Quantcast Open MPEG Movie in MPEG-VCR doesn't work? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
04-19-2011, 03:19 AM
littlebrother littlebrother is offline
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OK, so I'm a total newbie with this application and I managed to fall at the first hurdle.

The help file states that "The editor brings up a new video player for every successful open operation." but it does not give any indication as to what could be wrong when as in my case nothing happens, not even an error message.

What have I missed? Should I point to a external video player somewhere?

Second question: My first project is to edit a DVD that a friend recorded for me from TV where I only want half an hour in the middle of the two hour recording.

When I read the guides on this site I had the impression that I needed to use DVD Decrypter first but as that produced a VOB file which is the same type as on the original DVD I'm not sure I understand why?
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  #2  
04-19-2011, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
When I read the guides on this site I had the impression that I needed to use DVD Decrypter first but as that produced a VOB file which is the same type as on the original DVD I'm not sure I understand why?
A VOB file is how audio/video/nav data is stored for the DVD-Video video format. DVD-Video supports UDF or UDF/ISO bridged file system, and ISO has a 2GB file max size. I don't remember the specific reason, but all files on a DVD must be less than 1GB each, hence 0.99GB files.

When you use DVD Decrypter in "IFO mode", you extract usable non-split VOB files. Homemade DVDs can be safely and easily edited from this point, as the nav data is very basic, and the audio formats are almost always PCM, MPEG layer, or Dolby. Commercial/retail DVDs, on the other hand, tend to have more "stuff" in the VOB files, making them harder to edit, thereby requiring extra extraction steps.

SIDE NOTE: A lot of people make the bad choice of simply extracting the 1GB VOB files, and re-attaching them in an editor. However, there will almost always be a noticeable glitch at the merge points, as this is not proper editing methodology. This wrong method also commonly leads to audio sync problems. The videos need to be extracted and re-merged via IFO navigation data (hence "IFO mode" in DVD Decrypter), and not by the file breaks.

If you ripped a homemade DVD in your computer, and ended up with a single VOB files, that's good! (Or multiple VOB files if it was an episode-style DVD. That's less common for homemade work, unless it's TV recordings.) What you have here is an MPEG video file + audio, stored inside a VOB container/wrapper file.

Simply drop that VOB file into MPEG-VCR, and it should open without issues. I constantly edit extracted discs in both Womble MPEG-VCR* and Womble MPEG Video Wizard 4*. ---- (*Software names linked to their editing guides.)

Was your problem trying to "open" (as in File > Open) the VOB file? If so, that's the whole problem. Refer back to the guides. Simply drag and drop the videos -- don't try to "open" anything.

See how that works for you.

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  #3  
04-19-2011, 03:48 PM
littlebrother littlebrother is offline
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I still had the MPEG-VCR application open and tried your advice, didn't work, but when I closed and reopened it drag and drop suddenly worked.

Although I must confess I can't see any reference to drag and drop in the Remove Footage with Womble MPEG-VCR guide. It does state:

Quote:
1. Open the File. Either go to FILE-> OPEN MPEG MOVIE or click the OPEN MPEG FILE button (which looks like the NEW FILE button found in most other programs).
Nevertheless, once successfully opened it worked very well indeed.

This editing without re-encoding is a very good thing which leads to a follow-up question although I will let you decide if it merits its own thread.

If I don't want to do anything with the now edited segment other than burn it to a new DVD, is it possible to do that without re-encoding and if so what software can handle that? I mean it sort of already is encoded for DVD purposes, isn't it, and the less processing you have to do the better.

I do have DVD authoring applications, some paid for and some free-ware but I'm not sure if anyone of them would do that or if re-encoding is still necessary.
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  #4  
04-19-2011, 07:51 PM
dyfan dyfan is offline
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The editor drew this guide up some time ago- it is easily accessible from the home page side bar:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...-workflows.htm

I highly recommend using the "search" function at the site here with what you seek to learn...The forums date back at least 6 years and all the questions/answers/posts are archived. There's an absolute treasure trove of info to be mined there! Excellent teaching and resource tool, check it out!
Hope this helps you...
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  #5  
04-19-2011, 07:59 PM
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If you like that workflows guide now, you're going to be blown away by the one being developed for v3 of this site. That will be one of the earliest updates given sometime in May/June. The 'Understanding Your Source' guide is also being expanded considerably, along with a gigantic restoration FAQ/intro guide.

Stay tuned.

Some of the most advanced restoration techniques are only going to be available to Premium Members, in the Premium Member forum.
So both of you have something nifty to look forward to.

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  #6  
04-19-2011, 09:55 PM
littlebrother littlebrother is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyfan View Post
I highly recommend using the "search" function at the site here with what you seek to learn...The forums date back at least 6 years and all the questions/answers/posts are archived. There's an absolute treasure trove of info to be mined there! Excellent teaching and resource tool, check it out!
Hope this helps you...
Yes, I always try search first but you don't always get the answer that way. For example, look at the question I started this thread with. I did read the guide and followed the instructions but they turned out to be the wrong instructions.

I'm not disappointed by that, the information is there for free and guides get outdated, but without asking the question here I would have been stumped. Asking the question sorted it out quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyfan View Post
The editor drew this guide up some time ago- it is easily accessible from the home page side bar:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...-workflows.htm
And a good basic guide it is, but it doesn't answer my question, if re-encoding is necessary.

I had a look at the Video Guides > DVD Authoring > Introduction and also found this thread and I must admit I do get a bit lost, not least because Corel's own web site and renaming of products makes it hard to understand what's going on.

So I'm afraid I have to keep asking questions, if that's all right.

From my present level of knowledge I see it as this.

1. I have a mpeg file and would like to burn a DVD from it. To do that I need an authoring software, but is there one that doesn't re-encode it? If so which ones would you recommend?

2. I have a non-mpeg and would like to burn a DVD from it. In this case encoding as well as authoring needs to be done. What workflow and software world you suggest here?

I don't know if Corel still sell Ulead DVD Workshop 2 which is recommended in the thread I linked to. It looks like it on some parts of their site but not on other parts.

I do have Ulead Movie Factory 6 and could upgrade to Version 7 if you recommend it.

Quote:
If you like that workflows guide now, you're going to be blown away by the one being developed for v3 of this site. That will be one of the earliest updates given sometime in May/June. The 'Understanding Your Source' guide is also being expanded considerably, along with a gigantic restoration FAQ/intro guide.

Stay tuned.
Looking forward to that!
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  #7  
04-19-2011, 10:05 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlebrother View Post
This editing without re-encoding is a very good thing which leads to a follow-up question although I will let you decide if it merits its own thread.

If I don't want to do anything with the now edited segment other than burn it to a new DVD, is it possible to do that without re-encoding and if so what software can handle that? I mean it sort of already is encoded for DVD purposes, isn't it, and the less processing you have to do the better.

I do have DVD authoring applications, some paid for and some free-ware but I'm not sure if anyone of them would do that or if re-encoding is still necessary.
MPEG-VCR joins separate clips without re-encoding. I used it on the footage from my sister's tapeless JVC Everio camcorder (which creates DVD-Video spec MPEG2). So far its the only program I have found that will join several MPEG-2 files to one without re-encoding AND write out the proper time code for the entire merged file.

Most other free MPEG "joiners" literally do that. You get a file that behaves in weird ways in media players (the scroll bar at the bottom usually doesn't work) and DVD Workshop 2 chokes on them as well. The resulting DVDs act in strange ways.
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  #8  
04-19-2011, 10:16 PM
littlebrother littlebrother is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
MPEG-VCR joins separate clips without re-encoding.
Yes I know, and I successfully did just that with a little help from the good people here at digitalfaq, but if you read my question again it was about making a DVD of it without re-encoding the file I got from MPEG-VCR.
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  #9  
04-19-2011, 10:38 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlebrother View Post
Yes I know, and I successfully did just that with a little help from the good people here at digitalfaq, but if you read my question again it was about making a DVD of it without re-encoding the file I got from MPEG-VCR.
If the file is DVD-Video compliant, normally DVD authoring programs leave the video untouched without re-encoding. In DVD Workshop 2, you have to explicitly check off an option labeled "Convert to Disc Template" if you want it to re-encode a file thats already DVD-Video ready.
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  #10  
04-20-2011, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
If the file is DVD-Video compliant, normally DVD authoring programs leave the video untouched without re-encoding. In DVD Workshop 2, you have to explicitly check off an option labeled "Convert to Disc Template" if you want it to re-encode a file thats already DVD-Video ready.
That was a good piece of advice. I had a look in Ulead Movie Factory 6 and in the project settings I found a Do not convert compliant MPEG files option. It was unchecked so I checked it.

There was also a Two-pass conversion option just below it. I left that checked because if it's not an MPEG file I do want it to be two-pass as I suspect that gives a better quality result.

Then I started the burning (or rather creation of an ISO file). However this took just as long as it usually does so I cancelled, went back and unchecked the Two-pass option and this time it was much quicker, like 3-4 minutes.

Don't understand why it does a Two-pass conversion when it supposed to do none at all. A bit contradictory I think.

This advice more or less solves my first question but I'm still interested in the answer to the second one.

Since authoring in my case can be done with Ulead Movie Factory 6 what remains of the second question is what software you recommend for converting non-MPEG files to MPEG files.
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  #11  
04-20-2011, 12:59 PM
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If you want to add some forum smilies, I'll be glad to add them.

Just small ones, like you've been using. Just the few good ones you like most -- don't drown me. Put them in a RAR or ZIP file, attach to a post, and I'll enter them. I'll admit, you have some rather good/useful ones so far. That'll eliminate the need to link to those photobucket/imgshack type sites, which are known to delete files at a whim. (Then this site will have a bunch of broken img links.)

Quote:
left that checked because if it's not an MPEG file I do want it to be two-pass as I suspect that gives a better quality result.
Ulead uses a rather minimalist SDK of MainConcept encoder. While MC itself is good, you'll always be better pre-encoding video to proper DVD-Video MPEG-2 format in something before authoring software gets hold of it. Best to manually tweak settings for quality, as opposed to letting software do whatever it wants. Remember computers can't see visual quality, so it can botch a video and never know different. "One size fits" all encoding methods fail probably 50% or more of the time, in terms of image QC.

Quote:
or rather creation of an ISO file
Wise move. Use ImgBurn to burn the actual DVDs.

--- I suddenly feel the urge to use some of those new smilies already.

Quote:
Don't understand why it does a Two-pass conversion when it supposed to do none at all. A bit contradictory I think.
Chalk it up to lousy programming. That setting may just override the other one. Disabling both is probably the best course of action.

Quote:
what software you recommend for converting non-MPEG files to MPEG files
Two bits of info are needed:

(1) What is the source? -- Something you swiped from Youtube, downloaded off something shady (no details, please), came out of your AVC camera, your DV camera, captures from a VCR, etc.

(2) Budget? I always go for the most cost effective solutions. Sometimes that's free, sometimes it's $2,000.

And then (3), bonus question, How impatient are you? TMPGEnc Plus, for example, can be quite good for certain uses, but it's not a super-duper fast encoder compared to something like MainConcept Reference. Inversely, some fast cheap encoders lack quality. (Most of them, actually.) My main computer, a laptop, is more or less devoid of video software. It just has a few essentials. Video and audio is on other systems (desktops, mostly), which can encode all day/night, week long, and I don't much care. I'm in no hurry. It's not like I'm waiting to use the computer for something else. It does what it does, and I do what I do on a separate computer.

So think that over.

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  #12  
04-21-2011, 12:18 AM
littlebrother littlebrother is offline
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@admin

That's a brilliant answer. Well structured, so it forces me to structure my thoughts too. (Not all that easy with my Attention Deficit Disorder. )

I'll be back, though it might take a couple of days or even longer. You won't get rid of me that easy.

I'll come back to you about the smiles too.


So I have given it some thought and tried to structure my answer accordingly.

Sources.
  • Most of the ordinary filetypes. (Don't really know the difference between containers and streams. ) WMV, AVI, MPEG, FLV, DVD, MKV, DivX. Basically all the formats you will find on a well-assorted hard-disk today.
  • I have lots of VHS-tapes that I plan to convert into digital form. Bought a DVD-VHS Combo a couple of years back that I intend to use for that purpose.
  • Don't have a video camera but might get one.

Type of editing.
  • Very much the thing I did with MPEG-VCR, cut and paste segments but of course also with other filetypes than MPEG/VOB.
  • Crop the picture area.
  • Adding simple informative "signs" like this. Have only seen it in Windows Movie Maker but I guess other software has it too.
  • Add my own home-made subtitles.
  • I can't see myself do color correction or that type of editing at all. That goes for audio editing too. Just not my thing.

Target not DVD.

If you're not making a DVD what is generally the best filetype considering quality, size and last but not least compatibility, i.e. make it playable on most people's (i.e my non video-savvy friends computers).

Target DVD.
  • Authoring. I have some authoring software but none that I really like. (It might be that I don't understand them.) Not to keen on flashy, animated menus but prefer simple and easily navigated ones. Most of the templates offered are usually of the flashy type.
  • Padding. Generally I like to preserve to original resolution if possible but I'm not sure what technique/software is best best to use.
  • Multiple VTS (Video Title Set). Not sure if I will need that.
  • Speed. Not important, although I do like it if the encoding software offers a batch/cue option so it can work by itself when you have a bit of a shut eye.

Budget.

I feel that professional, very expensive software would be a bit wasted on me, wouldn't understand half the options anyway , so the cheaper, consumer targeted software is probably the way to go for me. Having said that it's still OK with the high-end of the consumer targeted software if you know what I mean.

Here's a list of software I already have. Some I have used very often, some hardly at all. A mixture of paid for and freeware.
  • AVStoDVD
  • Adobe Premiere Elements 2
  • Avi2Dvd
  • Cyberlink PowerDVD9
  • DVD Decrypter
  • DVD Flick
  • DVDFab
  • DVDStyler
  • HandBrake
  • ImgBurn
  • MKVtoolnix
  • MPEG-VCR
  • MagicDisc
  • MagicISO
  • ProtectedSoft Video DVD Maker
  • Slysoft AnyDVD
  • Slysoft CloneDVD2
  • StreamTransport
  • Subtitle Workshop
  • Ulead DVD DiscRecorder
  • Ulead DVD Movie Factory 6
  • VSO ConvertXtoDVD 4
  • VideoDVDMaker
  • Windows DVD Maker
  • Wondershare DVD Converter Ultimate
  • Wondershare Streaming Video Recorder
  • Wondershare Video Converter Ultimate
  • Wondershare Video Studio Express
  • mkv2vob
Quote:
  • Crop the picture area.
I've just read in one of the guides that it is very uncool to crop. You should mask instead.
So make that:
  • Mask the picture area.
My cool factor is now restored.
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  #13  
05-06-2011, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Bought a DVD-VHS Combo a couple of years back that I intend to use for that purpose
These VCRs tend to output terrible pictures and eat tapes. The DVD recorders are almost always junk, too, making lousy low-quality DVDs that look worst than the tape did. What brand/model recorder is this?

Quote:
If you're not making a DVD what is generally the best filetype considering quality, size
H.264 in MP4 or MKV container.

Quote:
compatibility, i.e. make it playable on most people's (i.e my non video-savvy friends computers).
If the worry is friends/family, tell them to download and install VLC media player.
It's freeware.
Windows Media Player is worthless for video playback.

Quote:
Not to keen on flashy, animated menus but prefer simple and easily navigated ones. Most of the templates offered are usually of the flashy type
Excellent. Somebody with design taste. Kudos to you.
As a Premium Member, you'll soon have access to some of our own tasteful and simple templates that we've used for client projects, or even our various personal projects.

Quote:
Adobe Premiere Elements 2
Cyberlink PowerDVD9
DVD Decrypter
ImgBurn
MPEG-VCR
MagicISO
VSO ConvertXtoDVD 4
All useful.
Avidemux is another one you should add.


... will add more later.

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  #14  
05-07-2011, 05:36 AM
littlebrother littlebrother is offline
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I'll wait for your "more later" post before I come with my follow up questions. Just wanted to add that my yet unopened VCR/DVD Combo is Philips DVDR3510v/58 where I think the v/58 part stands for northern Europe.

Here's a short 3-page specification in PDF-format ----> http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/d/d...58_pss_aen.pdf
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