Opinions on Sony SLV-R1000 VCR?

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

Relax, I own a professional sound restoration studio and have some experience with azimuth for more than 35 years But as I wrote in edited comment above, it would be a good idea to use professional VCR I already have with stereo head to determine azimuth error in seconds.

Reading your earlier posts it seemed you were already very familiar with this stereo repro head technique on full track open reel tapes and on cassettes. Surprised you didn't already see its application with VHS linear audio capture and azimuth.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

Reading your earlier posts it seemed you were already very familiar with this stereo repro head technique on full track open reel tapes and on cassettes.

Exactly. I simply didn't pay (and still don't pay) much attention to the VCR mono linear track azimuth adjustment, because if the head on recording machine/camera was not completely out of adjustment (no one has messed with it from factory), then adjusting the azimuth at 6-7khz has little effect. But using a VCR with stereo head could determine error very precise no matter you hear it or not.

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

Exactly. I simply didn't pay (and still don't pay) much attention to the VCR mono linear track azimuth adjustment, because if the head on recording machine/camera was not completely out of adjustment (no one has messed with it from factory), then adjusting the azimuth at 6-7khz has little effect. But using a VCR with stereo head could determine error very precise no matter you hear it or not.

Maybe the English is part of the problem here but it seems like you will only accept 100% perfect alignment or doing nothing.

Have you ever actually adjusted VHS or Beta linear audio azimuth while listening to program, or used the stereo head method?

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

Maybe the English is part of the problem here but it seems like you will only accept 100% perfect alignment or doing nothing.

Have you ever actually adjusted VHS or Beta linear audio azimuth while listening to program, or used the stereo head method?

In my opinion, you simply do not fully understand the essence of the matter. It is worth adjusting the azimuth in 2 cases. First, if it can be done quickly and easily (we adjust it for all tapes and cassettes, because our machines all have professional playback azimuth adjustment). And the second case is - if the azimuth error is so large that it can be heard or, at least, the spectral display shows changes in the upper frequencies. And for tape recorder tapes and cassettes, the azimuth error is usually incomparably larger - for tape recorders, the heads have usually been changed several times and sometimes adjusted according to the method "put on a good-sounding tape and turned it by ear". The result is often a dramatic azimuth error, up to 40 minutes, and you can hear it even at 4khz. But for video tape recorders, this is much less common, if the heads were also changed, then not at home on a desk, but in a repair shop. Adjust the azimuth to the nominal and try to turn your knob for a well-known professionally recorded cassette with the correct azimuth. You will see on the spectral display that something starts to change (the upper frequencies decrease) by turning your knob quite a bit + or -. While the azimuth error is in this range where nothing actually changes, what and why you want to adjust? Of course, if you have LP and frequencies above 8khz (rarely), then the range will be smaller. Why adjust something if nothing changes significantly, and the adjustment cannot be done quickly and accurately with exact return to nominal position quickly? If you want to adjust the azimuth for all VHS tapes, regardless of whether the error is within the normal range, you can do it, but first install the correct azimuth adjustment knob (with a separate threaded rod so as not to damage the original thread) and use the spectral display, following the changes in the upper frequencies. But your method "from tape to tape "on the fly" by ear" and without returning to exact nominal azimuth is completely wrong.

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

If you want to adjust the azimuth for all VHS tapes, regardless of whether the error is within the normal range, you can do it, but first install the correct azimuth adjustment knob (with a separate threaded rod so as not to damage the original thread) and use the spectral display, following the changes in the upper frequencies.

I have basic VHS azimuth adjusters made in my own workshop. I uploaded a photo of an external adjuster knob installed on my Sharp VHS deck. Using this and others I seem to have produced good audio results for some 20 or more years. Why not upload photos of the professional azimuth adjusters you use in your VHS decks?

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

But your method "from tape to tape "on the fly" by ear" and without returning to exact nominal azimuth is completely wrong.

Completely wrong? I also uploaded (post #31) an audio example of my transfer work with an LP PAL VHS tape. Why not do the same and upload a similar sample of your audio transfer work from an LP VHS tape? Please demonstrate from the actual audio comparison why my tools and methods are "completely wrong".

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

I have basic VHS azimuth adjusters made in my own workshop. I uploaded a photo of an external adjuster knob installed on my Sharp VHS deck. Using this and others I seem to have produced good audio results for some 20 or more years. Why not upload photos of the professional azimuth adjusters you use in your VHS decks?

Completely wrong? I also uploaded (post #31) an audio example of my transfer work with an LP PAL VHS tape. Why not do the same and upload a similar sample of your audio transfer work from an LP VHS tape? Please demonstrate from the actual audio comparison why my tools and methods are "completely wrong".

I don't want to argue with you or prove anything. Everything I wanted to say on this topic (azimuth) has already been written. It's up to you whether you understand it (read about wavelength too) an take it into account or not. It's very difficult to try to convince someone who thinks he is doing everything right, and his method is almost the standard. I certainly don't want to waste time on that. So - take it, or leave it.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

I don't want to argue with you or prove anything.

Thank you for not arguing, it is appreciated.

Disagreement is fine. In fact, sometimes quite healthy.

Note: I've not followed this conversation close enough to agree, or disagree. A quick skim shows that some loss in translation probably exists. So my comment here is not technical, just as moderator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

I uploaded a photo of an external adjuster knob installed on my Sharp VHS deck.

I remember that. I like your mod.

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I remember that. I like your mod.

Thanks LS. Here's a recent video guide to adjusting azimuth by Nick Bergh of Endpoint Audio Labs. It doesn't cover linear audio on video cassettes specifically but of course the the basic azimuth alignment issues are the same on all magnetic tape.

Tim

https://vimeo.com/1077078119?&login=true#_=_

[radiokom]

Okay, I'll explain
Here's what the azimuth adjustment knob looks like (the particular one is for Studer A80). All the details are important. The lower part of the threaded rod is screwed into the head block and fixed. The knob is screwed into the upper part. The thread must be precise fine thread - so that when you turn the knob by one minute on the scale, it really is one minute. The original Studer thread in the head block is the same, the VCR is coarser, so a threaded rod with 2 different threads is needed and it must be fixed motionlessly in place of the original azimuth screw. Next, the azimuth is precisely adjusted according to the test tape and the scale 0 is aligned with the mark.

Knob installed.jpg

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Knob.jpg

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Knob2.jpg

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Studer_A80_QC_with_cassette_tape.jpg

[radiokom]

But it is easier to order those knobs from John French JRF Magnetics. He wll make any according to your specifications, it will definitely be cheaper than making your own.

https://jrfmagnetics.com/

And one more note - never, ever use the polyurethane pinch roller like the one in the A820 picture above. It is an old picture and roller is Athan crap. I replaced it within 2 months. And now original rerubbered on original core is installed (as for all my tape recorders). If you need a pinch roller, I recommend contacting Gianni from sofh.it, he is the best.

But a bit off topic, of course

[timtape]

Thanks radiokom for showing us those great Studer machines. Excellent for digitizing VHS and other format videocassettes.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

Thanks radiokom for showing us those great Studer machines. Excellent for digitizing VHS and other format videocassettes.

But they all are my machines and restored by me personally. And they all has playback azimuth adjustment konobs For VCR I can show only lubricated transports and recapped PS

[timtape]

I also own, maintain and sometimes modify various open reel machines but I dont talk about or show them unless it is relevent to this
video forum. I initially showed photos of commercial reel to reel and cassette azimuth adjusters plus one of my own VHS adjusters to show forum people that manufacturers make the adjusters and that experts use them in their work. So that was already made clear in this thread as you know.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

I also own, maintain and sometimes modify various open reel machines but I dont talk about or show them unless it is relevent to this
video forum. I initially showed photos of commercial reel to reel and cassette azimuth adjusters plus one of my own VHS adjusters to show forum people that manufacturers make the adjusters and that experts use them in their work. So that was already made clear in this thread as you know.

And I also sent photos (the first 3) of what the azimuth knob should look like and how it should be installed, it doesn't matter R2R or VCR.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

Here's what the azimuth adjustment knob looks like

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

Thanks radiokom for showing us those great Studer machines. Excellent for digitizing VHS and other format videocassettes.

Yes, interesting photos indeed.
But yes, also off-topic to a thread about a Sony VHS VCRs.

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

I only want to say - if recorded frequencies are below 10khz (speech) it is nearly impossible to adjust azimuth by ear for mono recordings. Except for music recordings, but VHS tapes with music recorded with linear audio is rare. For stereo you can switch to mono and adjust by ear on headphones very simply...

For me it's the opposite. My ageing hearing has not heard anything above 10 kHz for some years. It used to be 15 kHz! One of the reasons I chose an LP VHS audio track as a demonstration here is because the maximum frequency attainable at such a slow tape speed is still audible to me. As you observed the highest captured speech frequency in my sample was around 8 kHz. I'm sure you are also aware that since 8kHz is at the upper practical limit for the LP tape speed (equivalent to 32 kHz at audio cassette speed!) my azimuth alignment must have been not just good but excellent. It would be nice if you could at least acknowledge that radiokom. But there you were saying my methods were "completely wrong". If that were true how do you explain the digitized result?

When dealing with open reel audio tapes whose upper frequencies are beyond one's hearing acuity, it's easy to play them back at half speed or even slower to bring the audio down to our hearing abilities for best azimuth alignment. We just switch the machine to a suitably slower speed. When playback speed is slow enough on many reel to reel tapes we can sometimes even align azimuth to the record bias tone!

But with playing back say VHS and Betamax tapes the machine normally locks on to the originally recorded speed. The uppermost frequencies in a SP VHS tape are becoming inaudible to me and I will have to custom mod a deck to have manually switchable playback speeds. Of course there are also visual metering tools which complement listening with somewhat compromised hearing.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

But there you were saying my methods were "completely wrong". If that were true how do you explain the digitized result?

OK, exclude word "completely". What I want to say:

1.You should have right knob with possibility to determine azimuth error and return to nominal azimuth before next adjustment.

2.You can use your ears, but they are not precise measurement tool, they can lie. So you should use spectral display together with your ears.

Wrong method is to adjust azimuth from cassette to cassette without returning to exact nominal azimuth before. Except maybe for mono tracks reproduced in stereo and later mixed back to mono. In this case you can adjust azimuth in seconds on phase spectral display, and your ears are not needed at all.