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  #1  
05-05-2022, 01:47 PM
RolfE RolfE is offline
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Hey

I need some input/recommendations on what gear I should buy.
(I am located in Europe, all equipment is PAL)

I am digitizing my mothers collection of tapes.
The majority is 8mm/Hi8/D8 casette tapes, but there are also some VHS.
In order to save money on tapes, some casette tapes were played over to VHS in the early 2000's

I have found/bought the following equipment (prices) :
  • Sony Handycam DCR-TR7000E
  • Panasonic DMR-ES15, with no remote ($25)
  • Datavideo MP-6000 ($140)
  • USB AV GRABBER, model: TV-59 REV B. (unknown brand, possibly Easycrap-clone)
  • Pinnacle Dazzle HW-SET DVC 100 Rev 1.1 ($15)
  • Philips VR860, possibly broken.
  • Computer with Windows Vista and Firewire-port

For the casette tapes I have taken an easy approach and digitalized them through the Sony DCR-TR7000E using Firewire-cable to the computer. I have so far only used the inbuilt Windows-program for importing videos. It rewinded the tapes, started the recording and stopped the recording automatically so it was very convenient. I have done this for around 40 casettes, and have about 20 left.


For the VHS's I am a bit more uncertain about what path to go:

I bought the Datavideo MP-6000, in hopes that it had some TBC-ish effect. gonopilotino's comment in this thread, Datavideo TBC alternatives?, made me optimistic. But I have not been able to test it yet.
I bought the Panasonic DMR-ES15 for its "line-ish" work, but I am still lacking a remote.
My idea is to use the two in the same line. Hopefully their performance combined will be good.
I am basing my hopes on lordsmurf's comment here, where he said that he proposes ES10/15 in combo with DVK. Hopefully Datavideo MP-6000 can be DVK-ish.
(And yes, I need a remote for ES15 )

I do not have a functioning VCR at the moment, and have not time to check out my Philips yet.
I fear that the cheap USB-capture cards may bottleneck the quality, but I am uncertain.

Currently I am looking at a listing from an estate sale where the current equipment are listed:
  • JVC Super VHS HR-S9500 ($60)
  • Panasonic Super VHS NV-825 ($60)
  • JVC Super VHS HR-S6900EH ($60)
  • Pansonic VCR NV-HD680 ($80)
  • Sony Handycam Mini DV DCR-TRV33E ($40)
  • Sony Handycam HD HDR-PJ650E ($150)

All equipment seem to be in good conditions and only one owner.
From the VCR-buying guide and other posts I have found the following:
JVC Super VHS HR-S9500 is dynamic drum, no control over "video filters"
Panasonic NV-825 lacks TBC and DNR
JVC HR-S6900EH lacks TBC as it is 6x000 series, but lordsmurf said it should "only be used for playback" so it can not be that bad? Does it have DNR?
Pansonic VCR NV-HD680, I could not find any information about. It is only normal VHS and not S-VHS though.

I am considering picking up one or two of these VCRs, but I do am not sure which.
Is the prices OK if they are functioning?
What VCR do you recommend?

I also want some input on the best way to digitze the VHS, and possibly the Hi8/8mm if I redo them.
Is it worth it to buy the Sony DCR-TRV33E and use it as a passthrough to firewire? Or is the performance of the USB-capture cards similar or better?
This functionality is discussed in Videohelp and someone said "most here agree that this Sony does have a good TBC which can't be turned on or off".
Another option is getting a PCMIA/Cardbus capture card, Typhoon DVB-T Duo. There is a listing available for $25, but I have not found any reviews so I have not chosen to purcahse it. Do anybody know anything about it? Would it be better than USB-capture cards or miniDV-passthrough?
A fourth possibility using the DVD Recorder function of the Datavideo MP6000. Any options on this?


All input are appreciated
Probably difficult to answer everything, so I welcome theories aswell.
I am currently busy with exams, but plan to spend time in the summer finishing up my project.
Therefore I have not been able to test all the equipment yet, nor tried to repair the Philips VCR.
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  #2  
05-05-2022, 03:19 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Ah, another norwegian. I've seen that listing and have been pondering about picking up one or two of those decks myself

It is a very good deal on the SVHS decks - especially the S9500. Out of those I would go for that one first. For the "video filters" note, the Sx500 JVCs lack the soft/sharp setting of the newer JVCs and only have edit on/off instead. I have both a S8500 and a S8600 and there isn't much difference. I prefer EDIT on/picture control EDIT in either case but ymmv, the extra sharp and soft options on the 8600 are not particularly useful anyhow so it's not really anything to worry about. I guess the one limitation is that it has the sophisticated dynamic drum system which is a bit prone to breaking. The TBC on the JVCs can be a bit hit or miss on jumpy camcorder tapes so in some cases it can be better to let the ES15 deal with it.

For the other models:
I have a 6900EH which I'm trying to fix up. At least on the one I there were bad capacitors in the power supply and possibly elsewhere that needed replacing, so while it might be decent if in good shape, it's quite possible that it would require some service. Can't give a full comment on picture quality yet since the output of mine is very wonky due to bad caps right now. It does not have a TBC though it does have some digital processing but I think it's more limited than in later top of the line models.

NV-HS825 - I have it's bigger brother, the HS870, which is mostly the same but has 3D DNR (which isn't all that effective in my experience). I don't really like the output quality that much whichever picture option used. It does not have an EDIT setting so you are at the mercy of the auto-adjust functionality. Also, at east on my 870 there is something wonky with the dropout compensation (also seen on some of the newer jvcs) causing them to not line up well, not sure if it's just my bad luck or if it's some bad design.

NV-HD680 is a higher end hi-fi model, with some added features including chroma noise reduction and a jog wheel. No idea why they would price it higher than the super-vhs decks.. It would be ok as a backup deck I suppose, though there are cheaper options for that.


Philips VR860 - what is possibly broken on it? These Philips decks are pretty nice IMO, well built. I (though avoid the later ones as those were made by Funai and are cost-reduced to crap.) have the VR900 here, though it's very worn. A good backup option if you can get it working. Two common things on these are the automated rubber head cleaning thingy deteriorating which causes it to basically dirty the head whenever you put in a tape, and the loading gear splitting. For the first issue, you can remove the head cleaner pretty easily (held on by a plastic tab), and clean the heads. For the loading gear issue, I have fixed one by using epoxy to glue it to the metal rod, though I haven't used the deck a lot since so no idea how well it will hold. The symptoms are that the VCR is unable to accept the tape.

DCR-TR7000E do well for 8mm tapes.
Sony DCR-TRV33E is ok if you need to transfer miniDV, but otherwise I wouldn't bother, the Digital8 camcorder you have may already do pass-through to firewire if you want to go that route.

I have no idea how well the datavideo dvd recorder works/doesn't work, I tend to just grab the output from dvd-recorders directly. If it works decently you may be able to bypass the ES15 if using the 8mm or JVC SVHS with TBC active as long as the VCR TBC doesn't hiccup.

If you can't find a remote for the ES15 (or one for a related panasonic), these USB programmable universal ones work well, you can get them for cheap new on ebay.

Dazzle may or may not be fine, should be at least as good as going via firewire. There are some differing opinions on capture cards. I use a IO-Data GV USB2 when capturing from s-video but others have other preferences.

My Video gear overview/test/repair/stuff yt channel http://youtu.be/cEyfegqQ9TU
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  #3  
05-05-2022, 05:36 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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About JVC S-VHS HR-S9500, I confirm what hodgey said. I own one, the HR-S9500MS, and it's is an excellent machine!

A channel on S-VHS / VHS capture and AviSynth restoration https://bit.ly/3mHWbkN
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  #4  
06-18-2022, 12:53 PM
RolfE RolfE is offline
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Hey

Thank you for the replies. Here is an update of my progress.

I quickly bought the JVC Super VHS HR-9500 after hodgey and lollo2's comments stating that it was a good machine. The SVHS was in another region of the country and I was hesitant to have it shipped, but luckily some family were able to bring it in their car as they were travelling to that area.
The deck is functiong and I have the remote, but so far I have not had the time to test it thoroughly.

I also bought the Sony Handycam Mini DV DCR-TRV33E. Compared to similar mini-DV listings in Norway on finn.no (online marketplace) I found it relative inexpensive.
A friend of mine is also looking to digitize some miniDV tapes and will probably borrow it.
Passthrough is functioning. As reported by others previously I had to get a "3.5 mm to 3 RCA AV cable" with 4 "rings". This one from Scanpart, Prod no. B430 worked.
Using a normal Stereo to Dual Phono (RCA) cable with 3 rings which resulted in me only getting mono audio (R is missing).
The Sony DCR-TR7000E did not seem to support passthrough. As mentioned by Richard_G this is possibly due to import taxes.

Still not been able to test the Datavideo MP-6000 other than confirming that it will passthrough the signal.
It has some menu options to colour correction (brightness, contrast, colour), but I am unsure if these affect the passthrough.

I did not have to buy a remote for the Panasonic DMR-ES15. My old android phone, Samsung S6, features an IR blaster and after much frustration and testing I found a remote controller app that worked.
The app "irplus- Infrared Remote" has two controllers that must be used in combination to access the necessary menus.
PANASONIC - DMR-BCT73-83 for "Func Menu", to access the function menu where >To Others >Setup ends up in the setup menu to fix other settings.
PANASONC - DMR-EX77 for "Display" button, to access the Line-In NR menu.
This allowed me to setup the recommended passthrough settings from this Videohelp post.

As hodgey suggested, the problem with the Philips VR860 was the "automated rubber head cleaning thingy". After removing this and cleaning the video heads it functioned again. For cleaning I just used normal paper inteded for copying soaked (but not excessive) in isopropanol (Product name BlŚrens). Paper worked for me, allthough not recommended by several.

All 70 tapes of D8/Hi8/8mm have been transfered/captured with the DCR-TR7000E through Firewire. As mentioned previosuly I just used the built-in program in Windows Vista as it was very convenient. The biggest drawback was that it did not report dropped frames.Some errors were discovered right after capture by skimming through the video (likely caused by dropped frames?), using a cleaning casette and transfering/capturing the tape a second time helped against this.
I have understood that optimal workflow of Hi8/8mm tapes involves S-video, TBC and a good capture card, but I am satisfied with the current result.

Next up is experimenting with my current equipment to get the best VHS workflows.
I dualbooted Win7/10 on a old desktop computer with i5-3570 and installed a PCI-E firewire card (Bought three of them plus two USB 3.0 for $22).
Got Virtualdub functioning with lagarith and HuffYUY compression with both the unbranded USB AV GRABBER and the Dazzle DVC 100.

Hope to compare quality of recordings from USB cards and passthrough to DV.
Is it better to use the TBC functionality of the SVHS deck or passthrough the DCR-ES15?
Will also experiment with keeping the MP6000 in and out of the flow.

I find the Restore, Filter, Improve Quality process a bit overwhelming, but has not been able to study it in detail. Selur's hybrid seems like the program I should learn (?)
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  #5  
06-19-2022, 03:32 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
Hope to compare quality of recordings from USB cards and passthrough to DV.
The quality of a good USB capture card is superior to a DV capture, because it allows lossless compression and YUV 4:2:2 color space.


Quote:
Is it better to use the TBC functionality of the SVHS deck or passthrough the DCR-ES15
If the lineTBC of the SVHS VCR s able to provide a stable frame, it is better to use it, because the ES-15 adds a signal manipulation in the flow, with consequently small degradation, and its collateral effect. But is not often the case, it really depends on the condition of the tapes. You have to try both solutions and choose the best.

A channel on S-VHS / VHS capture and AviSynth restoration https://bit.ly/3mHWbkN
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  #6  
06-21-2022, 06:55 AM
enois enois is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RolfE View Post
I have found/bought the following equipment (prices) : [LIST][*]Sony Handycam DCR-TR7000E
DCR-TR7000E is one of those (damned) model that can read analog tape, but have non any kind of TBC/DNR and, in my opinion, this model have no great analog tape playback quality (compared to other Sony Hi8 camera).

In past I wrote a brief list of D8 camera without TBC/DNR function for analog tape.
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  #7  
06-21-2022, 07:14 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Seems it's from the first generation of d8 camcorders yeah, those lack TBC/DNR, good catch. Most of the others on your list are D8 only, I don't think any of the later D8 with analog playback lacked TBC/DNR but don't wanna say for sure. Might still be fine if using the ES15 for stabilization though, think the video circuitry is mostly the same otherwise but YMMV.

My Video gear overview/test/repair/stuff yt channel http://youtu.be/cEyfegqQ9TU
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  #8  
06-22-2022, 07:07 AM
enois enois is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
Most of the others on your list are D8 only, I don't think any of the later D8 with analog playback lacked TBC/DNR but don't wanna say for sure.
Many D8 have TBC/DNR for analog playback, for example:
(NOTE the following list is for PAL CAMERA, so the model number end with an E)
  • DCR-TRV 238/239/340/738 (year 2002)
  • DCR-TRV 120/125/320 (year 2000)
  • DCR-TRV 345/355/320 (year 2003)
  • DCR-TRV 230/235/325/330/430/530 (2001)
  • DCR-TRV 460/461 (2004)
  • DCR-TRV 725/730/828/830 (2001)
  • DCR-TRV 420/520/525/620 (2000)
  • DCR-TRV 720/820 (2000)
  • DCR-TRV 480 (2005)
and yes, to be sure this models have TBC/DNR, I have read many user manuals... (assuming they are correct )

I have found this, but may be there are other models.
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