Hi8 to digital lordsmurf workflow setup usage?

[roberthartman]

I need to transfer some Hi8 tapes to digital and bought some equipment from lordsmurf (a "workflow") and am ready to dive in. I have most of the hardware but no idea how to use it, so I'll list questions below about my overall setup. My original post from the start of my journey with this stuff is here. My goal is to get everything I have transferred, then resell the stuff I bought from lordsmurf.

This is what I have
- Sony CCD-TRV68 NTSC camcorder (I have two now, the buttons on the one we recorded the tapes with are not responsive, so I bought another one on Ebay.)
- Pinnacle 510-USB and USB cable from lordsmurf. I think this is referred to as the "capture card".
- DataVideo blue TBC with s-video and it's power cable from lordsmurf. This thing was expensive and is a little bit of a black box to me. Lordsmurf set it up for me, putting electrical tape over various ports on it to make it clear I shouldn't use them, and he probably did some other setup.
- A laptop PC with Windows 10 that I installed Windows 7 on. I posted what I learned here

I installed VirtualDub on the PC, copying in the 4 files here. I had trouble getting VirtualDub to recognize the Pinnacle capture card because I did not have the correct driver installed. I removed the incorrect driver and found a list from lordsmurf here, and I installed the Windows 7 64 bit one.

I ran a test, turning on the camera and capturing its video stream, plugging in my Sony camera directly to the Pinnacle with the 3.5mm to Red/White/Yellow output cable from the camera - thankfully, it worked! This is what I did via the VirtualDub menu:
- File --> Capture AVI -> File --> Set capture file (enter a filename)
- Device --> Select "Pinnacle 510-USB (DirectShow)" (The Pinnacle did not show up here until I corrected the driver issue).
- Capture --> Capture video ... Stop Capture

So here are my questions, finally.

1. Should I use two S-video cables to connect the camera, TBC and Pinnacle capture card?

2. How do I get audio out of the camera? Run the 3.5mm to Red/White RCA cable directly from the camera to the Pinnacle card?

3. Would it be like this?
- Camera S-Video out to TBC's "CAM IN" S-Video jack
- Camera's 3.5mm to Red/White RCA cable plugged directly into the Pinnacle's Red/White audio inputs (skipping the TBC... which I guess makes sense since audio isn't the thing that gets corrected by the TBC)
- Connect another S-Video from TBC "Output S(Y/C)" to the S-Video input on the front of the Pinnacle
- Pinnacle connected to Win7 PC with USB cable.

4. What about VirtualDub settings? Is there a set of options that will work best?

5. It looks like VirtualDub will generate .avi files. Should I convert those to some other format or just save them off in the end as is?

6. When I capture my tapes for real, do I simply start the capture in VirtualDub, play the tape on the camera, and then stop the capture once the tape is done? I guess this has to be sort of a manual, hands on process in order to stop the capture without capturing way past the end of the tape? Is there a better way to manage this?

7. Once done with my Hi8s, if I want to transfer VHS tapes, will I want to use a different TBC? Will this one work in a pinch?

Thanks for the help!

[lordsmurf]

Let's slow start this:
Does the camera have s-video out? (If you don't see it, verify in user manual. The ports are often not together.)

Note: For those following along, this a budget workflow with a TBC(ish), which should work decently for this exact person, in this exact scenario, with his exact sources. Remember, video is not one-size-fits-all, though you do need to be using quality/recommended gear (either at the budget end, or the higher end).

[roberthartman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Let's slow start this:
Does the camera have s-video out? (If you don't see it, verify in user manual. The ports are often not together.)

Yes it has S Video Out.

[lordsmurf]

Excellent.

Yes, your DVK is modded/preset. And yes, this piece of gear can be confusing, so I cover ports that should not be used, for your exact needs, and for each exact unit (as several versions exist). I try to be the "easy button" for folks like yourself.

Yes, that's the capture card. As with the DVK, there are versions, and you have a good one.

Yes, use all s-video. Workflow = camera with line TBC > budget frame TBC(ish) > capture card

Audio routes directly from camera to capture card. TBCs do not process audio. (That said, some TBCs do delay, so audio pass is required, which delays it as well. But this is trivia here, does not apply to your situation. Just stated for anybody else reading this.)

Yes, camera to DVK input, output to capture card.

Yes, follow the guide, paying attention to my notes. My notes override sanlyn.
https://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/vid...-settings.html

Install the lossless codec Huffyuv. If installl issues, try the hofmand MSI installer:
https://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/vid...html#post86174
Install the 32-bit version, regardless of OS x64.
If still issues, install Lagarith instead.

Now you have lossless AVI. So yes, you capture lossless AVI. Part of this was in the sanlyn guide.

In VirtualDub capture mode, under Capture menu, the Stop Conditions can stop after a set time. For 2 hours and a bit extra (as tapes were never strict 2 hours long), it's 7600 seconds. Double for LP, triple for SLP/EP.

The DVK (when modded/preset, not stock) is a budget TBC(ish). Not a true TBC, just sorta-kinda. It contains a weaker frame TBC, but the goal of it is to assist the internal operation of the DVK. It's not there for you, not for your external tape sources. But you can try to force it, and it can work with varying degrees of success. It's not foolproof. Hence the (ish). It will work for some % of tapes. It does have some side effects, as do all budget TBC(ish). With a quality with-TBC camera, and a quality with-TBC S-VHS VCR, you'll get a decent experience. I generally discuss individual needs with somebody before selling them these units, to make sure it's viable in the scenario. Sometimes it is, sometimes not. For you, obviously it was determined to be viable, otherwise I'd not have sold it to you. I want my gear to be properly used, and for the buyer to have a good experience with it.

Did that answer everything?

You seem to be fine now. Happy capturing.

[roberthartman]

Just a couple questions left:

Do I need to buy high end S Video cable, gold plated or whatever? It seems like that might be overkill.

4. What about VirtualDub settings? Is there a set of options that will work best?

5. It looks like VirtualDub will generate .avi files. Should I convert those to some other format or just save them off in the end as is?

7. Once done with my Hi8s, if I want to transfer VHS tapes, will I want to use a different TBC? Will this one work in a pinch?

[lordsmurf]

Yes, buy s-video cables if needed. No, not gold plated, nothing fancy. Cables just needs quality shielding. But "the 3 bears" applies: not too much, not too little, but just right. Fat header thick cables from "brand names" like Monster are crap. Thin flimsy Chinese shoelaces from eBay/Amazon are crap (noting that eBay/Amazon does have acceptable cables as well, just not the cheapies).

For VirtualDub, follow the guide. If problems, ask specifics then.

The lossless AVI files are for your permanent archives (large HDD, backed up or duped), for "working with" (such as encoding to watchable files). You cannot watch lossless files on anything but a computer. Encoding to "watch ready files" is another discussion for after your captures are done.

Same TBC(ish) may work "in a pinch". VHS is not Hi8. While Hi8 is more drop-happy (dropped frames), the signal tends to be better for TBCs to work with. VHS is just so erratic, chaotic, very case by case, in terms of how powerful the TBC needs to be.

[roberthartman]

lordsmurf, I'm having a problem with the S video connection. I'm connecting the camera directly to the Pinnacle as a test. I have a good connection using the red/white/yellow cable, but not with the S video cable. It seems either the Pinnacle S-video input is bad, or the S-video output on the camera is bad. I've tried two S video cables, both brand new.

Assuming S video out on the camera is bad, then I need to plug into the TBC-ish using red/write/yellow, but I don't see how to do that (maybe those ports are taped over). If the S video input on the Pinnacle is bad, I need a replacement. Or I need a way to get from TBC-ish to red/white/yellow.

[lordsmurf]

Bad as in "missing" signal? If so, then you simply need Crossbar Thing to swap input from default composite to s-video.
See here: https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...html#post58837

In Win7/8/10/11, certain cards cannot have the input source changed in VirtualDub. It needs to be done in Crossbar Thing, then open VirtualDub afterwards. With this exact card, you also need to use Preview (Video>) in VirtualDub capture mode, not the default Overlay.

[roberthartman]

Yes I would say missing/no signal. I've found I had to install .NET in order to run CrossBar Thing, pretty sure I got it here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/down....aspx?id=17718

In Crossbar Thing I had to select "Pinnacle 510-USB Controller", then click "Open Selected Crossbar", then select "1: Video SVideo In" and I believe I checked "Link Related Streams". It seemed like I had to try this a couple times, but I'm pleased to say it ended up working and my first tape is being transferred right now.

All these installations are a pain because I do not want to hook the Windows 7 PC up to the internet, so I'm transferring over via thumb drive. It sure would be nice if these tools ran on a modern OS. I have to say, this is a large number of hoops to jump through. I definitely appreciate all the help, but I did not foresee this many hours just getting everything up and running.

Somewhere along the line I learned that Windows 7 was better than Windows 10 for my situation. Is that true? Is there nothing available on MacOS?

[aramkolt]

Editing prior comment - for me, the DV capture was being deinterlaced by VLC and the Huffyuv was not. I thought that was a big component of why the Huffyuv looked better. Lemme try deinterlacing both with QTGMC and seeing if that shows as much of a difference between the two. I'll post the two samples back here in a bit

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roberthartman

All these installations are a pain because I do not want to hook the Windows 7 PC up to the internet, so I'm transferring over via thumb drive.

That's what most of us do.

Quote:

It sure would be nice if these tools ran on a modern OS.

You have it backwards. It would be nice if each new OS would quit rejecting perfectly functional software. The software isn't the problem, the OS is. Modern OS are for Youtube, Facebook and Zoom, and treat all videos like webcams.

Quote:

Somewhere along the line I learned that Windows 7 was better than Windows 10 for my situation. Is that true?

Yes.

Quote:

Is there nothing available on MacOS?

No. (Well, pre-10.14.)