to get a good picture that looks maybe better than the actual playing from an SVHS player?
"Best" really depends on end goals, the pre-SVHS source (was S-VHS upscaled compared against recorded source?), other flaws in the video (chroma noise?), etc.

Your possible workflows range from 352x480 to 720x480, capture card withpost- processing to direct DVD recorder captures, etc. There are really a LOT of options before you arrive at the best output for the final product. Much of it relies on your source, to be completely honest.

The AVT-8710 has a "brightness" control built-in, but it's not the best option. Using a high-end proc amp with mulitple IRE and luma controls is what you'd need (that's what I use). You always want to stick to s-video connections, and that's what drives up component costs. I have Elite Video BVP-4 Plus units, although I've used Studio1 and SignVideo proc amps too. Vidicraft is nice, but lower end than I prefer, composite connections only.

If you have issues with the capture card > encode > author > burn looking worse than a DVD recorder, it's almost always related to the hardware, software and user settings being implemented. Theoretically a capture card will always be superior to a DVD recorder (some scenarios excluded, such as excessive chroma noise input -- but even then you must be using a special DVD recorder to remove chroma noise, LSI Logic based gear!)

Audio boards (mixers, EQ boards) are very good to have, yes. I run all audio through a 4-EQ mixer first, a pre-processing on the audio. It's post processed in any number of audio programs, as digital filtering is superior to analog pass filtering. I use a lot of custom settings too, I don't just open software and pick a pre-made option.

There are really not any good DVD recorders left on the market. You can find a full overview here http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-recorders.htm -- it includes historical data, with information on the best now-discontinued DVD recorders.

Assuming your source is degraded, "best" is relative to fixing the flaws, and the methods used to fix those flaws. Ideally you want to make choices that don't ADD problems (or at least be able to counter-act new problems introduced during the workflow).

Since no two projects are ever the same -- the personal hell for any video editor -- it's hard to dole out generic advice. It's much better to see actual sample clips and screen caps, and give feedback on a case-by-case basis.

Did that answer you at least partially?

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12-02-2009, 08:37 PM
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Thanks for the advise:

It seems like the older DVD recorders will work better. I looked up some of the titles listed on the review page. Which of the older DVD's would work best for SVHS or Betamax to DVD. Ones with the filters for VHS.

Also if possible do any of these DVD recorders have something were you can edit out 10 to 30 seconds every once in a while. Like you record something that you don't want and can pull it out.

On the Audio Amps, cause I have been out of Audio for a while, what I am looking for is like a mixer to run in to the DVD player. Where do u get those, most of the old audio shops are out of business, and I haven't seen that kind of stuff in a while.

The Prog amp, what is that, is it a Picture Filter...

I have a few videotapes from the early 90ties, back in those days you would get interference with in the broadcast. It seems to me, using the SVHS with a TBC makes the picture noise worse. Now if I record from the crappy VCR to the SVHS the picture seems to be better when I re-play it back using the TBC. The only problem is it is a 2nd generation tape.

Last question is this:
It seems to me that the analog video from the late 80ties to about 1999 has a better quality picture than the stuff from the early 2002 to 2006 time frame when the picture to the VHS recorder was pretty much a digital picture from the Cable Company. What is the reason for that?

I always tried to use higher end tapes and basically recorded everything in LP, however still have a few of the cheap tapes which were recorded in super long mode.

I do know this all of my Betamax stuff has a better picture than any of my VHS stuff.
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12-03-2009, 10:05 PM
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I want to leave a rather detailed reply to this, so it'll be a few more days.

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12-05-2009, 02:49 AM
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I watched a TV show on World War II, they tooks clips and made them in to HD.

What can be done with Analog VHS?
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12-05-2009, 12:56 PM
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Ok got the sound board and remixing figured out.

Went to the store looking in to soundboards, they run about $1000. As I played with the high-end toy, I thought hey I have all these controls and more on my PC. So to remix the sound, it is simple.

You do it live, you run the sound in to the PC, mix it, than out to the DVD recorder.

Now I have to figure a way to do the same thing with Video/Picture than I am set. I want to filter the picture live so I can see it, send it out, and record what I am seeing.

The goal is to have the DVD recorder as the recording source. Don't want to compress or do big computer files that takes days to record than put on DVD.
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12-06-2009, 04:06 PM
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Best DVD recorder?

The issue with S-VHS (and VHS, and Betamax and 8mm) is chroma noise. The VHS formats are the worst of them. This color noise presents itself as flecks of red, blue and sometimes green splotches on screen. It's most easily seen in dark areas. There are some samples here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...flaws-565.html

The best way to remove these errors are in hardware, specifically DVD recorders using the LSI Logic chipset. Of all the available recorders, you want one of the JVC lines produced in 2004-2006. Nothing newer!!! JVC machines start ing 2006-2007 were outsourced LG machines, using an inferior chipset that DID NOT remove the chroma noise.

The good JVC models include:
The ones with links can still be bought easily online.

The "DR" are the consumer/prosumer series models (made for serious hobbyists), and the "SR" are the professional series lines. Note that sometimes "S" and "US" may be omitted from model numbers. That's the store, in most cases. The "S" and "US" means it's a NTSC USA model, and some USA stores leave that off.

A lot of the newer models with 70s/80s/90s in the name are crap. Some models also use the 100/150 model designations in the latest models, which are also crap. These are cheapo machines, quality is dismal, no filtering at all.

The downside to these DVD recorders is sometimes the black level can be slightly altered. The fix for this is to pre-adjust the signal with a proc amp, or to post-process the recording in something like VirtualDub, with a slight boost to it's value or back levels. Much of this depends on the source itself, as IRE values tend to be all over the place.

DVD recorder editing?

DVD recorders use a very basic editing method, so removing 10 or 30 seconds is generally not possible, at least not with any kind of frame-precise accuracy. You really need to think of a DVD recorder as making a advanced version of a VHS tape, and nothing more. For advanced editing, menus, etc -- you need to dump the video to a computer, and proceed from there. Some guides on editing from a DVD source are at http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...dit-encode.htm

Proc amp?

A proc amp adjust the color quality of video. Sometimes this is wrongly referred to as saturation, brightness and contrast, but it's actually the ability to edit IRE (black level), luma and chroma.

S-VHS quality worse?

If you have trouble with a crappy tape in an S-VHS deck, then odd are some things are set wrong. You should give a look at http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...k-hardware.htm

80s/90s vs 200 signals...

In the 80s and 90s, everything was sent purely analog. In the 2000s, most broadcasting switched to all-digital production, carriage, and transmissions. So instead of analog noise, you ended up with digital noise in the signal. Because so many companies wanted to offer more channels without paying for better transmission equipment, they compressed signals more than suggested. The result was blocks and other noise. DirecTV was notoriously bad for this for years, but even cable companies do it now.


Technically, Betamax does NOT have a better image quality than VHS. Much of this is just old myth, and perceptions by the viewer. Under some circumstance, a lower-end VHS VCR will definitely look worse than the Betamax counterpart. However, a good VCR proves that one false really quickly.

WWII film restoration?

The trick with this is the WWII was film. You can restore film easier because their is a lot of clarity to be had. VHS does not. There's no way to make VHS high definition. There is more data on that WWII film strip than a consumer VHS tape.

Audio boards...

A good audio board cannot be re-created with a computer card. The options in a computer cards are really very rudimentary and crude compared to a $50-100 board. The computer cards almost always lack EQ, too.

I was in Best Buy just a few days ago, and looked at some boards because of your question. Note that I'm near one fo the "premiere" stores that has a very large audio/instrument room. The local store has a Behringer XENYX for $60. The same board is available from Amazon for $60 with free shipping. I would buy this one. It has 3 EQ's and gain control. Mackie Tapco boards are good too, I use one of those. It's helpful on the cheap, good pre-processing of the audio before more advanced work is done in SoundForge and/or Audacity (and/or Goldwave, DiamondCut).

Big files and restoring...

For major restore work, there's no way to avoid big files and long encoding times on a computer. You're limited with what can be done purely in hardware. A lot can be done, but not all errors can be addresses, and not all fixes can be as advanced as the software work. (Inversely a few errors, like chroma noise in video, is best addressed in hardware!)

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