I happened across a post from someone in my area asking for help on where they could send this 1 VHS tape they have that has sever degradation of the film strip/coating itself.
After I poo-poo'd 1 person's recommendation to send this tape to local photo person x with a whole whopping 300ish likes on some social media site, I gave them some general info and went about my day. They contacted me later to thank me, but also to admit that they had had no luck at all even getting decent information or advice from the many places they had already called.
I was glad to hear that most were honest enough to admit that the problem was beyond them, but I wasn't aware yet just how bad the situation was. AKA, the state of the tapes magnetic coating. What I had originally described to the OP as a recovery, not a transfer, turned out to be what I now would almost call a forensic level recovery.
I've heard of this happening, but I (thankfully) have never run into it myself. Where the tape was visible, if the protecting lid is lifted up, parts of the entire coating had started to completely flake off the tape. I had actually forgotten that the tapes were clear with the coating removed... heh
I'm including a couple of photos, but basically, this is probably about as bad as it can get without it also being covered in mould on top of the flaking. They have no idea what condition the parts of the tape hidden in the wound up reel are in, only what can be seen in the photos. The biggest thing's I wanted to get across to them right away was to not send it to anyone in this area. That, and don't even touch the damn thing!
They're willing to discuss the problem, and the high cost of the attempt with a company, but where in the hell would you even send a tape like this?
FYI, they are aware that this may be a fools errand.
They aren't clients of mine. I simply happened upon their post requesting help. They don't care about the cost in any sense that a regular client would, so they're prepared for that. They also don't care where it is that they need to send it. They want to try to salvage what they can in the best way possible.
Where do I suggest they turn to?
Thanks everyone. LS. I hope you're doing well, or at least as well as old people like us can be.
Oh dear, quite the pickle. Perhaps this is a case of Sticky Shed Syndrome.. you know what tape brand it is? Heard it is pretty much a given these days on Ampex 189 and BASF branded tapes from the 80s. I myself avoid doing these specific brands of tape (Well, BASF in general just to be safe) as I don't want to ruin my equipment. Unlike with mold or crinkles, I think SSS is hard to notice before it gets bad.
LS himself recommends Spec Bros for this sort of task.
The reality is, all the area affected with flaking needs to be spliced off, Such affected area can never be recovered for two simple reasons, One, the player cannot get a picture with the heads being clogged up instantly from the loose magnetic material, which could also lead to head damage. Two, even if the flaking is cleaned off, the remaining magnetic area cannot make a stable frame by looking at those pictures, frame stability is dependent on magnetic signals recorded across the entire tape surface, You have VBI along the edges of the magnetic tape, the HBI almost everywhere on the tape (250 to 300 spots on each track filed depends on the color format) plus the sync pulses at the bottom edge of the tape for capstan to drum synchronization.
After splicing, assuming there is some tape left without any physical damage worth recovering, It needs to go through a baking process first, then physically inspected for flaking, if no flaking is found then it's safe to put into a VCR, it will still clog the VCR, so frequent cleaning is needed so this first pass capture has to be done in segments.
A second pass capture is done after securing the first pass capture, but this time after cleaning the tape to see if there is any improvement leads to more data recovery that wasn't possible in the first pass, note this step can make things worse, this is why a capture right after baking is crucial.
After that, it's all computer work trying to put the bits and pieces together to make a final footage. But the success really depends on the condition of the tape.
In the USA at least, Specs Bros have long been top tier in tape recovery. They were pioneers in this field. If anyone has the needed skills and the specialised equipment and techniques it's probably them. Obviously there is a limit to what anybody can do with a given tape but your best chances are with those with an excellent track record.
It's a shame when people who work in media transfer businesses dont even know of Specs Bros and companies of similar standing and expertise.
You might be able to recover images using RF capture methods if standard methods will not work. You will have to clean the heads multiple time if the tape is shedding. https://github.com/oyvindln/vhs-deco...-Capture-Guide. RF capture is an evolving science so it is not a fix all tool just another one to add to your toolbox.
Thank you everyone for your responses. Let me just say that, I personally, will not be touching this thing with a 10 foot poll. I don't care if it's a VCR I got at the Salvation Army. I. Refuse. lol
Oh! Regarding the chances of recover. I now know that it has still images on it from back during the Vietnam War! I have no idea what method was used to transfer the images, or what was used to capture them, but the fact that they are just still images should make recover a bit easier, I would think.
@Aya_Rei
I appreciate the nod to Spec Bros. I'd never heard of them, but then again, I've never run into this before, personally. Minor physical degradation where the tape was exposed? Yes. This??? Nope. I don't know the brand of the tape unfortunately.
@latreche34
Thanks for all the info! Since I now know that this has still images on it, can the tape not be removed from the case, put onto a special holder, and slowly scanned? This would remove the harsh bend that the tape has to do when it comes out from inside the cassette, and of course, when it goes back onto the other spool. I'm not suggesting that I do it. No way in hell! Spec Bros is more than welcome to it.
@timtape
Thanks for the nod to Spec Bros. Clearly the place to choose if multiple people in such a short time recommend them. Aya Rei also says that it has the LS stamp of approval. Never a bad thing!
@Idocinthebox
I don't know anything about RF capture so I'll have to at least check it out to see what's up with it.
Thanks again everyone! They'll be so relieved to hear that there's at least the possibility of partial retrieval of the data.
Oh, so you're saying the tape must've been some edited together copy, perhaps a photo slideshow with music on it. Was under the impression it was a camcorder or TV recording, hence my question on tape brand. Since those types of footage usually come on blank tapes that are from certain brands, with BASF and Ampex being the ones known to suffer from SSS due to how the formulation was made (it just breaks down with age, not due to storage conditions, even then terrible storage conditions would probably attract mold than SSS)
I myself never used them but have heard they are the go to for tapes suffering from physical problems, signal issues (such as mistracking) can usually be corrected more easily.
I personally don't think the RF capture method would have any benefits here, since that method still requires clean tapes and a clean VCR.
My guess is the first thing anyone will do is bake the tape on the off-chance that resets the binder to stick better to the plastic. It is possible only the exposed section is actually doing that and the rest of the tape could be fine. Never come across a tape myself where the oxide was actually flaking off in large pieces myself, so can't share any first hand knowledge.
If the entire tape were to somehow be like that, then I don't think it's possible to recover via any method.
You also have to hope that the tape was never fast forwarded or rewound after the tape degradation happened, or it's probably not going to be recoverable either. So what I'm saying is hopefully the first capture person didn't rewind the tape, though that is often the first thing transfer companies do as they don't expect the oxide layer to be flaking like that and are unlikely to have opened the flap and looked at it before sticking it into a VCR as what you've got there is extremely uncommon.
Video99.uk has probably run into that before as I feel like I've seen some of his YouTube videos where he attempts to address something similar, so you might message him to see if he has any suggestions also.
It may recover the raw data better. Honestly I would use both methods and then splice together the best parts of each with your favorite NLE, maybe color correct after that. As for digital processing of the image after you could try Topaz Starlight mini, it can give excellent results in some cases. You are dealing with degraded signals and tape issues. Baking the tapes can allow capture. There are many methods please be careful and understand the methods before you attempt them.
Both Decode and standard capture pull the tape over the heads so I don’t think there is an advantage using one over the other with damaged media.
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Honestly I would use both methods and then splice together
They probably won’t get a second chance to capture that tape.
Using both methods would be really tough. Learning a whole new method just for one tape that already has damage doesn’t make sense. Being able to do both methods well isn’t common. I’ll see threads with very experienced users that can’t get decode figured out and then the decode members standard reference captures are done with gear that isn’t recommended. That’s why there is such a lack of good comparison videos. There isn’t anyone you can send a tape to and say hey I want an excellent standard capture using recommended refurbished gear and also use the VHS decode method. The OP is wanting a recommendation of who to send this tape to. That kind of requests wouldn’t make much sense anyways when the tape has major problems like the ones the OP is describing.
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As for digital processing of the image after you could try Topaz Starlight mini
I know the regular cloud based starlight is really expensive. https://youtu.be/C8JZjz9HdrI?si=0ULUjCHYBKfMBl9R He has it priced at $500 to process one and a half hours of 59.97 fps video. When he used it he still had to feed it a video he deinterlaced with QTGMC first for the best results. The mini version that you are talking about is local and just a quick google search says it’s 300 dollars. All of that A.I. makes up details. It’s not true to the source.
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There are many methods please be careful and understand the methods before you attempt them.
We know so little about the tape. We've only seen two photos of one side of a 6" section of the tape. An E180 VHS tape is typically 850 feet long! If this tape was brought to me I would inspect it in more detail. I would look through the clear plastic windows to view the top sides of the reels, then open the case and inspect the reels of tape and look for other clues inside the case. If the oxide layer had lost adhesion with the base layer that could be confirmed with minimal damage to the tape. Maybe the damage is only confined to the 6" length under the flap. Maybe some foreign substance got onto just that 6" section. So much we don't know.
sever degradation of the film strip/coating itself.
They're willing to discuss the problem, and the high cost of the attempt with a company, but where ... would you even send a tape like this?
The biggest thing's I wanted to get across to them right away was to not send it to anyone in this area. That, and don't even touch the damn thing!
Correct.
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LS. I hope you're doing well, or at least as well as old people like us can be.
Yep, I'm still here. Bones weaker, knees crack, MS beats me down daily. But I'm not done yet.
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Originally Posted by timtape
In the USA at least, Specs Bros have long been top tier in tape recovery. They were pioneers in this field. If anyone has the needed skills and the specialised equipment and techniques it's probably them.
It's a shame when people who work in media transfer businesses dont even know of Specs Bros and companies of similar standing and expertise.
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Originally Posted by Idocinthebox
You might be able to recover images using RF capture methods
That will have zero advantage here. vhs-decode is simply an attempt to recreate a VCR, and has no effect (neither positive nor negative) on tape condition.
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Originally Posted by Aya_Rei
don't think the RF capture method would have any benefits here, since that method still requires clean tapes and a clean VCR.
Correct.
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Originally Posted by aramkolt
Video99.uk has probably run into that before as I feel like I've seen some of his YouTube videos where he attempts to address something similar, so you might message him to see if he has any suggestions also.
He's a nice guy, but he recovery methods are basic and risky.
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Originally Posted by Gary34
Will you explain why you think decode would do better with physically damaged media?
vhs-decode suggestions are overdone lately, not too different from "clean the VCR heads". It's not a fix-all. Specific problems require specific actions. You may as well say "a gigabyte of RAM should do the trick" (ala Under Siege movie from 1990s). Or "somehow Palpatine has returned" without further explanation.
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Originally Posted by Gary34
Both Decode and standard capture pull the tape over the heads so I don’t think there is an advantage using one over the other with damaged media.
Correct.
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They probably won’t get a second chance to capture that tape.
Correct. Very risky, even now, much less for two attempts.
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Originally Posted by timtape
We know so little about the tape. We've only seen two photos of one side of a 6" section of the tape. An E180 VHS tape is typically 850 feet long! If this tape was brought to me I would inspect it in more detail. I would look through the clear plastic windows to view the top sides of the reels, then open the case and inspect the reels of tape and look for other clues inside the case. If the oxide layer had lost adhesion with the base layer that could be confirmed with minimal damage to the tape. Maybe the damage is only confined to the 6" length under the flap. Maybe some foreign substance got onto just that 6" section. So much we don't know.
Correct. Hence why just giving it to Spec Bros, not screwing around with low-end or DIY, if contents matter.
