Opinions on Sony SLV-R1000 VCR?

[sordidpast]

I found a listing in the $500 range for a truly refurbished Sony SLV-R1000 by a highly rated seller. I'm not finding anything about the model in forum search. What's your experience?

[ge0dude]

I don't have an opinion on the unit, but if you're willing to spend that kind of money, I would strongly consider one of the approved VCR's from the VCR Buying Guide on this forum.

[lordsmurf]

It's just not that good of a deck.

If you already have a quality with-TBC JVC, and a Panasonic AG-1980P as secondary, yet still feel the need to collect other-brand VCRs, then I say go for it.

My recipe is:
- 1st = JVC S-VHS with TBC, all-around best
- 2nd = Panasonic AG-1980P, for EP, VHS-C, linear audio, etc -- noting JVC can be fine at EP/VHS-C/linear too
- 3rd = another JVC S-VHS, but non-similar/different model
- 4th = other high-end models, but mostly for fun/play more than serious use/work

Jumping straight to a Sony like this would be a mistake, bad use of funds.

Also don't trust eBay feedback. Negatives are quite easy to get removed, which most people do not realize. The system has been gamed for years. And anybody selling dozens/hundreds of "serviced" VCRs is full of crap. Don't fall for it. In the 2020s, it's not an easy task for one person to do more than 1-2 decks per week, if truly servicing everything.

[sordidpast]

Thanks, that's the answer I was looking for!

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

- 2nd = Panasonic AG-1980P, for EP, VHS-C, linear audio, etc -- noting JVC can be fine at EP/VHS-C/linear too

I am curious about JVC linear sound problem.
Most family/private VHS (large part of digitization projects)are recorded with linear sound, not Hi-Fi.
I did not noticed difference between JVC HR-S7722/7711 and Panasonic NV-FS200.
And test cassettes show about the same result (however I did not tested full audio spectrum, only basic 100hz 1000hz 10Khz).
Where lie the problem of JVC?

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

I am curious about JVC linear sound problem.
Most family/private VHS (large part of digitization projects)are recorded with linear sound, not Hi-Fi.
I did not noticed difference between JVC HR-S7722/7711 and Panasonic NV-FS200.
And test cassettes show about the same result (however I did not tested full audio spectrum, only basic 100hz 1000hz 10Khz).

From what I've seen, heard and discussed on this forum over recent years it's poor signal to noise ratio due to multiple tonal harmonics added by the VCR at playback. It seems JVC (on certain models) arent the only ones either.

Testing frequency response isnt enough. We have to test broadband noise performance in playback re the reference signal. This is a common test with solely audio tape gear, or should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

Where lie the problem of JVC?

My guess is SMPS and possibly video head drum motor. I see even in some mid priced Sonys (EZ77) the SMPS is nicely shielded inside a metal enclosure, whereas a JVC 7600 SMPS appears to have no shielding.

These things can happen when people are recommended VCR's solely or mostly based on their picture playback, forgetting the equal importance of audio playback, especially linear/normal audio which as you say was commonly used on many valued recordings.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

From what I've seen, heard and discussed on this forum over recent years it's poor signal to noise ratio due to multiple tonal harmonics added by the VCR at playback. It seems JVC (on certain models) arent the only ones either.

Testing frequency response isnt enough. We have to test broadband noise performance in playback re the reference signal. This is a common test with solely audio tape gear, or should be.

My guess is SMPS and possibly video head drum motor. I see even in some mid priced Sonys (EZ77) the SMPS is nicely shielded inside a metal enclosure, whereas a JVC 7600 SMPS appears to have no shielding.

These things can happen when people are recommended VCR's solely or mostly based on their picture playback, forgetting the equal importance of audio playback, especially linear/normal audio which as you say was commonly used on many valued recordings.

Thanks for info! I did not noticed problems with SNR for 7722 and 7711. But I will check more carefully.

-- merged --

If we compare the manufacturer specifications of the HR-S77xx and Panasonic NV-FS200, we see that Panasonic has specified only the parameters of Hi-Fi audio - dynamic range better than 90db, frequency range 20hz-20khz etc. JVC is more precise (or more honest?) - specifying SNR 45db (which does not go with Hi-Fi at all, and JVC's SNR is not 45 db at Hi-Fi of course, it is better) and Normal audio frequency range 70hz-10khz. I believe this worth a test.

I have Panasonic linear audio test cassette 6khz/ 400hz-8khz-15khz. However not sure all frequencies are still up to specs. But at least it is possible to compare Panasonic & JVC. I am really curious

20251031_220413[1].jpg

[latreche34]

Linear audio can be tweaked on JVC VCRs, I've done it. I was willing to tweak every tape if needed but when I adjusted it to the optimal position for few tapes it ended up staying that way as it didn't sound as bad as it used to be anymore, So I guess over time the head stack goes out of alignment due to fast forwarding and rewinding or it was never adjusted perfectly at the factory. Either way it plays all tapes satisfactorily now.

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

Linear audio can be tweaked on JVC VCRs, I've done it.

Of course azimuth can be tweaked on JVC VHS decks and to my knowledge on every VHS and Beta deck ever made. Below is a diagram of the exact screw (and normally the only screw) to be carefully turned on a JVC 7600 ACE head, but I believe this position is the same for a number of JVC VHS decks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

I was willing to tweak every tape if needed but when I adjusted it to the optimal position for few tapes it ended up staying that way as it didn't sound as bad as it used to be anymore, So I guess over time the head stack goes out of alignment due to fast forwarding and rewinding or it was never adjusted perfectly at the factory. Either way it plays all tapes satisfactorily now.

This assumes that without even checking each tape, all were recorded to the 90 degree azimuth standard. We have no basis for assuming that until we check it. Our VCR may now be adjusted to 90 degrees but the tapes we play now and in the future may not have been recorded at that standard angle.

We check it by adjusting it, which means misadjust it to sound worse, then rock it through the peak alignment point a few times then carefully narrow it down to the peak point, normally the sharpest, clearest sound. Just as we did when tuning video tracking for peak RF signal on older VCR's before auto tracking was introduced on later model VCR's. (Below picture of front panel tracking adjuster on old Betacord deck). To my knowledge, unfortunately automatic linear audio azimuth adjustment has never been offered on any VCR or VTR so I assume we have to adjust it manually on every deck.

To explain a little more, unfortunately with video head tracking, the manufacturers could not tighten the tolerances enough, so they had to provide the consumer front panel manual Tracking Control. It's the same with linear audio azimuth especially at the very slow tape speeds. The production tolerances could not be made that tight. Hence the need to tweak azimuth. Again we cant be certain a deck's linear audio azimuth is peaked on a given unknown tape unless we adjust it for that peak. If on some tapes it turns out that the azimuth was correct before our adjusting, we now know that for certain.

I suspect that if there was a manual linear audio azimuth adjuster knob on the front panel of every VCR, even better, on the VCR's remote, a whole lot more digitizing folk would be twiddling it, because it would be so safe and easy to twiddle it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

If we compare the manufacturer specifications of the HR-S77xx and Panasonic NV-FS200, we see that Panasonic has specified only the parameters of Hi-Fi audio - dynamic range better than 90db, frequency range 20hz-20khz etc. JVC is more precise (or more honest?) - specifying SNR 45db (which does not go with Hi-Fi at all, and JVC's SNR is not 45 db at Hi-Fi of course, it is better) and Normal audio frequency range 70hz-10khz. I believe this worth a test.

I have Panasonic linear audio test cassette 6khz/ 400hz-8khz-15khz. However not sure all frequencies are still up to specs. But at least it is possible to compare Panasonic & JVC. I am really curious

By all means test it. Remember that signal to noise is not the same as playback frequency response but each complements the other. A useful signal to noise test tape has reference tones punctuated by silent sections. In an excellent playback of these silent sections, we hear nothing but the tape's own hiss. This mere tape hiss shouldnt be confused with the VCR's play preamp hiss, as the two hiss types can sound similar.

[latreche34]

What I meant is JVC linear audio can be improved by adjustment as the factory position can't be relied on, Once adjusted to an optimal level on some pre-recorded tapes I found out that there is no need to do it again as most tapes exhibited an acceptable db level and noise floor compared to what it was before.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

So I guess over time the head stack goes out of alignment due to fast forwarding and rewinding or it was never adjusted perfectly at the factory. Either way it plays all tapes satisfactorily now.

And gravity.

I've said for for years. These decks are are all 20-30 years old now. Gravity takes a toll. I realign everything for that reason. It's time consuming. But once done, it tends to be done for years.

Although, yes, FF/REW/PLAY can have some nuanced affects, forcing premature re-realignment.

[latreche34]

I'm not sure if static gravity can play any role here, the parts are way too light to have enough force to move the adjusting screws, If throwing the VCR from the 10th floor than yes gravity is devastating here. It's usually brutal force resulting from damaged tapes, mis alignment or broken parts that turn the electric motor force into self destructing force and also without forgetting the human force from abuse and misuse.

[lordsmurf]

VCRs get misadjusted by mere millimeters. Gravity can definitely affect mm over decades.

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

What I meant is JVC linear audio can be improved by adjustment as the factory position can't be relied on, Once adjusted to an optimal level on some pre-recorded tapes I found out that there is no need to do it again as most tapes exhibited an acceptable db level and noise floor compared to what it was before.

It may depend on which 'most tapes' we're talking about. If they were initially recorded on only one or two well adjusted decks we mighty get away with it but if we're a business digitizing tapes from many different owners using many different decks and camcorders, I suspect the chances of the audio azimuths all lining up as very low, especially if recorded in LP or EP speeds.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

I suspect the chances of the audio azimuths all lining up as very low, especially if recorded in LP or EP speeds.

That gave me a chuckle.

There's this line in The Big Short, where Steve Carell (based on real-life Steve Eisman) puts his hand in the air, and says "0%"

That's how I feel here. 0% chance it will be the same client to client. Does not happen.

At best -- and this is what I do -- you can have multiple decks with multiple offset presets. That way, you're not tweaking endlessly inside a deck guts, you just swap out to another unit. Odds of a deck working immediately is vastly more than 0% now.

[latreche34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

It may depend on which 'most tapes' we're talking about. If they were initially recorded on only one or two well adjusted decks we mighty get away with it but if we're a business digitizing tapes from many different owners using many different decks and camcorders, I suspect the chances of the audio azimuths all lining up as very low, especially if recorded in LP or EP speeds.

I said pre-recorded tapes, means commercial movies, That means the head now is as close as it can be to factory position or 0 degree, Remember linear audio is mono with one head that is about 1mm wide, it's more forgiving for mis alignment than any other head in the VCR, Having said that it is important to have it in the best possible position which is 0 degree.

For tapes recorded on mis aligned VCRs, I have a VCR ready for tweaking but I rarely have to do that, As I said they all play crisp audio with good audio level and very low noise floor. and I'm not a super fanatic to readjust the audio head for every tape, that's insane, but I don't question people who do it, you can be fanatic about any hobby.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

VCRs get misadjusted by mere millimeters. Gravity can definitely affect mm over decades.

Especially if fat bottom fall on it But regarding audio head misalignment, nearly all VCRs I use was up to specs, even azimuth. And it is nearly impossible to align azimuth by ear if there are up to 10khz on home cassettes. When we digitize mono full track tapes, it is very simple to adjust azimuth - simply look at phase spectrum display and adjust (all my recorders has azimuth alignment) because they all are digitized as stereo with 2x 2,75mm channel width and later mixed to mono. But for VCR linear audio - adjust for maximum level at 10khz and leave alone. You can not hear +-few minutes misalignment for speech anyway. But you need original test tape for that to be sure. And do not forget this thing, it is very important for linear audio (and erase) heads, otherwise, if heads are magnetized, you can print hiss on tape and even erase high frequencies (and there is nothing like "self demagnetizing" any more (however it does not fully demagnetize them), because no one use them for recording):

20251103_144830[1].jpg

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

Remember linear audio is mono with one head that is about 1mm wide, it's more forgiving for mis alignment than any other head in the VCR,

It's considerably less forgiving than playing back with a linear stereo head: the two linear stereo tracks are about 0.35mm wide. On the other hand the wider track gives potentially less noise than the narrower stereo tracks.

You did not also mention the other equally important variable here which is linear tape speed. The slower the tape speed, the less forgiving of azimuth error. Standard VHS SP tape speed is 1.313ips (NTSC) or 0.921ips (PAL). That's slower than the standard Compact Cassette (1.875ips) and of course it gets slower. LP halves those speeds and then even slower, SLP and EP.

From Wiki: "... This speed is quite slow: for SP it is about 2/3s that of an audio cassette, and for EP it is slower than the slowest microcassette speed. This is widely considered inadequate for anything but basic voice playback, and was a major liability for VHS-C camcorders that encouraged the use of the EP speed."...

Unfortunately the Wiki article makes no mention of the added problems of azimuth misalignment the slower the tape speed. A given misalignment at SP speed might just make speech and music a little dull and more hissy, but at LP it will be worse, and EP even worse still. Speech can become not only dull but barely intelligible, with even more background noise.

This is the same set of problems encountered with audio magnetic tape well before Beta or VHS were invented. Nothing new here.

That's why getting the best results out of economical consumer formats can be actually harder than the more expensive and robust pro formats. It takes more expertise! Getting good, consistent results can involve more than just buying "the best" gear, banging in a tape in and pressing play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

...For tapes recorded on mis aligned VCRs, I have a VCR ready for tweaking but I rarely have to do that, As I said they all play crisp audio with good audio level and very low noise floor. and I'm not a super fanatic to readjust the audio head for every tape, that's insane, but I don't question people who do it, you can be fanatic about any hobby.

For me to adjust azimuth at the beginning of a VHS tape takes me about 30 seconds max. Often a lot less. That's because I have built into a few of of my VCR's a basic, no frills external azimuth adjuster control (pictured).

So I dont have to:

1. open up the VCR,
2. find the correct azimuth screw (there is only one correct azimuth screw in each machine),
3. locate the correct non magnetic screwdriver for that screw,
4. adjust azimuth with the machine open and nothing to steady the screwdriver but my own hopefully steady hand, careful not to accidentally touch or damage parts inside the VCR especially the delicate spinning video head drum or the moving tape, and avoid to electrocuting myself by touching exposed high voltage components.

I dont have those problems or risks. There's just one external knob to adjust. In making a simple mod, I made it easier, quicker and safer, and at less than 30 seconds per tape, adjusting audio azimuth for each tape takes only a tiny fraction of the maximum playing time of the average tape, say 180 mins for SP and 360 minutes for LP.

I'm not saying that everyone should or could make this sort of mod. Maybe most cant. I'm just showing it can be done by those with the skills and it makes adjusting azimuth a lot quicker easier and safer.

Pictured a TOTL Nakamichi cassette deck with a front panel azimuth adjuster built in from the factory.

Pictured also is a professional Studer tape machine used in the record production business. Note the professional azimuth adjuster knob and matching scale, acting on the play head azimuth. Most pro studio tape recordings are more forgiving for a given azimuth error than SP VHS yet still these pro's have the adjuster fitted.

Also pro recorded tapes often have alignment tones recorded including for azimuth. This makes it easier. You could be stone deaf and still get the azimuth right just looking at meters rather than listening. No such luck with most amateur recordings. All we have is listening to whatever was recorded on the tape and align azimuth to that as best we can. (At least when using a mono track ACE head which is the most common). Another example where getting the best results from non pro audio recordings is actually harder. For here we have nothing but our listening skills to guide us.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

For me to adjust azimuth at the beginning of a VHS tape takes me about 30 seconds max. Often a lot less. That's because I have built into a few of of my VCR's a basic, no frills external azimuth adjuster control (pictured).

You have wrong Studer. At least for reproduce But in case of your DIY VCR azimuth adjustment, keep in mind original azimuth screw thread does not allow to adjust azimuth N times and it is not precise. So you will never get back to initial adjustment without test tape. Original thread is coarse. You should make a knob/screw like original Studer, otherwise your screw will wear out very fast. Or with servo motor like on CR7 And how you can adjust azimuth by ear for mono recordings with FR below 10khz I can not imagine (if head is not terribly misaligned).

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

You have wrong Studer. At least for reproduce .

I'm not sure what you're saying. Please tell me what I got wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

But in case of your DIY VCR azimuth adjustment, keep in mind original azimuth screw thread does not allow to adjust azimuth N times and it is not precise.

On the decks I've looked at the ACE head screws and threads usually are not greased ex factory. As part of the mod I grease them. Finer pitch screw threads might make things more precise but the large adjuster knob diameter essentially "gears it down" and in practice it's quite useable. If the pitch is too coarse how could the factory staff have ever aligned azimuth in the first place?

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

So you will never get back to initial adjustment without test tape..

No need to. I adjust azimuth to each tape to be digitized. Each tape to be digitized is my "azimuth alignment tape".
I'm not digitizing standard alignment/calibration tapes. They make rather boring listening and so far nobody has asked me to digitize one. Of course if I ever sold a machine I would first adjust azimuth to standard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

And how you can adjust azimuth by ear for mono recordings with FR below 10khz I can not imagine (if head is not terribly misaligned).

Not sure what you're saying. Again in the absence of alignment tones I adjust using the content on the tape. What do you do? Do you have experience in adjusting azimuth without test tones, using all that is there, the tape's contents? Expert audio tape digitisers do it regularly.