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11-12-2020, 12:27 AM
WaxEgger WaxEgger is offline
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Has anyone used the Roland Edirol VMC-1 as a TBC?

If so, what did you think of it's performance? What are the pros and cons?
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  #2  
11-12-2020, 12:53 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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I have, I sold it few years ago and recaptured all the tapes I did with it, The device itself is fine, DV capture is not ideal for analog, The VMC-1 has a frame synchronizer, so no dropped frames, no audio drift, image is stable but the quality is not there.
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  #3  
11-12-2020, 12:56 AM
WaxEgger WaxEgger is offline
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So your biggest issue with it was that since it is DV you are automatically encoded to MPEG?

But besides that, the TBC functioned perfectly?
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  #4  
11-12-2020, 07:26 AM
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This was a review from 15 years ago:
Quote:
I have just downloaded the DVI test files [with TBC on and off] I have to say there was very little difference between the two. Image edges were sharper but the TBC missed loads of flickers and glitches, and those are the artifacts that are most important to get rid of.
It's another device made for non-consumer sources, TBC is weak based on past posts.

I vaguely remember trying this unit out 10 years ago, after hunting it for years, and quickly sold it back off for what I paid for it.

It was often compared to the ADVC-300 "TBC" (which is laughably so weak as to do near-nothing), and often found to be comparable line-wise. But again, it was really source dependent.

It's been commmented on many times at this sites, VH, and some others, over the past 20 years. Never great, never recommended.

From latreche34 here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
Keep in mind that the best TBC is the one right inside your VCR, I don't see a lot of difference between VMC-1 and ADVC-300 TBC performance, The screen shots show that TBC is indeed working on the ADVC-300 but not as good as VMC-1 and that's one of the raisons why I went for the Roland VMC-1 few years back.
Our own msgohan wrote this 5 years ago: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...e2#post2349810
Specifically read this:
Quote:
Both units contain the MN673744 chip, so I guess Canopus failed to use it appropriately. I don't buy the German reviewer's explanation that the chip was secretly found to be faulty and possibly fixed, unless there are complaints about their DVD recorders from the same time period. [EDIT: Reading further into his review, I see he actually mentions the VMC-1 and says it suffers from "similar symptoms." Confusing.]
The "faulty" part was indeed Canopus marketing BS of yore (and Canopus of that era has been defunct for over a decade, the brand is owned by Grass Valley now), but both units were often compared.

NOTE: Just be careful reading that whole VH thread. This quote, for example, was nonsense.
Quote:
At the German doom9 forum we have discussed and actually tested the whole TBC topic to death. The essence is, Panasonic DMR-ES and DMR-EH DVD/HDD recorders have excellent jitter stabilizing (TBC) capabilities – actually completely unmatched by all "real" standalone TBC boxes we tested, which are, in my opinion, overrated obsolete pieces of hardware from the 90's anyway
Line TBC is not framesync TBC.

The ES10/15 has strong line abilities, but also crippled by Macrovision detection (which of course picks up both the artificial anti-copy and natural errors). I like how he called it "(TBC) capabilities" which is 2000s way of stating "NOT ACTUALLY A TBC".

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  #5  
11-12-2020, 08:31 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
This was a review from 15 years ago:
To be fair the samples there were only comparing it to a AVDC-300 (and with tbc off), not with a Datavideo or Cypress or other known decent device so it's hard to judge by that. Maybe other TBCs would react bad to the source video as well. The clips don't seem to be aviailable anymore, the screenshots would indicate that it does some horizontal jitter correction at least when comparing the TBC on to the TBC off and AVDC one. I suppose it may not have been designed to be able to dodge macrovision though.
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  #6  
11-12-2020, 12:26 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxEgger View Post
So your biggest issue with it was that since it is DV you are automatically encoded to MPEG?

But besides that, the TBC functioned perfectly?
If you mean to be used as a stand alone TBC then yes you can, it has a separate ADC for TBC and proc amp, from there as you can see in the attached diagram on the back of the unit it provides an analog output before encoding to DV, Though never tried it as such, but I can guarantee you that it will give you a stable picture and you don't loose audio sync, And in case you're wondering if it removes Microvision, it does not, I've tried it. The 3D Y/C filter works on NTSC only I believe.


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  #7  
11-12-2020, 12:42 PM
WaxEgger WaxEgger is offline
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Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
If you mean to be used as a stand alone TBC then yes you can, it has a separate ADC for TBC and proc amp, from there as you can see in the attached diagram on the back of the unit it provides an analog output before encoding to DV, Though never tried it as such, but I can guarantee you that it will give you a stable picture and you don't loose audio sync, And in case you're wondering if it removes Microvision, it does not, I've tried it. The 3D Y/C filter works on NTSC only I believe.
That's funny that you shared that image because it's the exact unit I just purchased. Thanks for your help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
This was a review from 15 years ago:
It was often compared to the ADVC-300 "TBC" (which is laughably so weak as to do near-nothing), and often found to be comparable line-wise. But again, it was really source dependent.

It's been commmented on many times at this sites, VH, and some others, over the past 20 years. Never great, never recommended.
I think it was marketed in the same vein as the ADVC-300, but more often contrasted rather than compared by users. It seems like people were under the impression that the ADVC-300 functions more like a line TBC. The general consensus from the super limited amount of info there is online about the Edirol is that it even though it supposedly shares the same chip, it utilizes it in a different way that allows to to function properly as a frame sync TBC.

I've been using this site and VH for 6 months or so, and have found a handful of users who have sworn by the Edirol, suggested that it never drops a frame, suggested that it is the most stable tbc for a stable output, and at the very least does a great job of correcting time bases. So to say no one has commented on it being great or recommending it is untrue.
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  #8  
11-12-2020, 03:08 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Since you have bought it already just try it and post samples, Worst comes to worst you can always sell it, it is a one of those devices that everyone is looking for regardless what it does or it doesn't, I sold mine in snap.

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Originally Posted by WaxEgger View Post
That's funny that you shared that image because it's the exact unit I just purchased. Thanks for your help!
Oh wow you paid a hefty price for that one if that's the listing, I sold mine for like $350 and still made profit, Should have kept it and sold it now.
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  #9  
11-12-2020, 04:25 PM
WaxEgger WaxEgger is offline
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Oh wow you paid a hefty price for that one if that's the listing, I sold mine for like $350 and still made profit, Should have kept it and sold it now.
Yes, I did, but I made a deal with the seller and got a bit better of a price than what's listed. I will keep everyone updated as I test the unit out. TBCs are way too expensive, and I'm sure the price is only bound to keep inflating.
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  #10  
11-12-2020, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by WaxEgger View Post
I will keep everyone updated as I test the unit out.

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  #11  
04-06-2022, 08:08 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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It has been almost two years, any tests or feedback?
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