Ready to capture VHS, SVHS?

[Gary34]

Your TV can handle interlaced footage. VLC can handle interlaced footage. YouTube can’t. You don’t have to upscale for YouTube but it does help.

[Stef01]

Allright. Thanks for your comments and link. You both have a little bit of other flow, but that doesn't bother me.

@Gary34 So if you edit in Premiere Pro, do you use the (deinterlaced if necessary) lossless HufYUV 422 codec? 7jlong uses uncompressed, do you edit straight HuffYUV422 in Premiere? Or what kind of codec comes out of Hybrid before editing? Can the Premiere Pro software handle it?

I read that people also convert to virtually lossless ProRes422 from Hybrid to edit in a Win10 environment with Premiere Pro. Probably to shrink the file size?

[Gary34]

It’s 4:1:1 for PAL. YUV can be 4:4:4 but that doesn’t pertain to this.

Quote:

Or what kind of codec comes out of Hybrid before editing?

Hybrid Can output a lot of different codecs.

This is probably really confusing getting all of these new concepts all at once.

I would look up aspect ratio, color space, and lossless vs lossy compression.

[lordsmurf]

What's 4:1:1 PAL? (Nothing that I'm aware of.)

Also note, many media players, especially smart TVs, do not deinterlace interlaced H.264.

[Stef01]

@Gary34 Sure, but in your case, what kind of file will you retrieve out of Hybrid? A HuffYUV 4:2:2 lossless file, (deinterlaced or not) to edit in Premiere Pro? Can you answer on that?

7jlong uses the uncompressed AVI to edit.

@Lordsmurf Your workflow is deinterlacing with QTGMC in Hybrid to create an intermediate file. And that intermediate file, will you save it out of Hybrid as a lossless HuffYUV 422 already color converted to RGB for editing in Premiere Pro for Win10? (The goal is watching edited videos delivered out of Premiere Pro as H264 on a modern TV).

Or what kind of lossless or virtual lossless codec would you derive from Hybrid as intermediate video file for PAL editing?

[Gary34]

Quote:

Sure, but in your case, what kind of file will you retrieve out of Hybrid? A HuffYUV 4:2:2 lossless file, (deinterlaced or not) to edit in Premiere Pro? Can you answer on that?

I don’t use Premier.

Quote:

What's 4:1:1 PAL? (Nothing that I'm aware of.)

You’re correct. https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...bsampling.html

Quote:

Also note, many media players, especially smart TVs, do not deinterlace interlaced H.264.

I’ve heard that Mpeg 2 is better for interlaced content because of the way it compresses.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stef01

@Lordsmurf Your workflow is

I don't have a single workflow. What I do entirely depends on the project needs.

For example
- sometimes I pre-process for an NLE, and it may (or may not) include deinterlace step
- sometimes, it remains interlaced.
- sometimes, no NLE is involved at all, merely archiving with VirtualDub and Avisynth

So ... it depends.

[Stef01]

@Lordsmurf But what is your advice in my case?

The goal is watching edited videos delivered out of Premiere Pro as H264 on a modern TV.

What kind of lossless or virtual lossless codec would you derive (in my case) from Hybrid as intermediate video file for PAL editing in Premiere Pro?

Capture HuffYUV 4:2:2 interlaced, I agree.

Intermediate file format from Hybrid?? It almost seems a secret.

[7jlong]

All I can offer is that I don't open Hybrid until after I've finished editing and have a final file. Then, if I wanted a (relatively) foolproof streaming file, only then would I deinterlace in Hybrid and create an H.264 file.

But for generating your intermediate editing file, another application to look at if you haven't already is VirtualDub2. IMPORTANT: this is not at all a replacement for VirtualDub. They are different beasts, with different purposes. But have a look, it may help you resolve your workflow and intermediate format decisions. I find it quite useful for certain tasks.

What format for your intermediates? You'll find many opinions. Your priority is a format that allows clean editing - not all do, due to how they structure the data. Premiere tries to make you forget that some codecs are problematic for editing, but they are. I would do my best to avoid editing in H.264, for example.

Many people are happy with ProRes as an editing codec, though it has its detractors, like anything. You may have to do a bit of experimentation with a few different options to find out how any one choice mixes with the footage you're dealing with.

Note also that I am the kind of person who does not like to do a lot of image processing/cleanup/etc between capture and intermediate file - I leave that for later.

[lordsmurf]

I'm still not 100% clean on the goals of the project. I know it wasn't in the 1st post, and I just scanned the rest.

I'm not a colorspace purist. Sometimes we don't have a choice in what happens. All we can do is attempt to mitigate it. So, for example, I'd convert to RGB in Avisynth (encoding out RGB Huffyuv or Lagarith) before feeding to Premiere.

For pre-process steps, or intermediary -- essentially non-final steps -- I just use Avisynth with AvsPmod, encoding the .avs file in VirtualDub. For me, that's way easier.

Premiere can import and export other codecs fine, when installed. The colorspace is often the problem.

H.264 (AVC, AVCHD) is a shooting source format, but it often also exists as 4:2:2 and with clean source. Used for conversion, it trips over noise, creating blurry mush. So it's not that it can't be used, but shouldn't. H.264 is intended for delivery/final encode, not source or the middle processing steps.

7jlong has a good process for his needs. I don't do what he exactly does, and then you may not either. But it is good to understand why choices are made for workflow processing, as you shouldn't be too far away.

- For pure archive, I capture Huffyuv, VirtualDub scrub and output (sometimes Stream Copy, sometimes Full Process with filters). Then done, Huffyuv retained.
- Sometimes I encode MPEG-2 interlaced for DLNA (like for my cartoon/TV hobby) and/or delivery.
- But for Youtube, I have to deinterlace, upscale. And if I'm doing editing/documentary work, mixed sources (new HD, old SD), then I have to do those steps before NLE.
- ...and there are many others, such as restoration.

So ... again ... it depends.

What, precisely, are you aiming to achieve here?

@Gary34, 4:2:2 can also be RGB. Sampling isn't colorspace. But most of us learned about sampling with YUV, as did I (many decades ago). Bit depth is another separate concept with overlap.

[Stef01]

Thanks for your reply @Lordsmurf and @7jlong.

What I try to achieve is an easy way to create the best intermediary file for editing in Premiere Pro and afterwards export it there to H264. It's all a labyrinth for me.

7jlong is editing in uncompressed AVI, I think it will eat too much drive space for me. But of course, in his flow, the drive space will be okay, because of the instant cuts.

AvsPmod, I will try it, thanks. What about ProRes422, as 7jlong also mentioned? Is that also an option for NLE in Win10, or will it loose quality on color for example? And last but not least, what about HuffYUV lossless as an intermediary file?

My circle is almost round now. Thank you guys for your help and patience. I'm a newbie in this and I'm just looking for a perfect fit as intermediary NLE file. But as I understand, perfect fit is not that easy.

[lordsmurf]

ProRes422 is really for Mac editing, not Windows. If Windows, just use standard Huffyuv lossless. Note that current Premiere will need the 64-bit installed 32-bit/x86 Huffyuv. Not the 64-bit Huffyuv (never use it), but the 32-bit installed for 64-bit apps like Premiere. Understand? Use the hofmand installers.

There's really no reason to use uncompressed. I probably know why 7jlong did: resources. Older systems sometimes had issues crunching lossless fast enough for the timeline. I used uncompressed for a tedious Premiere project back in 2005, maybe a few others times since.

AvsPmod is really just the GUI for Avisynth, to help you write and see live results.

As far as deeinterlacing before, or after, the NLE (Premiere), it really depends on what you're doing. If your "edit" is just scissors to lop/rearrange footage, then you could just use VirtualDub (and leave interlaced). If you plan lots of fancy effects, then you either must pay attention to interlacing, or deinterlace as you initially planned.

There's no one correct answer.
There are many bad answers. I don't see any of those in this thread.

[7jlong]

Well, my interest in uncompressed did indeed start long ago (30 years, I just realized - ugh) when the concept was just another tool in the toolbox to try to get acceptable video out of a PowerMac 8500/120. Uncompressed 320x240 gray scale captures could actually yield full motion, which was incredibly exciting in 1995. Those were the days! (it was arty farty art school stuff I was making, not tape capture for accurate reproduction).

Luckily resource issues are long, long since behind me, so at this point it’s like mountain climbing. I can edit uncompressed, so I do. It’s also a leftover neurosis from endless photo work - no compression allowed there unless I need to make a JPEG of a final file for some reason.

I would also never dream of trying to work uncompressed on anything over SD resolution.

Yet.

[Stef01]

@Lordsmurf

Okay, I understand the need of the Hoffmand installer. So I resume my flow:

Capture: HuffYUV4:2:2 lossless interlaced 720x576 AVI

Intermediary: HuffYUV 4:2:2 lossless interlaced or deinterlaced 720x576 AVI

Hybrid actions:
- Deinterlace
- Color Convert to RGB (but stay in the HuffYUV 4:2:2 codec?)
- Eventually denoise, etc.

NLE
Premiere Pro in Windows 10
- RGB Color correction
- Trimming and editing
- Output in delivery format H264 (for watching on a modern 16:9 TV)

Now (hopefully) my final questions:
1. After color converting (in Hybrid) to RGB, I stay in the HuffYUV 4:2:2 lossless codec? So RGB color in a HuffYUV 4:2:2 codec?
2. Some filters in VirtualDub are RGB? Will they affect the HuffYUV 4:2:2 file? Probably not after the RGB color conversion?
2. Will Premiere Pro handle the (in Hybrid) RGB color converted file in the (Hoffmand installer) HuffYUV 4:2:2 lossless file correct without clipping the original converted YUV colors? Will the original YUV colors be affected here? I just don't want to lose YUV color quality after all those time absorbing steps.


Thanks in advance!