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11-14-2022, 03:38 PM
DAG_DAG DAG_DAG is offline
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Hello, I have tapes where these problems can be seen, but on the same tape there may be fragments that look good and others that don't.As I see that sometimes in the same video it doesn't always happen, why does it happen now if not now?Is it a recording problem, playback setting... ?


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  #2  
11-14-2022, 08:07 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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What's your playback and capture hardware?

https://www.youtube.com/user/latoak34/videos
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  #3  
11-15-2022, 04:47 AM
DAG_DAG DAG_DAG is offline
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Umatic 9850P to Panasonic WJ AVE5 (because of the TBC that he carries) and Osprey 260e
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  #4  
11-15-2022, 10:21 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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Try without the Panasonic.

https://www.youtube.com/user/latoak34/videos
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  #5  
11-15-2022, 10:45 AM
DAG_DAG DAG_DAG is offline
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Without Panasonic I have many drops, the tapes have many fragments without a video signal and in the end it gets very out of sync.
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  #6  
11-15-2022, 11:20 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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Never captured uMatic but you would probably need a pro TBC that uses the DUB connector, Colin did few videos about the format, this is one of them. Also the capture card you have may not be the right choice.

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  #7  
11-15-2022, 05:14 PM
DAG_DAG DAG_DAG is offline
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Why do you think the Osprey is not suitable?
It is better than the typical domestic USB
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  #8  
11-15-2022, 06:20 PM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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It's a bit hard to see on the pictures, would be easier if you could take a proper screenshot or frame of the video rather than a phone photo of the screen. Black/white streaks on transitions between dark/white areas can indicate worn (or worse damaged heads but then you would probably get more of it), some adjustments being a bit off, or it could be the signal level on tape is pretty weak (or worse some bad vcr components). I'm not all that familiar with the behaviour of u-matic specifically so don't know how common streaking like this is on those. Also looking a bit like there is some noise/interference on the right of the image on the first screenshot as well.

Capture card is prob fine, the AWE5 helps with stabilization though they are a bit primitive and don't have the fanciest Y/C separation circuitry so for the best quality you may want a fancier TBC unit or optimally some setup with the dub connectors though that can be hard to find/expensive. Don't think the mixer is what's causing the streaks though.

My Video gear overview/test/repair/stuff yt channel http://youtu.be/cEyfegqQ9TU
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  #9  
11-16-2022, 03:53 AM
DAG_DAG DAG_DAG is offline
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Thanks for the detailed explanation. I'll try to take a screenshot the next time I get an issue.
I know that the player is old and with its wear and tear.
Regarding the transitions from dark to light, the interferences do not always occur, I can have fragments where they occur and others that do not, on the same tape, if it were a problem of heads, adjustments... would always happen, right?
The tapes are Ampex, the ones that are giving me the most problems, Sony's are good at the moment.
Getting a professional TBC is expensive and they are not easily found, it is not for professional use, it is for "private" use.
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  #10  
11-16-2022, 05:51 AM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAG_DAG View Post
Regarding the transitions from dark to light, the interference do not always occur, I can have fragments where they occur and others that do not, on the same tape, if it were a problem of heads, adjustments... would always happen, right?
It would probably indicate that the signal on tape may be weak at least yeah. How best to deal with that on u-matic I don't know for sure though, don't have much experience with that format.
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  #11  
11-16-2022, 06:25 AM
DAG_DAG DAG_DAG is offline
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I have to say that I am not an expert, but basically the concept of an analog video is the same regardless of the format, umatic, beta, vhs... I think so ��
I no longer go into more modern equipment that can follow the video signal for self-adjustment, Hifi audio, etc...
Audio track, CTL and video.
Problems that I have detected in the copies that I have been able to make:
Ampex tapes, loss of magnetism and need to bake the tapes, they squeak, they stop.
With Sony I have found few problems.
3M loss of magnetism.
Other problems have been caused by the bad archiving of the tapes: fungus...

-- merged --

I think many problems are due to the equipment that was used to record, I mean "the brand". Sony, Panasonic, JVC...
Some problem with the mechanical adjustments, this problem has given me many problems with DAT tapes, depending on the equipment with which it was recorded, later on playback it gives a lot of failures
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  #12  
11-16-2022, 09:40 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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Ampex tape longevity proven to be a disaster, I experienced the same with DDS data tapes (DAT for audio), There are also reports at HiFi forums that reel to reel audio tapes, audio compact cassettes, reel to reel video tapes and some other audio and video formats have failed over the years. When you see Ampex logo, get ready for dirty work.

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  #13  
11-23-2022, 12:10 PM
keaton keaton is offline
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My first reaction is the same as hodgey, i.e. low tape signal would explain the lack of a stable frame, as well as some video dropouts (the horizontal streaks in the last picture).

I have very limited experience with Umatic. I used a Sony VO-9600 (NTSC) and tried a 3M, a Sony, and an AGFA tape. All were early/mid 1980s stock. 3M didn't need baking (i.e. no sticky shed), but had very low signal, consistent with what I've heard before. I could see this when connecting from player straight to TV. The picture wasn't stable (rolling) or would have flagging (the curvature along the top shown in your 1st pic). My player had a Skew lever, and so i tried that on the strongest setting (forgetting now whether that was to the left or right), but it didn't help much. I thought that lever might help increase tape tension on the video drum to get a slight signal improvement. A youtuber gave me that idea.

As mentioned on the board over the years, the Panasonic DMR-ES10 or ES15 are great to help reduce/remove flagging. I think the board has said before that the ES10 may be the strongest of the two models. I've also heard on the board that these 2 models are the strongest TBC-like devices in the DVD recorder pass through category. So perhaps an ES10 or 15 could improve your situation. I've heard they have PAL versions of these models. I tried a DataVideo TBC with it first, but it did not help as much as the ES10 did for me. I was very impressed with the fact that the ES10 was able to better stabilize things than the DataVideo. Not perfect, because the picture would have some vertical jitter, which can happen with any TBC or TBC-like device (such as ES10/ES15) that is trying to re-establish the timing on a very bad signal. But, being my first time with Umatic, I was surprised how much better the ES10 did than the DataVideo TBC. I'm not an expert, but perhaps the DataVideo is not really meant for Umatic. I didn't pursue getting a proper broadcast style TBC that would be used with these players in broadcast environments.

The Sony tape had a wax crayon smell, which is a telltale sign for Sony tapes that it needs baking to temporarily undo the Sticky Shed. I didn't have to bake it long. It was a mild case. The AGFA was not successful after many hours of baking. I may not have done it at a high enough temp or long enough. I abandoned it. I've heard they can be similar to Ampex in their level of degradation and need for prolonged baking.

Again, a small sample size, just relaying my experiences.
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  #14  
11-23-2022, 12:27 PM
DAG_DAG DAG_DAG is offline
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Thanks for the answers.
Based on the results that I am getting and the comments, I can assure you that the tape brand influences a lot, each brand has its formulations, even if they do the same, the result is not, as Pepsi and Cola... ��
The loss of the magnetism of the signal over the years is evident, in some tapes more than in others. And also if the player is in a hurry or not.
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