Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Project Planning, Workflows

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
12-18-2016, 05:22 PM
mparade mparade is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you very much sanlyn, but I do not understand you clearly.

What I have done so far: I bought a PC without an OS which has an integrated graphics card. I mounted the AIW card into the PCI Express slot. Then I turned on the PC. That time there was not any signal on either the VGA nor the DVI output. Then, I unmounted the AIW from the slot. Now there was signal on the VGA output. I installed Windows XP 32 bit. Then I mounted back the AIW. Now, again, there is no output at all on any of the outputs. I will contact my IT friend tomorrow, because I do not understand this behaviour (I haven't met this so far). Maybe a BIOS problem.
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #22  
12-18-2016, 07:08 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
The motherboard with your PC apparently doesn't perform an auto changeover from integrated graphics to a newly installed PCIe card. It had to be done in BIOS before you installed XP. The other solution would be to install XP using the integrated graphics card, then undergo the process I outlined above. If that procedure is confusing, it's best to have someone at hand who can help.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
12-18-2016, 07:12 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,355
Thanked 2,431 Times in 2,066 Posts
Sometimes motherboards just refuse to cooperate with ATI AIW cards. You have to also pay attention to the "lanes" for PCIe, as you did with 2x/4/8x for AGP. Not all slots are compatible.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #24  
12-20-2016, 04:06 PM
mparade mparade is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hello,

I have moved forward a bit and could install the following softwares:

- XP 32 bit;
- Vdub 1.9.11 + filters;
- Huffyuv;
- ATI Catalyst software CD which came with my X800 GT card;
- drivers for the integrated audio device and the motherboard itself;
- MS .Net Framework 2.0;
- Directx 9.0c (it was a self-extractor, the installer told it had found a newer one on my machine and did not want to be installed);

Did I miss something to install?

Unfortunately, Virtualdub 1.9.11 seems to be very unstable in capture mode at least using my ATI card. It is being completely frozen after getting into capture mode and changing the custom format to 720x576 from 720x240 which is given by default. Note: Meanwhile I made a direct connection from my s-video using the "domino" input adapter just to check if the signal is there at the other end. The signal can be seen in Vdub only if I use the default res of 720x240 and UYVY data format, however in a very bad quality. If changing either the resolution or data format to anything different the signal disappears from the window. If I use the preview window Vdub becomes unstable to a point that I cannot even close it just by forcing the complete system to restart. I assume I haven't installed all the sofware required for capturing in Vdub and that is the problem. Could you please sum up the softwares required for Vdub to work correctly?

For displaying I use the ATI card's DVI output and seems to be OK.

Thank you very much in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
12-20-2016, 04:24 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mparade View Post
For displaying I use the ATI card's DVI output and seems to be OK.
It works, but if your monitor has the older VGA "D" plugin, use that instead. VGA is faster.

You seem to have installed everything on the CD (if you installed AVIVO, you wasted your time, but just leave it there). First, you should go over the detailed listing and settings guide for VirtualDub, referenced earlier but I'll give the link again: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...-settings.html. The default with AIW cards is usually 720x480 (NTSC input) or 720x576 (PAL input), so it seems as if you might have the wrong input format specified in the Capture Filter settings ("Video" menu), which is covered in one of the 5 or 6 posts that detail the settings. Some of the VDub default settings don't work so well for many users.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
12-20-2016, 06:20 PM
mparade mparade is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
It works, but if your monitor has the older VGA "D" plugin, use that instead. VGA is faster.

You seem to have installed everything on the CD (if you installed AVIVO, you wasted your time, but just leave it there). First, you should go over the detailed listing and settings guide for VirtualDub, referenced earlier but I'll give the link again: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...-settings.html. The default with AIW cards is usually 720x480 (NTSC input) or 720x576 (PAL input), so it seems as if you might have the wrong input format specified in the Capture Filter settings ("Video" menu), which is covered in one of the 5 or 6 posts that detail the settings. Some of the VDub default settings don't work so well for many users.
and it WORKS with my Datavideo-5000 TBC as well playing the tape back on my JVC SR-VS10!!! Thank you very much! After reading out your "tutorial" you are refering to and before making any captures accordingly, I will come back to you with some samples to know your opinion on the quality I can achieve this way (family vhs samples from 1988). I would have never thought that I would make quality captures in 2016 with an old XP PC and capture card.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
12-20-2016, 06:49 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mparade View Post
I will come back to you with some samples to know your opinion on the quality I can achieve this way (family vhs samples from 1988). I would have never thought that I would make quality captures in 2016 with an old XP PC and capture card.
I;m still making firs-class captures with an AIW and PC purchased in 2002, and a 2004 AIW in a cheapo home-made from 2006.

You can post here in the forum. If you need help making short unprocessed samples from your captures, just ask.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
12-22-2016, 07:23 AM
mparade mparade is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
I;m still making firs-class captures with an AIW and PC purchased in 2002, and a 2004 AIW in a cheapo home-made from 2006.

You can post here in the forum. If you need help making short unprocessed samples from your captures, just ask.
Refering to your manual I cannot set "Levels..." using my X800 GT card. Vdub tells: "No video level controls are available with this capture driver". But under "Capture filter..." I have a tab called "Video Proc Amp".
Can I achieve the same quality corrections as with the "Levels..." using this tab? If not, do you recommend other driver (I installed the Catalyst CD that came with the product)/device for capture?

Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
12-22-2016, 07:46 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Yes. Those are the same ATI capture proc amp controls that you would see in the "Levels" section. Just a different hook-in path for that card.

Usually the only controls you will need are Brightness and Contrast. Brightness manages the incoming black level (darks), Contrast manages incoming brights. They interact somewhat so you have to fiddle a bit. The desired luima range as marked in the "safe area" of the capture histogram is y=16-235. You probably know that PC's work with an RGB range of 0-255, but for YUV video work you want 16-235 YUV to avoid crushing dark detail or clipping off bright detail. YUV is the way video is stored, but RGB is the way it will display. During capture you work with YUV, not with RGB.

I wouldn't even try to use the color control. Analog tape color varies so wildly from scene to scene that it's futile to get it right during capture. Better to handle color in post processing where you can be more precise. Sharpening during capture is another thing to avoid -- there are much better sharpeners in Avisynth and other apps. Most people overdo it anyway, which can seriously damage video beyond repair. Brightness and Contrast are the main problems with video tape.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank sanlyn for this useful post: giamis (11-08-2023), mparade (12-22-2016)
  #30  
12-22-2016, 08:01 AM
mparade mparade is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you sanlyn again. Do you recommend controlling Brightness and Contrast tape-by-tape or scene-by-scene?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
12-22-2016, 08:32 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
I usually play a few sections of tape for a minute or two just to check how their levels look in a few different spots. Adjust for the worst-case scenario, as scenes will brighten and darken throughout the tape, so adjust for a worst-case scenario. There may a segment or two that you can return to later if necessary, but usually the same setting will suffice for most of the tape. You are allowed a little leeway outside of the safe zones temporarily, but those can be fixed later during tweaking. Remember that black borders will be zero black or near it and head-switching noise will affect the histogram, so you will get a little left-hand "spike" in the histogram that represents the black borders (I temporarily use the Crop settings to remove borders, but turn it off before you start capture or your image will be cropped). A VCR's on-screen display characters are usually bright and will throw off the histogram as well.

At first it looks complicated, but in a short time you'll get the idea.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
12-22-2016, 11:02 AM
mparade mparade is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It looks like quite OK, but now, when using preview and "Histogram..." at the same time the preview window has a greenish flickering overlay which affects the histogram. After switching the "Histogram..." off under the video tab the content of the preview window will be OK again. Do you have any idea what could cause this behavior?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
12-22-2016, 01:26 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
The preview + histogram works differently with different capture devices. I had a USB card that behaved that way, while my 7500 and 9600Xt AIW's didn't, and another AIW (I think it was an 8500?) where the preview stuttered with the histogram on. An app like Virtualdub can't be designed to accommodate the dozens of cards out there in every respect. As long as you can capture OK, it shouldn't matter. Capture won't work with the histogram running anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
12-23-2016, 05:56 PM
mparade mparade is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
The preview + histogram works differently with different capture devices. I had a USB card that behaved that way, while my 7500 and 9600Xt AIW's didn't, and another AIW (I think it was an 8500?) where the preview stuttered with the histogram on. An app like Virtualdub can't be designed to accommodate the dozens of cards out there in every respect. As long as you can capture OK, it shouldn't matter. Capture won't work with the histogram running anyway.
In your manual it is said that AIW does not process audio. I have an integrated audio device.
If I use the black loop wire on the AIW's output dongle all I need to do is to connect it to the input of the integrated audio device at the back of the PC? Or do I need to make some modification on the AIW/driver itself as well?

Regarding AVIVO and the x800 GT, as far as I know x800 is the last PCI express AIW serie which does not collaborate with AVIVO. The next and further serie has AVIVO support already (x1300), if I remember correctly.

Before capturing do you advise some kind of "preparation" of such tapes that were stored for a long time before? (I have been storing my VHS and VHS-C tapes at home since ~25 years without having played them almost at all).

Thank you very much!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
12-23-2016, 06:45 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mparade View Post
In your manual it is said that AIW does not process audio. I have an integrated audio device.
If I use the black loop wire on the AIW's output dongle all I need to do is to connect it to the input of the integrated audio device at the back of the PC?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mparade View Post
Or do I need to make some modification on the AIW/driver itself as well?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mparade View Post
Regarding AVIVO and the x800 GT, as far as I know x800 is the last PCI express AIW serie which does not collaborate with AVIVO. The next and further serie has AVIVO support already (x1300), if I remember correctly.
You don't want AVIVO anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mparade View Post
Before capturing do you advise some kind of "preparation" of such tapes that were stored for a long time before? (I have been storing my VHS and VHS-C tapes at home since ~25 years without having played them almost at all).
Inspect the cassettes and see if there are bumps, ridges, and other signs of inconsistent tape winding on the feed or take-up reel. If windings don't look smooth and flat, you "repack" the tape by inserting into a player and fast-forward to the end, then back again, without playing. During replay this helps to get a smoother flow of tape from the reel and across the a/v heads.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
12-27-2016, 04:49 PM
mparade mparade is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hello sanlyn,

First of all, thank you very much for the "capturing tutorial", I have learnt a lot again.

I have faced to a "problem" which touches the audio stream:

I have an audio device integrated into my motherboard. I played a lot with Vdub to know if it recognizes the audio stream connected to my AIW card via the "domino" tool. The only solution to capture the audio stream is to choose "0 Capture device" menu item under the Audio menu, at the same time choosing "Audio Line" under the "Audio source" menu item. Under "Audio Input" there is nothing to choose from. Under "Raw capture format..." I can choose only PCM: 48000 Hz, stereo, 16-bit. From "Windows Mixer..." using the Realtek driver I am unable to control any parameter of the input stream. When I checked "enable audio playback", the input stream seemed to be playing back correctly with the video (volume meter confirmed this as well but only when using exactly the above mentioned selections from the menus).

Do you see something problematic with the situation mentioned above?

Thank you again.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
12-28-2016, 05:46 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
The problem appears to be the RealTek chip's interface with Windows. All audio cards won't connect with other software apps in exactly the same way. That's a problem related to Windows' internal coding.

Sometimes enabling audio playback can distort the audio or affect audio sync. I've often captured without audio playback. If you want to check that audio is being captured, the "View" menu shows an active audio graph at the bottom of the capture window.

Audio should be captured to 48KHz 16-bit uncompressed PCM. You should not work with compressed audio tracks. Like video, audio should be processed as lossless media until the final encode. Multiple stages of lossy audio re-compression will definitely ruin audio quality, and audio compression during capture is a slowdown. The typical a/v processing by users as found on YouTube is ample proof of that.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
12-28-2016, 06:24 PM
mparade mparade is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks. It seems, within days I am ready to upload some samples to investigate.
Finally, I am using the following "components" to capture losslessly compressed avi files in Vdub:
AIW x800 GT, 4-core AMD PC with win XP 32 bit service pack 3, JVC SR-VS10E, Datavideo TBC-5000 and what I have learnt here from the DigitalFAQ guys (mostly from sanlyn....)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
12-28-2016, 09:05 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,648
Thanked 1,307 Times in 982 Posts
Thanks for the with/without samples. Clearly the tbc is affecting overall gain, rather than "brightness". Will have some notes ready in the morning.

[EDIT]
Ooops!. that post was in the wrong thread. No matter, looking ahead to checking capture problems if necessary.

Reply With Quote
  #40  
12-29-2016, 05:22 PM
mparade mparade is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hello sanlyn,

I would need help preparing sample .avi's cut with VirtualDub without altering or re-processing the image.

I have already captured 6 pcs of my tapes using your capture guide. So, now I am able to make some samples for you, just please give me the instructions.

Thank you very much!
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Proper power adapter for AVT-8710 TBC? CyborgHyena Video Hardware Repair 5 12-07-2015 02:31 PM
Proper lighting for firewalk? premiumcapture Photo Cameras: Buying & Shooting 4 08-27-2014 12:28 AM
VHS capturing workflow - need confirmation, is this good? mrudic Project Planning, Workflows 12 01-31-2014 05:31 AM
Monitor calibration suggestions for video capturing/editing workflow Mejnour Project Planning, Workflows 10 02-11-2012 10:46 AM
Proper use of a Detailer in capturing VHS jrodefeld Capture, Record, Transfer 2 09-10-2011 10:17 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:38 AM