Please review my video capture setup!

[sanlyn]

I can take a longer look at your new samples tomorrow, it's been very long and hectic today. If you're wondering why your huffyuv files are so large, compared to how small they were earlier, it's because your new samples aren't huffyuv. They've been converted to uncompressed RGB. They are 4 times the file size they would be if they had remained losslessly compressed Huffyuv YUY2:

                        Uncompressed  Lossless
File                        RGB         YUY2
----                    ------------  --------
TBC test TBC OFF.avi       99.0 MB     25.4 MB
TBC test TBC ON v2.avi     97.8 MB     24.7 MB

Your TBC "On" position is still contracting video from the bright side inward toward the middle left of histograms. Which version between on and off is "correct" is up for debate. But even with levels correction the "off" position still makes highlights and midtones look washed out. TBC "On" looks more natural and is less noisy.

Avisynth is downloaded from its home site at SourgeForge, but now that all of its sites have been "corrected" and "updated", it just looks confusing. Programmers refer to this confusion as "improvements" (LOL!). The latest version is a Beta dated May 2016, but the more stable, faster-running, and popular version is Avisynth Rev-2 v2.6o dated a year earlier in May/2015. The download link for the Avisynth_260.exe installer for May/2015 is https://sourceforge.net/projects/avi...0.exe/download.

People are surprised that the entire install is less than 7MB, but who cares? When you run the installer the program asks where you want Avisynth installed. The default program folder will be "Program Files" in 32-bit systems, or in "Program Files(x86)" in 64-bit systems. Use 32-bit Avisynth and 32-bit filters if you ever add any (the program already has several dozen built-in functions anyway). 64-bit has no speed advantage and offers very few 64-bit filters or enhancements.

There is a small install window of extra features. The only extra box you need to check "on" is associating .avs scripts with Windows Notepad, which will come in handy. Don't associate .avs files with media players or with Virtualdub. If you maintain a file associations with .avs and Notepad, then double-clicking an .avs file will automatically open it in Notepad for editing. For running scripts, you can always open .avs files directly in VirtualDub.

You can also change the default install folder. My Avisynth is installed in "D:\Avisynth" so that I won't lose all my plugins and other additions if I lose my operating system drive. Or you can always just take the default folder.

Avisynth installs its own online help. It can be accessed by going into the Windows "All Programs" or "Programs" listing in the Start menu, and look for the Avisynth program group. Expand the group, and inside you'll see "Avisynth Documentation", which runs in your web browser. Most users just make a new desktop shortcut pointing to that program item (by copying the program item itself to your desktop). A very similar but more elaborate update is on the 'net at http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Main_Page. Its "getting Started" page will have an image that shows you the latest version of Avisynth being run, which means they might show you the v2.6 2016 version. Never fear. If you have May/2016 installed instead of May/2015, you'll just have slightly slower running (let us know if you could possibly tell the difference without actually measuring it with a specialty utility called AVS Meter). If you've followed this post you downloaded and installed the May/2015 version. If you want a later one you just download and install it over the old one. But the later 2016 version is still a bit buggy in some respects and in some machines.

The Getting Started help also says that you can run .avs trial scripts in media players. You can, but whether it works depends on what versions of certain Microsoft VC++ runtime files and which media player update you have installed, so don't trust it. Use VirtualDub to run .avs scripts. You'll note that there is no "Avisynth.exe" program item, because Avisynth doesn't have an interface. It's a scripted application, so all you need to create and run even a simple or complicated script is Notepad + Virtualdub. Avisynth is versatile; it can be used on a very simple or very sophisticated level depending on how far you want to take it. For the time being, keep it simple.

[willow5]

Thanks Sanlyn, I appreciate all your advice. I will investigate Avisynth further between now and your next post I can't believe we are on page 9 already-but I have learnt so much since my first post and bought some essential equipment along the way! Should I start a new thread?

Also I am hoping that TBC ON is all ok now but will await your analysis, should I be too concerned about what the analysis is for TBC OFF if I don't intend on using it switched off for captures? am not sure why the clips are so large as I always check compression before I capture and it all shows that HuffYUV is enabled, I am not sure how to confirm this is really on before I commit to a capture?

[sanlyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow5

I can't believe we are on page 9 already-but I have learnt so much since my first post and bought some essential equipment along the way! Should I start a new thread?

If you start a new capture project or tape, and come up with new questions or concerns, start a new thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow5

Also I am hoping that TBC ON is all ok now but will await your analysis, should I be too concerned about what the analysis is for TBC OFF if I don't intend on using it switched off for captures?

You have more noise with TBC OFF, and you will need different levels settings than with TBC ON. This particular sample has bad and annoying top border line twitter with the TBC OFF (see comparison sample attached). The attached side-by-side sample shows that by using different levels for TBC OFF -vs- TBC ON, you achieved virtually identical histograms for both captures. In the sample, TBC OFF is the left half of of the frame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow5

I am not sure why the clips are so large as I always check compression before I capture and it all shows that HuffYUV is enabled, I am not sure how to confirm this is really on before I commit to a capture?

You might have captured in huffyuv/YUY2, but you saved your sample in "fuill processing mode" in VirtualDub without changing the color depth and compression settings. By default, full processing mode saves video as uncompressed RGB unless you specify otherwise.

In capture mode, the compressor menu is in "Video" -> "Compression...".
The colorspace setting is in "Video" -> "set custom format...."

The Avisynth script I used with built-in commands to create the AVI for the attached sample:

vid1=AviSource("E:\forum\faq\willow5\H\TBC test TBC OFF.avi"). \
    ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true).Histogram("Levels")

vid2=AviSource("E:\forum\faq\willow5\H\TBC test TBC ON v2.avi"). \
    ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true).Histogram("Levels")

StackHorizontal(vid1,vid2).KillAudio
return last

[willow5]

Thanks Sanlyn, I am currently out so cannot fully digest the information. In your opinion, us TBC ON the best option ? Will it yield me results that are ok for capture and post processing? Will reply in full later

[sanlyn]

Set the line-TBC = ON.

[willow5]

Thanks for that,I know there are so many variables here but is my line TBC comparable to your line TBC function or is it wildly out? I guess I am looking for a benchmark to use when comparing my line TBC (and wider VCR) quality. Is the VCR and TBC up to scratch?

[sanlyn]

The TBC on my Panasonic AG-1980 and on my former JVC 7600's did not alter the contrast or gamma when turned on or off. Apparently your player has some sort of gain limiter that works at the same time as the tbc, or else it's simply a defect. Line-level TBC's don't ordinarily control contrast and gamma, they just control scanline timing and often have some level of noise reduction. According to your latest samples, whatever was distorting parts of the picture has been tamed. Different tape sources will behave differently, so if you see those distortions occur again you can bet it's not the TBC itself but some other power function in your VCR.

[willow5]

OK, I think I have found the culprit in the VCR chroma board and gone ahead and replaced it. Please could you re-review these clips (they look much better colour wise on the eye) and let me know your professional opinion ? Same routine - this one is TBC OFF

[willow5]

And this is TBC ON - enjoy Please note that I did not change any settings in the Proc Amp apart from actually reduce the contrast to 118

[sanlyn]

They look OK to me, although TBC OFF as previously noted has more noise and some bad twitter along the top border.

[willow5]

Hi Sanlyn, newsflash: I think I have identified a big issue between Vdub and the ATI card....more to follow soon!

There is an issue when first opening VDub in NTSC mode then switching to PAL_I

[willow5]

Please can you merge this into the previous post:

There is an issue between the ATI 9600, VDub v1.9.11 and the combination of opening VDub in NTSC mode. If the filter is subsequently switched to PAL_I, the picture looks ok but has patterning and rich colours making it look washed out with bright colours (I think this is also the root cause of the interference with TBC ON/OFF as I have been uploading recently). If Vdub is subsequently closed and restarted in PAL_I mode, the patterning disappears and a fairly respectable picture is available (as much as VHS can be). I discovered this by accident, is it a known issue?

I will upload a clip shortly of this discovery for your analysis and expert opinion.

Assuming the above is correct, what do you think could cause this ?

[willow5]

Sanlyn, I am really hoping that this is the last TBC ON and OFF test with this configuration based on the issue I found with VDub and ATI 9600. I would really appreciate it if you could kindly cast your analysis over these (hopefully) last 2 clips that I will upload on this matter....this one is TBC OFF

[willow5]

And finally this is TBC ON

[sanlyn]

Latest capture looks good.

PAL_I is the PAL standard for the UK and Ireland. The source input properties are listed in the 3rd section of the latest settings guide, under "Video".. -> "Capture filters..", shown in the post at http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post45238, as you've probably seen.

[willow5]

Thanks Sanlyn, is there any chance of running another quick histogram analysis on the TBC ON and OFF values to confirm empirically if this has changed materially?

Also, I have downloaded AviSynth but when trying to run the script you provided a few posts ago, I keep getting an error (despite changing the path to my drive). I go to 'file' then 'run script' in VDub but keep getting this error:

Error during script execution at line 1, column 10: Variable 'AviSource' not found
AviSource<!>("PATH")

Also thanks for the link to 'Capture filters' but I think the problem is deeper than selecting PAL_I as when switching from NTSC (default setting when opening VDub) then changing to PAL_I it causes patterning to appear on the video. The only way of stopping this from happening is to close down VDub then re-open with PAL_I as the new setting based on previous values prior to closing VDub....hope that makes sense?

[sanlyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow5

I have downloaded AviSynth but when trying to run the script you provided a few posts ago, I keep getting an error (despite changing the path to my drive). I go to 'file' then 'run script' in VDub but keep getting this error:

Error during script execution at line 1, column 10: Variable 'AviSource' not found
AviSource<!>("PATH")

You run Avisynth .avs scripts using "File.." -> "Open video file...", then locate the .avs file. VirtualDub sees AVisynth scripts as video files, because in fact the results of the script are "delivered" to VirtualDub as video. The run script item is for VirtualDub batch scripts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow5

Also thanks for the link to 'Capture filters' but I think the problem is deeper than selecting PAL_I as when switching from NTSC (default setting when opening VDub) then changing to PAL_I it causes patterning to appear on the video. The only way of stopping this from happening is to close down VDub then re-open with PAL_I as the new setting based on previous values prior to closing VDub....hope that makes sense?

If you close VirtualDub capture when "PAL_I" is selected, then the app should re-open to that same value. Maybe it's just a system quirk.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

Panasonic AG-1980
alter the contrast or gamma when turned on or off.

This is classic bad caps.

Note: OFF may be correct, ON correct.
But the inverse can also be true: ON correct, OFF not.

The sample of the guy standing in front of the monitors is terrible either way. One is hot, one is muddy and lossy. Neither is great. Color dynamic range is missing either way. The source itself may be at fault. And not just the physical tape, but any tape recorded by the source deck. This is more common with nth gen, but can happen on 1st with a crummy recorder.

[sanlyn]

The test samples and the image have transmogrified so many times over the past several days, I'd guess that the player will soon develop new problems. TBC board, power, chroma board, worked on so far....I would be looking for a shop rebuild or another player to test by now. The test with the guy in front of the TV consoles still has washed-out whites, but is useful for blacks, grays, and skin tons, and whether or not the tbc is actually doing anything (it appears to be working when ON). I say there's a problem with brights whether the tbc is on or not, and something other than this one test shot should be sampled. But I'm of the stronger opinion that users shouldn't feel they have to be married to a particular VCR. I've seen JVC/Philips with the same brightness problem and once owned one myself.

[lordsmurf]

Good point: Units vary.