I find myself in a position where it seems I have gotten myself into a new hobby. My fiancee and I are going to her best friend’s wedding in 10 days and just last weekend she had the lovely idea of asking her grandfather to give her the “old-school” video camera with which we could film some wedding footage.
And while I consider myself relatively tech-savvy, I have no experience with cameras and my experience with analog standards is limited to fuzzy memories tinkering with old video game consoles and the different connectors (RCA, SCART, etc.)
The camcorder we “inherited” is a SONY CCD-TRV67E - with me I took just the basics, camera with the accompanying bag, battery, charging cable and 6 cassette tapes. I was also offered some sort of RCA cable (I imagine that being camera-to-RCA) and some VHS player, which I did not think I needed, but I will visit to take another look if it could be useful.
So what I have done so far is:
Managed to turn it on and verify that it plays tapes on the tiny screen (went through 3 of them - mostly wrestling footage, as the granddad used to be a coach, in between found about a minute or two of my fiancee as a toddler), all of them are Video 8 tapes (I guess grandpa didn’t care too much back in the day to get the Hi 8 tapes)
Pretty much verify that the battery itself is dead (leaving it on charging mode did nothing, multimeter shows no voltage)
Ordered an aftermarket battery and an S-video cable (as I read that S-video is better than RCA), supposedly arriving the day before the wedding.
Located 2 pcs of brand new Hi-8 tape locally on the used market for 10 eur/pc
Read a bunch of forum/reddit posts surrounding the topic + partly through the 130 page camera manual
Fundamentally with all of this I have 3 goals:
Get it to a point where I can record some tapes (if not this wedding, then my own)
Convert the 6 existing tapes + whatever I record in the future
Perhaps turn this whole thing into a new lasting hobby
Regarding step 1, I think I will figure it out, RTFM, procure new tape & battery and go. Maintenance is another topic, wondering if it would be worth buying a new Scotch cleaning tape I found on a local marketplace for 10 eur (considering I see prices of 70-100 on ebay)?
Regarding step 2 my initial "brilliant" thought was to bring the tapes to some photo shop and “develop” them similarly to film. Well, it wasn’t so simple but I found a place that digitizes Video8/Hi-8 for 10 eur/cassette. That would be 60 total + whatever new stuff I record.
Considering I originally had no plans to invest money into this, this seemed like a rip-off, so I decided to research how to do it myself. That is what brought me here - the rabbit hole goes deep and I just end up in places where I lack the overall knowledge regarding tape, analog video etc.
What my current understanding is:
“Easycrap” is basically setting money on fire
Elgato Video Capture is more of the same, just more money
TBC is an important step and my camcorder has such a setting (guessing line TBC, but honestly don’t yet have a proper understanding of line vs frame or TBC in general)
The options I am considering at the moment:
Startech SVID2USB232 (Orderable with some wait time from a local retailer for 45 eur)
Hauppauge USB-Live2 (50 eur + whatever the european shipping ends up being)
I’m only planning to convert these Video8 and Hi8 tapes, recorded in PAL from this specific camcorder, I have no VHS’s or other formats I need to convert.
Would it make any sense bothering with setting up my own conversion with either these converters or your recommendations (under 100 eur let’s say), or just pay a pro and hope they have good gear? I am still thinking whether I am willing to invest into higher-tier equipment, as I'm only 2 days into this.
My quality expectations are not too high - part of getting into this is for the “VHS aesthetic” anyways, and I’m sure granddad won’t care either how crisp the wrestling footage comes out. But I also am not interested in doing absolute garbage conversions (I have a bit of self-respect regarding quality if I invest time into this).
So thank you to whoever is reading this long memoir, for being part of my journey in getting to know a camera that’s almost as old as I am, and I will appreciate any feedback, tips & tricks.
Do not use those HI8 today! Any cheap smart phone has better quality.
For digitization of existing tapes - yes, you need good camcorder with line TBC and NR, good frame TBC and good capture card.
And read carefully this portal
But for filming today - get modern HD camera with optical zoom (important) and memory card. Do not waste time with those tapes. Does not matter HI8, Digital8, DV or HDV and whatever. It is a complete waste of time, money and health! Filming on cassettes can cause a heart attack!
Radiokom is right, the nightmares of dealing with tape are not really worth it. HD (some might even say 4K) digital video cameras with modern features are a must for weddings in 2025! The Hi8 look can be replaced relatively easily nowadays with a good NLE such as DaVinci Resolve, and you still will have much higher quality footage.
If you insist on analog, I have seen many successful results of weddings filmed this decade using Super8 and 16 mm. Despite the expense, I promise you there are many less headaches to be had when digitizing that footage.
The original poster is going more for the vintage look of analog standard definition video. They do not want the "best quality" or the easiest to initially play back and distribute. My suggestion would probably be to record both simultaneously with a smartphone also mounted to the Hi8 camera so you have a fallback if you don't like how the analog footage turns out.
The camera itself can be used to play back the footage - Your model may or may not have a line TBC, you would need to check the camera's menu. For the least equipment and complexity, you can get decent results going with a Digital8 camera to play the tape back and output DV over firewire or use the S-Video output to go directly to certain DVD recorders and then rip the DVD. That's not going to be quite as good as doing a lossless capture, but it should do better than most easycap devices and won't require a separate TBC. The beauty of the tape is that you can always convert it a different way later if you don't like the results you get with an initial method.
Honestly, if you can get a sample already converted file from the "10 Euro per tape service" and you like the quality, you could even go that route, that's pretty reasonable for not having to buy any hardware or spend time doing it.
Cleaning tapes can be handy for Hi8, but often aren't required with the paper and alcohol cleaning method, but would just make sure to only spin the drum in the direction it normally turns when doing that.
If you want the analog look, another thing that you might not have considered is making the original recording digital and then dubbing the digital recording to Hi8, and then re-capturing the dubbed tape. In that case, it wasn't actually shot on vintage equipment, but it was on Hi8 at one point.
If going the Standard Definition Digital Route, I almost would suggest Digital8 over MiniDV since it does not have the DV Macroblocks. However, I struggle to name any really good Digital8 Cameras, whereas I can confidently say that units like the Canon XV1/GL1/XM1 and its successors can deliver very high quality for SD (truly resolving 480p at the format’s limits).
Video tapes degrades. There are no new video HI8 tapes. You can get new quality audio tapes from Recording The Masters, based on BASF formulas and partially manufactured on former BASF equipment, but not video. If as a toy or for curiosity you can do anything and use any equipment but it can not be as main equipment. To make video looks like vintage you may use editors and add noise and anything. One thing what may be considered (a bit off topic) is a camera with full frame 35mm sensor. Here is one beautiful example (I use previous 4K fp with Leica lens mount) :
Any video cassettes may be PITA, even NOS. Those who digitize them know sometimes you should clean heads every 5 minutes and then edit result. This is not for the faint of heart.
So any video tapes and equipment should be used only to digitize previously recorded content at maximum quality possible.
Most Hi8 tapes still play pretty well today is my understanding. Certain Sony branded MP or ME tapes have binder that likes to go bad or sticky and I assume that'd also be the case with new old stock tape. I've seen specific videos from 12voltvids that HMPX tapes are particularly bad.
Hi8 cameras are kind of fun to play around with and I can't say that I've ever had a recording not play back well that was just freshly made, but could just be that I had good luck with the specific tape brands I happened to have laying around.
If it was something like a wedding, I'd probably buy a couple brands and do a 1 hour test recording on one of the blanks of each brand and see if it records and plays back ok, then use one of the other blanks from the same batch for the actual wedding.
Just for a bit of clarification the couple does have their own photo/video guy for the wedding, whatever footage I may or may not capture with the Hi8 camera is just an extra surprise. It's mostly just that this camera was sitting in a closet somewhere and might as well figure out how to put it to use.
So I guess I'll just start with getting one blank and test it out once I get the battery. As for the blanks - I've found a Sony P6-30HMP2 and a TDK P6-120HMPR, they cost the same, any suggestions which one or roll the dice?
Regarding the conversion of the tapes, any feedback regarding those devices I listed, i.e. are they just as bad as the easycraps? In general, I have my doubts that the place I found will have all the proper equipment, perhaps worth trying with one tape.
Having done some reading in the meantime - do any of you have experience with VHS decode? The cost of setting it up is still like double of what I was thinking of spending, but price/quality wise maybe worth it?
JSo I guess I'll just start with getting one blank and test it out once I get the battery.
You should start by opening camera and remove head cleaner foam, if present. You do not need to remove all cleaner assembly, just pull off foam. And clean drum with paper+IPA.
Depends on storage conditions and quality of the tape. I have VHS tapes I shot in 1979, stored at normal room temperatures, subject to two cross country trips in moving vans, that play as well today as they did 46 years ago. Same for Video8 and Hi8 tapes from 30 years ago. Not to mention audio tapes from 60 years ago.
That said the issue was more the quality of the consumer/prosumer market video cameras back then, lack of decent lighting, mic placement on the video camera, and skill of the shooter.
Before investing in obsolete technologies, methods and gear, I recommend considering the following questions and let you answers be your guide:
1. The learning curve to do it well will be substantial; it is not just a RTFM and done. Recommend you practice in similar situations/venues well in advance and evaluate your results for what can be done to improve your raw video. It can become a hobby with serious investments in time - and money.
2. What is the quality expectation of the final viewers of the video? There is a huge difference in image quality between even smart phone video and old analog SD formats; especially when viewed on modern large screen TV sets/monitors.
3. A wedding? Hand held shots from a "4th row pew" generally stink; they are shaky, obstructed view (of backs) and have very bad sound. Church lighting may be poor. Video shot at a reception or rehearsal can be better, and more interesting. Especially if a professional is doing the ceremony. What the professional may miss are good candid shots that build on knowledge of the family and friends and their interrelation ships. And the professionals tend to focus on the couple, not the sidebars among the guests. Given that content is king, this is where IMO you can make a difference.
4. While managing your video shooting you are not focused on enjoying the event. (Your fiancee might prefer to dance than watch you waltz with a video camera.)
5. Maintenance/parts/service on the old gear is hard to find.
I would recommend turning off the Handycam's video noise reduction option, as that can cause color trailing artifacts. But definitely leave the TBC on.
An update from my side, I have managed to make a little bit of progress. Had parked this project for a bit - was waiting for a battery I ordered, only to have the e-shop refund me a couple weeks later and say they won't be able to fulfil my order.
I did however travel to Tokyo at the beginning of December and while walking through a huge electronics retailer noticed an IO-DATA GV-USB2 converter on a shelf, remembered reading somewhere that it is a "not so crap" device, decided to pick it up. On top of that, I went on a little treasure hunt through small electronics shops and managed to find sealed Video8 tapes, not the Hi8 I was looking for, but they were dirt cheap so I bought all of them anyways.
So last week I started setting up the conversion - let's just say my ignorant noob brain greatly underestimated the difficulty of doing this. I've managed to get capture somewhat working - installed the GV-USB2 drivers and AmarecTV, set the hardware deinterlacing to weave (off) & using the LAGS codec.
My issue currently is how to further process the .avi files.
1. Deinterlacing - current plan is to use Hybrid with QTGMC, however I'm a bit stuck with what settings I should use.
2. Artifacts (not sure how else to describe it)? The captured footage has a green bar on the right edge and some jagged lines on the bottom edge, should I just crop it away?
3. How should I encode it in Hybrid so that I can use the files in Davinci Resolve? LLMs recommended ProRes 422 HQ.
4. Do you guys typically apply any other sort of filtering/upscaling/processing to the footage?
Later in the day I could post some screenshots with my Amarec settings & some sample .avi recording for reference if anyone is interested.
An update from my side, I have managed to make a little bit of progress. Had parked this project for a bit - was waiting for a battery I ordered, only to have the e-shop refund me a couple weeks later and say they won't be able to fulfil my order.
I did however travel to Tokyo at the beginning of December and while walking through a huge electronics retailer noticed an IO-DATA GV-USB2 converter on a shelf, remembered reading somewhere that it is a "not so crap" device, decided to pick it up. On top of that, I went on a little treasure hunt through small electronics shops and managed to find sealed Video8 tapes, not the Hi8 I was looking for, but they were dirt cheap so I bought all of them anyways.
So last week I started setting up the conversion - let's just say my ignorant noob brain greatly underestimated the difficulty of doing this. I've managed to get capture somewhat working - installed the GV-USB2 drivers and AmarecTV, the hardware deinterlacing to weave (off) & using the LAGS codec.
You did good, and you understand what you bought. Perfect.
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My issue currently is how to further process the .avi files.
1. Deinterlacing - current plan is to use Hybrid with QTGMC, however I'm a bit stuck with what settings I should use.
Which are you confused about?
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2. Artifacts (not sure how else to describe it)? The captured footage has a green bar on the right edge and some jagged lines on the bottom edge, should I just crop it away?
Overscan, head-switching noise. The green is a side effect of the format in reading vs. recording. I forget the technical details, but NJRoadfan (I believe) has posted on this topic before in the forum.
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3. How should I encode it in Hybrid so that I can use the files in Davinci Resolve? LLMs recommended ProRes 422 HQ.
DaVinci has limited options, with "lossless" (less lossy) H.264 being most common. I really see no need for DaVanci, unless you plan to do advanced color correction (beyond what ColorMill in VirtualDub can do, which is a lot).
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4. Do you guys typically apply any other sort of filtering/upscaling/processing to the footage?
cNR (chroma NR) via VirtualDub CCD filter, masking (cropping+padding) by 4px multiples (otherwise interlace screws up), maybe deinterlace+sharpness as needed. There's no single answer. It fully depends on end use needs. All you need is VirtualDub and Avisynth (or Avisynth in Hybrid). Payware and NLEs are just bloat to the workflow, and often work poorly at these non-editing restoration needs.
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Later in the day I could post some screenshots with my Amarec settings & some sample .avi recording for reference if anyone is interested.
I pretty much have left everything on defaults, however - it detects my footage as progressive. If I run a test on a longer clip it returns that it is bottom field first.
I can override it in the de-interlacing section, I can select between a bunch of different options - bottom field first, top field first, telecine, etc.
test.mp4 is using bottom field first and looks very weird, while test2.mp4 is using top field first and looks better.
Also I guess I should switch over to avisynth instead of vapoursynth?
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Originally Posted by lordsmurf
DaVinci has limited options, with "lossless" (less lossy) H.264 being most common. I really see no need for DaVanci, unless you plan to do advanced color correction (beyond what ColorMill in VirtualDub can do, which is a lot).
Resolve is simply the only video editing software I've ever used - I was planning to use it just for cutting and stitching together the different footage (some tapes have some childhood clips of my fiancee in between all the wrestling )
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Originally Posted by lordsmurf
Do it. Attach to a post, don't hotlink.
Attached a very short original capture .avi clip to fit under 99mb + the hybrid encodes with bff and tff + all the different settings I'm using.
While writing this also figured out how to encode in x264 (previously was getting a PCM not allowed error, because I didn't set up the audio tab correctly).
Anyways - will try to set up the VirtualDub then, and read up on how to use it, could I also then do the deinterlacing there (skipping Hybrid entirely)?
1. VirtualDub does not have the QTGMC deinterlacer so just use Hybrid for deinterlacing and other filters. Vapoursynth can be perfectly fine if the only filters you decide to use work with both Vapoursynth & Avisynth. That or you decide to use Vapoursynth exclusive upscaling filters.
2. Analog video is captured as top field first, Hybrid just defaults to bottom field first, that's why your TFF deinterlaced file looks correct. Only DV video is BFF by default.
I gave the clip a shot at deinterlacing via Hybrid. I also cropped the junk out (I know masking is ideal, but Hybrid doesn't seem to have that function) and I cut out the opening junk blue screen frames using an experimental hybrid tool during the deinterlacing. 720x540 which I understand is perfectly acceptable for PAL (recommended even?) as opposed to the the 640x480 for NTSC (which I have neglected to do on my own footage, time to do those over again).
I gave the clip a shot at deinterlacing via Hybrid. I also cropped the junk out (I know masking is ideal, but Hybrid doesn't seem to have that function) and I cut out the opening junk blue screen frames using an experimental hybrid tool during the deinterlacing. 720x540 which I understand is perfectly acceptable for PAL (recommended even?) as opposed to the the 640x480 for NTSC (which I have neglected to do on my own footage, time to do those over again).
Could you please also share the settings you used?
Sure. I also redid the footage, having figured out finally how to do the proper masking and cropping. Would love to see other opinions on whether I finally got it right or not:
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