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  #1  
03-25-2010, 05:45 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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continued from pm...

Quote:
Hi LS-

Here's a quote from a post you left on the videohelp.com forum from a few months back (http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...R-MV1S-Loading) regarding the infamous 'loading error':

Quote:
...They'll be fixing it for free for pretty much forever, because many states have laws regarding this sort of thing. It can be complicated too, so the typical solution (the easy one) is to just fix anybody that has the problem. After 4-5 years now, I would imagine they don't get many requests -- most people just throw them away and move on. (Stupid move, but it's what they do.)
Here's the response I was just handed today when I wrote (yesterday) to explain that I have TWO decks that require service due to this condition:

Quote:
Thank you for contacting JVC Customer Care, my name is Tamara, your email care specialist. We value you as a JVC customer and appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance.

I understand that you are experiencing some difficulites with your DVD recorders.

Since we are not certified as technicians to diagnose product problems, our best advice is to refer you to an authorized service center for proper evaluation or possible repair. The following link will direct you to your nearest authorized service center or factory service center as well as offer answers to commonly-asked questions about our service policy:

http://support.jvc.com/consumer/supp...=1&item=29#294

Please note that the service program previously mentioned by Nancy has since expired. I do apologize, but you would be responsible for any repair costs.

If you have any other questions please let us know at customerrelations@jvc.com.

Sincerely,

Tamara H.
JVC Customer Care
I gotta get my set-top recorders fixed...Who do I go above's the head of "Tamara" to in order to get this done? I'm not paying JVC (or someone else) because the corporation thought it would be an effective cost-saving measure to cr*p out on the brand of capacitors used in mass manufacture for retail products!!!
Please drop a note here and let me know what you think?? Kinda tired of getting bamboozled by companies who automatically expect me to lie down like an obedient dog...

Thank you in advance...
Warning: Part of my response is going to seem like an anti-corporate rant...

JVC is a big corporate entity that, like many other big corporations, has adopted anti-consumer methods for doing business. My college journalism professor would surely remind me that JVC is not a "person", so I cannot claim that "it" acts in any specific way. However, I have always countered that such companies seem to hire uncaring asses for employees, especially in the so-called "customer care" departments.

These are the same kind of people who fill your glass full of ice at the drive-through, giving you two squirts of drink in your cup. They don't want to give you the product/service you paid for, and these corporate goombas act like you're trying to steal their own personal possessions when you demand less ice and more drink --- or in this case, that they honor the repair of known-defective devices. I speak specifically to the cheap Chinese capacitors found in 2003-2005 era electronics, including the JVC lines of DVD recorders from this period.

That canned response BS does not fly with me -- if anything, it pisses me off to no end.

To deal with this sort of stubborn mentality, you need to be firm and mean. Most people don't have this in them -- in fact, that's why this situation even exists. The companies (or rather the employees of the company, thanks much professor!) know that most people cower down, and won't fight back. They depend on this!

Call the service center and get somebody on the phone. You need to be confrontational when they attempt to deny you a suitable resolution to the issue. Constantly point out that the problem was THEIRS and is a MANUFACTURING DEFECT and you're very aware thatn JVC has been fixing this problem for free for years now -- you read about it all the time. Give videohelp.com as a source of posts from consumers that had it fixed free of charge. (I would say to use this site, but there are far more "they fixed it" posts at VH).

Ask for supervisors ad nauseam, and it's often helpful to throw in a few edgy words. As sad as it may be, saying
  • "This machine is broken and you need to fix it!"
is rarely as effective as
  • This damned machine is broken, and you need to f'n fix it!!"
Oh no! The "D" word! The "F" word! So what. Use them --they are effective. Just look at how much attention words like "retard" get these days. Would anybody have even noticed that conversation, had Rahm not called the Congress retarded? Heck no!

Demand satisfaction, don't expect them to just give it because you asked nicely.

Many people disagree with me on this, but those tend to be the same folks that get mowed over by the cableco, telephone company, restaurant, etc -- and it's just not right. I give people credit when they're trying, but this sort of careless response is not trying. In fact, they're so far from caring that the word to describe them starts with an 'A' and ends with a 'hole'.

NOTE: This only works against large companies. Small companies will just tell you to piss off.

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Last edited by lordsmurf; 03-25-2010 at 05:57 PM.
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  #2  
03-26-2010, 01:31 PM
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Okay:

I called the toll-free number JVC lists at their site, followed the prompts and spoke to "Gabriel" in Customer Service. Asked me the details about my faulty deck (nature of problem, s/n, date of purchase). Gave me the street address to where I could submit my deck for repair, advised me to enclose a letter with my contact info and to specifically state the details of the malfunction.
So far, so good.
He asked me to be sure to enclose my phone number, so that a tech could reach me to estimate the cost of repair.
Well, we were doing okay until we got this far-
'This deck failed for the same reasons that all the others have, why did everyone else get their deck fixed and I have to pay for mine to be repaired?'
'Because the repair program for this model series has expired on December 31, 2009...We extended it 2 years beyond the original expiration date. If you chose to not have this repaired after it was inspected, it would be at a cost of a minimum of $65.00'.
I said that I hadn't seen any indication of a posted date of expiry for factory problem repairs...Gabriel says it has been posted at the site. I just took a quick look, but I didn't see a date in print...Maybe I missed it?
I did not challenge Gabriel in hardball fashion, nor curse at him- He is a rep, not a supervisor and was not handing me a repair bill. He was just answering my questions and advising me of what to do/possibly expect.
I had the cover off this unit the other day and compared it to an already-refurnished unit of the identical model. I could see where some of the (new) caps were different from what was still in the unserviced/faulty unit, but did not see any leaking, exploded caps. A couple of the tops of some caps looked like they may be the very slightest bit enlarged- but I saw nothing that was in obvious need of attention.
This deck displays the flashing "loading" error when powered on, but can be made to somewhat work (playback), if fiddled with for long enough. It can't be used to record, because the recorded picture appears VERY poor; It gets MUCH too dark, then MUCH too light...'washed-out' looking, as if something internal is obviously not working and is making the picture quality literally waver, wander about aimlessly...
I told the phone rep, Gabriel that I would submit this for repair and see what the technician thought upon inspecting it. I figured that if it got as far as JVC asking me for money, then that would probably be the appropriate time to 'get angry' and refuse. However, I wonder-
Based on what you've heard and read from JVC users who have experienced failing units and from those who have then sought factory repair service, do I fall into the "bad cap syndrome" category- and qualify for (free) repair? Or do I stand to lose both the shipping fee to the factory and the unit itself because I don't intend to open my wallet?
JVC once repaired a camcorder for me because of factory manufacture error (symptoms matched all the on-line complaints exactly), but they won't repair my stupid combo deck?!?
What is your suggestion? I could SURELY use the deck repaired, but I know my budget could not even nearly absorb a juicy repair bill-
Thanks in advance for your time.
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  #3  
03-26-2010, 01:58 PM
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If you see bulged or leaky capacitors, and are sure that's the best fix, then go to a local college and find somebody that works in the broadcasting education department. You don't want the library a/v lab or some BS -- get the degree-holding journalists that use this equipment daily to teach courses. They're often in a Mass Comm or Communication department of some kind. No kids, no students -- seek out the grown/experienced adults.

Ask if the gearhead tinkerer of the group would be able to help you replace the bad caps. The parts are less than $5, and $25-30 is generally enough to suffice for the 15-30 minutes it takes to dismantle the unit and swap out the caps.

The quoted $65 is about all I'd pay JVC. That's already bordering on highway robbery, because it won't take any effort to locate the caps. A skilled repairman would have this off his desk in an hour.

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  #4  
09-02-2010, 12:34 AM
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I took a risk and bought a DR-M10s because it was very low priced and the seller said it was in working condition.
But when I got it, it had a blank disc in it and when I powered it up it had the famous flashing loading on screen.
Somehow I managed to get it to allow me to open the disc tray and I put it a couple of bought DVDs that it played.
Then when I put a blank -RW in, it started the loading error again and haven't been able to get anywhere no matter how much I plug/unplug.
Now the problem is I won't gain anything by sending it back to seller since it was priced so low.
So I was wondering if a TV repairman could troubleshoot the power supply and see if any caps are bad.
I did noticed 2 caps were slightly bulged on top when I took off the top cover.
I guess the other possibility is the laser lens is dirty but no matter how fast I press the open tray button after power up,
the blinking loading light takes over.
So the other question is, it is safe to gently pry the tray open to get the disc out?
At this point since I am not the original owner, I doubt JVC would be kind to me no matter how much ranting I do however I do see that would be a good way to deal with them if I was the original owner.
So I will either toss it or maybe hold it in hopes of finding another one at a low price and maybe making 1 good one out of 2.
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  #5  
09-02-2010, 02:43 AM
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The more you try and force it to operate, the more likely it will cause internal power surges to boards and the drive, and kill them. Open it up and look for leaking or bulged capacitors. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes the bulging or leaking is only very slight.

Even a high school kid with decent electronics experience could fix it. I often suggest finding a person that is both competent in electronics (including soldering and fixing boards), as well as understanding it's a video device (and not a toast, so be gentle!)

I would not toss it, I'd suggest getting it fixed. It is worth it. As these disappear more and more, because people toss them, the prices will go up, due to continued demand by people aware of the machine's strengths.

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  #6  
09-02-2010, 03:08 PM
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UPDATE!!
I took it to a local TV repairman and showed him the 2 slightly bulged caps.
I waited around till he checked the board, he replaced the 2 caps and got it going.
He told me he checked the diodes and all of them were good.
I put it in power save mode after I got home and read up on problems with this unit on the other forum.
I do wish I had read all info over there first, I could have had him replace the resistors also.
But I have turned it off and on several times and during on times, recorded from a digital STB in 160FR to see how it does.
So far so good, I prayed to the digital burning gods before starting it up.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed too for a while.
BTW, great picture even in 160.

PS
I am glad I found out about the power save feature as I have a DVHS that has it too and it runs rather warm even with the power off.
I plan on giving it a try on that deck also.

Last edited by Steve(MS); 09-02-2010 at 03:20 PM.
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09-03-2010, 02:41 AM
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Excellent update, another success story folks can read, and learn how easy and worthwhile it is to repair these high quality machines. (High quality recording abilities, that is! Maybe not build from the best parts, but that can be changed, and is what this whole ordeal has been about!)

Not sure if the power save function works the same on the D-VHS off-hand, but it's worth a try. Keep us updated on how that goes for you, too

Thanks for the follow-up.

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