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  #1  
03-16-2019, 05:27 PM
keaton keaton is offline
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I capture VirtualDub Huffyuv AVI only. I don't ask much I am trying to upgrade from ATI USB 600 which prevents contrast adjustment in the internal proc amp without adding spikes across the entire preview histogram, to a full fledged AIW capture card. Sometimes, even with TBC proc amp contrast all the way down, I still get too hot of a signal, so I was hoping a real capture card with better proc amp contrast control would solve this.

I have no install disc for an X600 Pro PCIe, and tried using ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC

I searched exhaustively through this forum and have spent about 20 hours researching and retrying (even from fresh XP SP2 install) with different orders, all with the same result.

I already have DirectX 9.0c. As stated elsewhere on this site, I installed pre-requisites Windows Installer 3.1 rebooted, then Installed .NET Framework 2.0.

Then I install 10-2_legacy_xp32-64_dd_ccc.exe (with or without Control Center on various attempts), reboot, then install 10-2_legacy_xp32-64_wdm.exe (deselect USB drivers) with or without AVIVO (on various attempts), and reboot. At this point we have ATI T200 Unified AVStream Driver in Device Manager under Sound, video and game controllers. In Virtualdub, we have the WDM device option and the just mentioned ATI device option on Device menu. Selecting ATI, there is the white noise screen of the TV Tuner. The tuner isn't connected to anything, but still seems to pick up the onscreen display from my VCR over the air channel 3 (i.e. PLAY, etc), although very blurry. This doesn't display while tape is playing. So Tuner seems alive. On this Device, if changing from Tuner to Composite or S-Video source, there is a completely black screen (nothing). This black screen is the same for Overlay or Preview mode. Even tried the Enable Audio Playback (I think that's what it's called) because I saw that in a thread. No change.

sources.JPG

The purple ATI 6140004600 input device (with purple box, not domino box, which I would hope doesn't matter) is connected to purple 8-pin input on the I/O SCART/Dongle/whatever that connects to the X600's square connector (yes, that hard to find PCIe model connector). This dongle also has 10-pin black Output, and a VGA connector. I noticed in X600 photos it was packaged with a different set of connectors on this dongle, and a domino box instead of the purple one I have. I would like to think these subtleties aren't relevant, and the Purple Inputs wire to the same thing on the other side of the connector.

When attempting to select the WDM Device in Virtualdub, this message is displayed
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Click OK on that and another message saying Virtualdub cannot connect to the desired capture driver.

This is confounding, because I don't have any of the things listed in this error message installed. Some of these items are not even present in the installers taken from the post mentioned above. Installing any number of these things, or killing all the processes I can in Task Manager will not remove this message. So, I am resigned that the ATI device is what I'd have to use, if I could actually get it to work. It also makes me suspect this software is not really targeted for this card. It's confusing how the Display Device says "ATI Radeon X300/X550/X1050 Series". None of these are model numbers listed as PCIe AIW models in the ATI MMC SW thread.

Installing any other software such as Catalyst Control Center (an optional install with display driver that i've tried with initial driver install, as well as delayed until after WDM install in various attempts) or AVIVO (which I tried installing together with WDM or separately afterwards in various attempts) or MMC (either after WDM or after control center with UCI first, then ENU 9-14, then optional upgrade to 9-16 in various attempts), rebooting all along the way, do nothing to change the situation. I've tried only installing the TV option on MMC, as well as installing everything. No difference. I've tried many combinations. Playing around in the Windows Media software installed with this is also quite painful and the input is always black screen there as well. Also black screen in the TV program when selecting Composite or SVideo. Tuner is white noise as expected.

I've seen the question come up before about the black screen on Composite or S-Video input selection, and I don't think I've seen a reply. Perhaps someone also posted they had an install disc, but there was never a post of that.

I'm beginning to suspect that nobody has successfully gotten the X600 Pro to work with the files in post #48 cited above. I don't have the install disc.

If the X600 is a bust, I'm fine with that, as I got the precious PCIe model I/O SCART/dongle/whatchamacallit. I don't have the output audio loopback wire, and am assuming for now I can work without, as I used the 600 USB as Video only and wired audio straight from VCR to PC audio with no issues.

Shopping around, I've seen an AIW X800 XL PCIe (ala carte "new" and cheap, which I have the precious dongle for now) and a AIW 7500 PCI (with disk and all accessories at bit higher price, who references this site specifically for installation woes). I'm game to try another card. I guess I'm trying to get more confidence that I've done all I can and perhaps the X600 Pro requires a specific install disc. My experience is certainly that the "PCIe" files given on this site don't work for X600 Pro. Perhaps if the 7500 isn't enough to drive my 1920 x 1080 monitor, I could somehow use it as capture only with a separate PCIe video card? Sounds risky.

I don't hear anything about the purple input boxes being particular to a given series or being flaky. I assume it's just wires, nothing intelligent, so I would think that's not the problem. Although I capture audio with a separate Audio source in Vdub, I did try to get signs of life out of the dongle using the ATI device as an audio source, and got something. I could capture black screen with audio, the audio was left channel only, and only went away when I disconnect the right audio input from the purple input box. Weird, but I figured it was trying to route through some default audio path instead of the audio source I normally use. I cannot imagine there's much to go wrong with these things. It was sent in original bag and claimed to be a new, unused part that came with a TV Wonder 650 PCI card.

Anyway, after reading over tons of posts on this site and so much trial and error, I'm out of ideas for the X600 Pro, and am fishing for any thoughts/opinions on what to consider next. And, no, I don't have AGP.

Thanks in advance for your time!


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  #2  
03-16-2019, 10:35 PM
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Yeah, there are at least two versions of the slot breakout for the PCI-e AIWs, one for the earlier versions and one for the rest. I have an AIW 2006 and found that the one with the F-connectors (antenna) -- which I think is what ships with the x600 -- does not work with it whereas the one with the VGA out does, so I figure if the one that doesn't work isn't broken then there's probably just some fundamental incompatibility between the two. The part number you might be looking for is 6110018300.

The purple box is interchangeable with the domino box with the purple cord. Dunno how much real-world difference it makes, but the domino box has what appears to be copper or gold plated connectors.

I did also have a similar interaction with that Device in Use message when selecting or not selecting WDM -- only one way worked, either selecting directly from the Device menu or selecting it through WDM/Video > Source, can't remember which. Otherwise all I did was install some old version of the Catalyst driver and with the aforementioned caveat I was able to capture about as fine as I could expect with a completely dodgy and not well documented workflow.

The 7500 was more cooperative, but only slightly and only for capturing. I don't know if my card was a dud in some way or if it was just old, but Windows in 32-bit color was slow and completely unusable.
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  #3  
03-16-2019, 11:18 PM
keaton keaton is offline
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Interesting. So it seems they give me the correct breakout with the VGA on it, and not 6110018300.

After attempting to select the WDM Device, and click OK on the error messages, there is no Device selected on the Device menu. Selection of the Video Sources has no effect. I think I'm experiencing things a bit differently from you in that area. It seems like the software I have to work with just wasn't meant for the X600 pro.

I wasn't aware there was any older version of catalyst I could install. All I've seen here (without a disc) for PCIe is from post #48 of the ATI MMC software thread, which is bundled with the display driver exe.

I realized the 7500 I thought I found doesn't specify which kind, and it appears to be AGP. There's only one regular PCI board on the list (VE 7500), and haven't seen that on ebay. Easy to overlook the subtle model number difference.

I see 2006 PCIe, X800 XL, X1300, and X1800 on ebay for not much money. I believe they all take the breakout connector I've got. I guess it's a matter of finding out how many people report success with each. Not so sure if 2006 PCIe would be more like the X600, from your experience. Although you managed to get it working, sounds like it may have been kind of an accident. I think X800 XL has been confirmed more than once to work with the PCIe files on this site. X1300 may also do. After that, it gets into separate power supply connections to power the X1800 and X1900, which isn't a deal breaker, just seems a bit overkill (unless they were much easier to work with). The good news is they are cheap and easy to find. Perhaps I just keep pulling the trigger on another card until I can get one to work with the files posted here, or find the rare one with an install disc.
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  #4  
03-17-2019, 12:42 AM
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Did you verify with msconfig that another backgroudn video program isn't running at startup?
Check the systray for active?
Look with services to verify nothing is accessing?

PCIe cards required the Catalyst 10.x and 9.1.x MMC.

The domino/purple is interchangeable, and zero difference. If anything, the older purple are easeir to use, don't grip wires as hard.

Did you try Preview, not Overlay preview mode? It's often the mode needed.

I'd built a few PCIe systems in the past 10 years, but don't like the card much. It has more image offset that I like, no dropped frames counter in MMC, and the "software vs. hardware" encoding is fiddly. The internal audio is terrible, hardware MPEG blocky ("software" is classics hybrid hardware/software, still looks fine). More dropped frames issues that not. More random with hardware conflicts than either AGP or PCI AIW.

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  #5  
03-17-2019, 01:28 AM
Sergei316 Sergei316 is online now
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I have the AIW x600 original discs. There are 2 Catalyst discs that came with my x600. I can upload the ISO's if you want them. One says CATALYST 100+DVD 180-V01098-100 the other says CATALYST 100 180-G3D060-100. Both CD's are dated 2004.

Let me know if you want them.
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  #6  
03-17-2019, 02:12 AM
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Please upload for me to add to our collection. I'll add them to a new post for ATI CD ISOs.

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  #7  
03-17-2019, 02:43 AM
Sergei316 Sergei316 is online now
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AIW x600 PCI-Express
Catalyst 100+DVD / 180-V01098-100
Date 2004
4 Parts ISO


Attached Files
File Type: rar Catalyst100DVD_180V01098100_x600.part1.rar (85.00 MB, 2 downloads)
File Type: rar Catalyst100DVD_180V01098100_x600.part2.rar (85.00 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: rar Catalyst100DVD_180V01098100_x600.part3.rar (85.00 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: rar Catalyst100DVD_180V01098100_x600.part4.rar (66.99 MB, 3 downloads)
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  #8  
03-17-2019, 03:20 AM
Sergei316 Sergei316 is online now
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AIW x600 PCI-Express
Catalyst 100 / 180-G3D0600-100
Date 2004
7 Parts ISO


Attached Files
File Type: rar Catalyst100A_180G3D060100_x600.part1.rar (85.00 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: rar Catalyst100A_180G3D060100_x600.part2.rar (85.00 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: rar Catalyst100A_180G3D060100_x600.part3.rar (85.00 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: rar Catalyst100A_180G3D060100_x600.part4.rar (85.00 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: rar Catalyst100A_180G3D060100_x600.part5.rar (85.00 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: rar Catalyst100A_180G3D060100_x600.part6.rar (85.00 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: rar Catalyst100A_180G3D060100_x600.part7.rar (69.45 MB, 3 downloads)
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  #9  
03-17-2019, 11:27 AM
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Small suggestion.

It sounds like your PCI Express bus drivers are not installed, or up to date (circa 2005).

You can get in a situation where the video card drivers are installed, but the bus is not (woke up) by the proper driver support. PCIe came out after XP was developed and required Via, Intel ect.. drivers be installed for your chipset.

If that is the case. The error message could be an assumption that the video card is not answering to hails (because) it assumes its already been claimed by another application for exclusive access.

Last edited by jwillis84; 03-17-2019 at 11:46 AM.
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  #10  
03-17-2019, 01:28 PM
keaton keaton is offline
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Thank You, Sergei!!!!

The 180-V01098-100 files unrared and the iso was mountable/burnable. I'm in the process of playing with this disc.

I've downloaded the 180-G3D0600-100 files twice, and both times they unrar, but to an iso image that I cannot mount/burn. Tried multiple image mounting programs.

I'm not sure what the 180-G3D0600-100 disc is for. The 1098 disc has an Install folder for seemingly every component. Haven't tried it yet, but it looks like it has a full suite (Drivers, WDM, UCI, MMC, Cpanel, and more that I probably don't need/care).

Although I am still curious what is on that disc. Alternate versions of software? If you could try a rebuild of the iso for that disc and try again, it would really be appreciated.
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03-17-2019, 02:29 PM
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180-G3D0600-100 will mount under magiciso

contents:

DirectX9 - installer
WMC - Windows Media 9 Codecs
WME - Windows Media 9 Encoder
WMF - Windows Meta Files for Win98
WMP - Windows Media Player 7.1
.Net 1.1 Framework installer
Visual Communicator WEB for ATI


You can use 7-Zip for windows to extract to a folder by the same name as the RAR file, it will extract a proper .iso file
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03-17-2019, 05:10 PM
keaton keaton is offline
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Thank you to everyone! Still not there, but more optimistic for the time being.

Thanks for looking into that 180-G3D0600-100 iso. Nothing of interest for me there. The 180-V01098-100 disc is the fantastic find here. Bravo to Sergei!!!

I ultimately got things installed again, and got the same result of black screen on the composite and s-video inputs. The Tuner is the only thing on TV that can be seen in both TV program and in Virtualdub.

Step 1 (for now, I assume I don't need separate steps for WDM vs the Driver/Control Panel. The ATI installer seems to sequence this in correct order)
Take1-Step1.JPG

After reboot

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In Device Manager for the many ATI devices now in Sound, video and game controllers section (e.g. ATI WDM TV Tuner), the driver version is 6.14.10.6274 dated 11/4/2004

The use of both WDM and ATI Devices in Virtualdub is possible! Preview mode for ATI device is necessary.

The Device Manager looks much different than before. More entries in Sound, video and game controls section for ATI (with ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC there was only ATI T200 Unified AVStream Driver), and also X600 called out by name in Device Manager instead of "X300/X550/X1050 Series" with that software.

Step 2 (deselect all but TV when installing MMC)
DevMgr.JPG

Because this is the official disk. I think I've done it right this time, and I think there must be something in either of the connectors involved between the card and the VCR, either purple dongle or the ATI I/O connector. Since the I/O dongle I have doesn't have RF connectors on it, and is the one with VGA on it, I am thinking the problem is probably there. It is not the dongle pictured with X600 pro on old reviews. My best guess is that the wiring of the purple 8-pin input connector to the card is different. I don't want to think that, but the fact that this is the official software and I can now see the Tuner for both WDM and ATI devices makes me think I've got the correct SW configuration for this card. There's a slight chance I have a bad purple input connector. But the fact that right audio maps to left and left doesn't map at all makes me also think the I/O dongle may not be wired the same for the two variants of that dongle.

I was lucky enough to find the I/O dongle for X600 on ebay, so this saga will continue next week once that arrives! Pictured here (https://www.svideo.com/6110018300.html). Price is the same as an X800, but I think having the correct install disc favors continuing with X600.

Peeking in the .dat files in the Install folder of the 1098 disc (i.e. Install\MMC\MMC.dat, etc.) I see the following versions of things when looking at the "Ver= xxxx" line at the end of these files:
MMC 9.03.1
UCI 09
Driver 8.072-041103a-019289C-ATI (whatever that means )
Cpanel 6.14.10.5131
WDM AiW/Vivo 4.11 (6274)

Basically, the software is quite different from post #48 on ATI MMC thread. And as seen above, Dev Manager looks quite different with just installing the basics (Display Driver, Control Panel, WDM NSP Drivers, Unified Component Install, MMC 9.x with TV only)

If there's any value to 9.03 vs 9.14, perhaps hackers out there can figure how to get the MMC 9.03.1 to work on other PCIe cards.

Regarding PCIe mobo drivers, I previously had a PCIe video card in the same slot for years with latest drivers from mobo vendor. I see them in Device Manager, so I don't believe there is any issue there. It's all good but the Composite/SVideo path from VCR to card.

For anyone still watching, tune in next week for the next chapter in this thrilling saga!


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  #13  
03-17-2019, 07:16 PM
Sergei316 Sergei316 is online now
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That is the exact dongle I use on my x600. I have no issues viewing the capture with the PREVIEW option. I have the purple breakout box connected to the dongle and I use the svideo input on the purple breakout box.

I am working on scanning the manual for the x600 now. Might be a few hours.

-- merged --

AIW x600 Manual


Attached Files
File Type: pdf AIWx600_Manual.pdf (28.04 MB, 3 downloads)
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  #14  
03-18-2019, 06:19 PM
keaton keaton is offline
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Once again, Sergei, Thank You so much for really going above and beyond. Cannot thank you enough!!!

Perhaps there should be an addendum of some sort to post #1 or #6 or #48 in the ATI MMC thread to note there are two variants of I/O connectors for these PCIe cards. Cannot speak for them all. It would seem the connectors on the card should be the determining factor. I guess if there are RF connectors on the card, use the VGA variant of the I/O connector. If there are not RF connectors on the card, use the RF variant of I/O connector. From pictures I've seen so far, it may be that the X600 is the only one without RF connectors on the card.

Which dongle to use with which card seems so obvious to me now, but it was a really big blind spot. I assumed the vendor that sold me this card/connector combo understood this.
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  #15  
03-18-2019, 07:11 PM
Sergei316 Sergei316 is online now
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Keaton,

After reading this entire post several times, are you saying the dongle you have been using is for the x800, x1300, and x1800 AIW capture cards?
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  #16  
03-18-2019, 11:05 PM
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I've always hated the word "dongle". Too phallic.

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  #17  
03-19-2019, 08:50 AM
keaton keaton is offline
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Sergei,

Yes, I am saying I've been using the I/O connector for X800 onward (i.e. intended for cards that have RF connectors onboard and no VGA connector on board). That's what was sold to me with the X600 card. I assumed the seller knew what I/O connector to bundle with this card. And we know the old adage about making assumptions.

LS,

I'll try to refrain from using the d-word any further on this forum.
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  #18  
03-24-2019, 08:36 PM
keaton keaton is offline
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I acquired an AVIO cable with 2 RF Connectors, and I can now see S-Video and Composite video inputs in Virtualdub with WDM and ATI Devices on the AIW X600 Pro via the Purple Input! Here's a picture:

avio-rf.jpg

In order to get the ATI Device to show video, I must use Preview mode and EITHER select something in preview acceleration (e.g. Interlaced Frames) OR enable the Histogram. Odd quirk, but this had no effect on the capture performance. It's actually a plus to see the histogram while you're capturing! Couldn't do this with the ATI 600 USB.

It appears this cable is only for the X600 card, as it seems to be the only card without RF connectors on board. From the images I've seen of the other AIW PCI Express cards (i.e. 2006, X800 XL, X1300, X1800, and X1900), they all seem to have 2 RF connectors on board. The cable for these cards looks like this:

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I hope this helps anyone who gets an X600, or is considering getting one. This all came about because I got this on ebay and was given the wrong cable. May no reader of this forum ever have to waste time with this silly anomaly of the X600 card again!

I'm really liking this card! It's so wonderful to be able to adjust the contrast on the capture device levels and not generate spikes on histogram (unlike the ATI 600 USB I had been using)! Another small detail that may be of interest is that I bypass the audio inputs on the Purple box and plug audio straight from VCR out to the PC, and I have no audio video delay or drift issues, at least when the video frames aren't interrupted (i.e. stable output from a TBC or just a really good tape with no issues).

One final thank you to everyone who helped me get through this. We also got an X600 install disc out of this (180-V01098-100), compliments of Sergei! Onward and upward!


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  #19  
03-24-2019, 10:46 PM
Sergei316 Sergei316 is online now
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Congrats!!

I am happy it worked out well for you.

Keaton, do you have a specific model/item number for the cable that you purchased? I have to double check mine when I get home because I am not sure I have the RF connectors on my cable.

I have also bypassed the purple box audio inputs. From day one, I went direct to sound card and have had zero issues with audio sync.

to contribute!
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  #20  
03-24-2019, 11:29 PM
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jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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http://pinouts.ru/VideoCables/#ATILord Smurf always recommends by-passing the sound around the Barney dock and into a Sound Card. But more specifically he recommends The Turtle Beach Santa Cruz card.. if you can get it.

He's a smart cookie.. I'd really recommend taking his advice.

I'd like to know that cables part number (p/n) as well. There was a specific manufacturer that contracted to make them for ATI but they stopped doing so. But the p/n can really help when searching other sources online. Occasionally you can find one. Its not in the Owner/users guide.. so other than embossed on it.. I'm not sure where you could find it.. in the manifest with the collateral package?

edit:

Ati AIW Weison Splitter Cable

(maybe)
Item# 6110018300-B

The pinouts might be available here under the LE5, but I'm doubtful. The X600 looks like it has a "biscuit" array with two rows of pins rather than the Din 24.. I've never had one in my hands so I can't be sure. I could also totally be confusing myself too.. the DIN 24 is specific to the 9600 cards with (no) DVI or VGA headers on the back plane at all. These PCIe cards seemed to have learned their lesson and didn't do that anymore.

Last edited by jwillis84; 03-24-2019 at 11:50 PM.
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