Wide display gamut monitor for TV standards

Mejnour · #1 12-19-2018, 05:43 PM

Hello guys,

Right now I am capuring with Huffyuv in Virtualdub.

My TBC is a Snell & Wilcox with 10-bits processing.

I use one of SDI output of my TBC to visualize the signal on a calibrated HDTV.

In parallel I capture with a SDI card. My display set-up is a standard 8-bits calibrated IPS monitor that can reproduce around 75% of NTSC-PAL-SECAM color gamut.

My observation is that the colors are way more saturated (less depth?) on the 8-bits monitor, and also the shading is way smoother and better on the HDTV. The skin tone look way better on the HDTV.

I will no pretend that I know all what's going on from a technical point of view. For exemple, I don't even know if "display" and "capture" are related when we talking about bit depth. I know that Huffyuv is 8-bits codec but I don't know if it matters when it come to display. I guess virtualdub have is own display capability too.

I would like to know if I can capture all the subtle shading that I see on the HDTV if I change my set-up for 10-bits video card-monitor display?

thanks for the enlightenment

sanlyn · #2 12-19-2018, 06:55 PM

Let's start at the beginning. You're way ahead of yourself. Your monitors aren't calibrated.

Why would you buy a PC monitor that shows only 75% of the sRGB colorspace? Think about it. There are better monitors for sRGB color. There are other factors at play in the color systems used, but from your description it's obvious that you're using uncalibrated (unsuitable) monitors.

To properly calibrate a PC monitor you need a kit containing a color probe and matching calibration software. To calibrate a TV you need the same color probe and some free software like HCFR to manually calibrate TV. If you're using a TV as a PC monitor, you've succeeded in making your life more difficult for video work. Most PC graphics cards make extremely inaccurate TV drivers.

Calibrating a PC monitor with a color probe + calibration software kit. This link uses an older version of the i1 probe, but the software and method hasn't changed much. Almost all PC monitor calibration kits work the same way, whether you're using an X-rite or a DataColor Spyder product: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/...e_display2.htm.

Current version of the X-Rite i1 PC calibration kit (EODIS3): https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-i1Disp...+i1display+pro.
Current version of the Datacolor Spyder5 calibration kit (S5EL100): https://www.amazon.com/Datacolor-Spy...er5elite&psc=1.

Calibrating your TV is another story and another method, but you still need the color probe. The software for TV calibration is the free ColourHCFR v3.04 (https://sourceforge.net/projects/hcfr/files/). HCFR is used with an older method of calibration that is easier to use and setup: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457.
Then there is the new Calman Chromapure method that's far more expensive and harder to use: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35322.

X-Rite and Spyder5 sell less pricey versions, like the X_Rite ColorMunki (https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-ColorM...YBZ8P3BR1EF78B) and the Spyder5 S5P100 (https://www.amazon.com/Datacolor-Spy...resws%5CSp5100). Both are fully auto with fewer features and somewhat less accuracy. But they beat the heck out of so-called "Calibration" DVD/BD discs, which is the same thing as no calibration at all.

Otherwise you're wasting your time with poorly adjusted gear. You might also consider that wide-gamut monitors refer to D6500 standards, not necessarily to sRGB. Two different calibrations would be required, one for PC monitors and one for TV. You don't use wide-gamut monitors for most video work, which is almost all 8-bit.

Better read up on this stuff before you spend time and money. The TBC you're using wasn't meant for analog sources like VHS. Is your TV a wide-gamut TV and do you get wide-gamut broadcasts or buy wide-gamut DVD or bluray??

Mejnour · #3 12-19-2018, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

Let's start at the beginning. You're way ahead of yourself. Your monitors aren't calibrated.

Why would you buy a PC monitor that shows only 75% of the sRGB colorspace? Think about it. There are better monitors for sRGB color. There are other factors at play in the color systems used, but from your description it's obvious that you're using uncalibrated (unsuitable) monitors.

To properly calibrate a PC monitor you need a kit containing a color probe and matching calibration software. To calibrate a TV you need the same color probe and some free software like HCFR to manually calibrate TV. If you're using a TV as a PC monitor, you've succeeded in making your life more difficult for video work. Most PC graphics cards make extremely inaccurate TV drivers.

Calibrating a PC monitor with a color probe + calibration software kit. This link uses an older version of the i1 probe, but the software and method hasn't changed much. Almost all PC monitor calibration kits work the same way, whether you're using an X-rite or a DataColor Spyder product: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/...e_display2.htm.

Current version of the X-Rite i1 PC calibration kit (EODIS3): https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-i1Disp...+i1display+pro.
Current version of the Datacolor Spyder5 calibration kit (S5EL100): https://www.amazon.com/Datacolor-Spy...er5elite&psc=1.

Calibrating your TV is another story and another method, but you still need the color probe. The software for TV calibration is the free ColourHCFR v3.04 (https://sourceforge.net/projects/hcfr/files/). HCFR is used with an older method of calibration that is easier to use and setup: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457.
Then there is the new Calman Chromapure method that's far more expensive and harder to use: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35322.

X-Rite and Spyder5 sell less pricey versions, like the X_Rite ColorMunki (https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-ColorM...YBZ8P3BR1EF78B) and the Spyder5 S5P100 (https://www.amazon.com/Datacolor-Spy...resws%5CSp5100). Both are fully auto with fewer features and somewhat less accuracy. But they beat the heck out of so-called "Calibration" DVD/BD discs, which is the same thing as no calibration at all.

Otherwise you're wasting your time with poorly adjusted gear. You might also consider that wide-gamut monitors refer to D6500 standards, not necessarily to sRGB. Two different calibrations would be required, one for PC monitors and one for TV. You don't use wide-gamut monitors for most video work, which is almost all 8-bit.

Better read up on this stuff before you spend time and money. The TBC you're using wasn't meant for analog sources like VHS. Is your TV a wide-gamut TV and do you get wide-gamut broadcasts or buy wide-gamut DVD or bluray??

Salyn,

I never said that I was working with a 75% sRGB monitor. I am saying that 8-bits monitor dispay 75% of NTSC-PAL-SECAM color space. I know that normal monitor display 100% sRGB.

https://www.lifewire.com/lcd-monitor...-gamuts-833038

I also specified that both display device were calibrated. And yes they are calibrated with the same probe using the same software.

sanlyn · #4 12-19-2018, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mejnour

I never said that I was working with a 75% sRGB monitor. I am saying that 8-bits monitor dispay 75% of NTSC-PAL-SECAM color space. I know that normal monitor display 100% sRGB.

Then you indeed say above that the monitor covers only 75%. And you said it earlier:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mejnour

In parallel I capture with a SDI card. My display set-up is a standard 8-bits calibrated IPS monitor that can reproduce around 75% of NTSC-PAL-SECAM color gamut.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mejnour

I also specified that both display device were calibrated. And yes they are calibrated with the same probe using the same software.

Good show, then. Many say their monitors are calibrated, but they use one of the popular DVD or Bluray TV discs that's a poor substitute for calibration and are full of errors.

By wide gamut are you referring to sRGB or the D6500 TV system? I don't know that a wide gamut monitor would be worth the trouble with 8-bit sources, 8-bit filters, and encoders that work with interpolated 9- or 10-bit methods but output 8-bit video. If high quality captures and processing are the goal, then player, capture gear, post-processing skills, and advanced color grading knowledge nand tools are more important and ultimately more effective. Who wants to see VHS noise, discoloration, and other defects in 10-bit?