VCR Buying Guide (S-VHS, D-VHS, Professional) for restoring video

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigkazzyry

Is there a reason why the JVC SR-MV40 isn't included in your recommended VCR list?

Oversight.

It's good, extremely similar to MV45/55.

But condition matters, not just the model #. Always be mindful of that. The specific deck was a Pro model, truly Pro, and many have been ridden hard, to the point of being majorly damaged. Proceed with caution. If you cannot test, do not buy. Or if the seller has not truly tested (as I do), not just claim "tested" as is often done on eBay (where the deck is actually NOT working correctly).

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

Because he probably sold it as a pass through DVD player not for actual capturing VHS tapes.

Nope, JVCs do not have passthrough. This is JVC+LSI deck, quite nice when optimal condition. I've have several, and have sold several in the marketplace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

There are some JVCs missing on the PAL side as well, like 8600, 8700, 77**.

An oversight I want to correct soon, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric-Jan

8960 will do fine even for a Intensity Shuttle used here, no external TBC needed, only S-video available..

Nonsense. VHS needs TBC, period, no capture card can magically "not need" TBC. VCR TBCs are line TBCs meant to clean the image, and nothing in that Blackmagic box cleans the image. In fact, the BM box often dropped frames, TBC or not, which is a fatal flaw of the HD device (with SD as a poorly executed seeming-afterthought feature).

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

I'm wondering if it might be work adding a note about the NV-HS1000 in the guide. At least the older revision (EG, B) of it seems to have issues with dropout correction, it's really lackluster even compared to low-end consumer decks from the same era. Never seen any notes of the issue with the older NV-FS200 either. I noted in another thread that I managed to improve it slightly by tweaking a pot, which at least avoided black streaks on every dropout, but it is still very lackluster. Quasipal confirmed also having the black streaks issue in the thread and I've seen at least one more video on here with the same problem from another user. Never got any reply on whether the one they had that didn't have the issue was the newer revision (EGC, ECC, BYP) but I suspect it may be as the internals were changed a bit. Don't know this issue is due to a design flaw, a failing/underspecified component or some other reason. It's possible the issue is exaggerated a bit on the one we have due to head wear resulting in more dropouts than normal, but I don't know for sure.

When I give the list a tabled update, I shall include these notes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by soucevit

Hello, I am looking for advice or some personal experience with professional S-VHS machine JVC BR-S611E. Is it worth buying compared to for example JVC HR-S9600 while in same price area?

No.

Quote:

Professional one sounds like a steal for that money and it is close to my area. Almost too good to be true situation.

"Professional" is too often a marketing label, not a statement about quality. Some Pro items really are good, while others are laughably inept devices.

Quote:

I am looking for something to digitize VHS tapes on. Some of my own and of wider family members, neighbors, maybe for money if somebody will be interested later. No big projects, but I'd like to get most out of the tapes.

You're in the right thread. Refer to the 1st posts, get one of those.

Quote:

I am for sure not interested in any recording or mastering capabilities or connectivity with any studio equipment, so basically only differences in picture quality, error correction capabilities and tape handling. Thanks. Vit Soucek

Analog editing is 80s/90s task, nobody does that. And recording was often fine on lower-end decks, like JVC 3800. All of the decks mentioned in this thread a mentioned specifically for playback quality, for capturing needs. Nothing more.

[soucevit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

"Professional" is too often a marketing label, not a statement about quality. Some Pro items really are good, while others are laughably inept devices.

Analog editing is 80s/90s task, nobody does that. And recording was often fine on lower-end decks, like JVC 3800. All of the decks mentioned in this thread a mentioned specifically for playback quality, for capturing needs. Nothing more.

Thanks a lot! I will look for prosumer then. It kinda figures while ebay bidding on HR-S9600 goes easily hundreds of € and this old bulky ex studio equipment sits there for months without interest for 150€.

Next thing would be decent capture card/box and upscaler. But I guess this is for different thread...

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soucevit

Thanks a lot! I will look for prosumer then. It kinda figures while ebay bidding on HR-S9600 goes easily hundreds of € and this old bulky ex studio equipment sits there for months without interest for 150€.
Next thing would be decent capture card/box and upscaler. But I guess this is for different thread...

Given common DD issues, where those gears aged badly in the 2010s, I find the pricing on 9600/9800/9900 decks to be misplaced in the 2020s.

Studio also means nothing. I worked in studios. We had both crap and treasure. It's just a label. Brands, models, and conditions all matter, but only at the same time. JVC 9600 is good condition, for example. But noting that the eBay idea of "good" can be laughable. VCRshop.nl would be my preference over eBay, though he also sells on EU eBay sites. Europe currently isn't as bad as USA for eBay decks, but you still hear stories. I bought a deck last year that arrived in a black trash bag from a UK seller, no padding, nothing. Guess what happened?

Do not upscale. Quality will suffer.

Do not buy a HD card for SD (VHS/etc) capturing. No Blackmagic.
No Easycap (Easycrap) cheapo Chinese USB cards.
Read these forums before buying the wrong card.

[soucevit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Given common DD issues, where those gears aged badly in the 2010s, I find the pricing on 9600/9800/9900 decks to be misplaced in the 2020s.

Studio also means nothing. I worked in studios. We had both crap and treasure. It's just a label. Brands, models, and conditions all matter, but only at the same time. JVC 9600 is good condition, for example. But noting that the eBay idea of "good" can be laughable. VCRshop.nl would be my preference over eBay, though he also sells on EU eBay sites. Europe currently isn't as bad as USA for eBay decks, but you still hear stories. I bought a deck last year that arrived in a black trash bag from a UK seller, no padding, nothing. Guess what happened?

Do not upscale. Quality will suffer.

Do not buy a HD card for SD (VHS/etc) capturing. No Blackmagic.
No Easycap (Easycrap) cheapo Chinese USB cards.
Read these forums before buying the wrong card.

VCRshop looks decent. Prices are well adjusted as seller that knows what he is doing and how he takes care of each machine prior selling. However on some of the decks price is attacking used cars area... Ebay prices are more friendly but just by a bit. Gamble is I guess in lower price decks or "untested, have no tapes" ones. But even those go over 200€ easily.

You mentioned DD problems. Are those mostly electrical or mechanical related? And how much is this repairable? I am repairing all sorts of electronics my self so all sorts of easy fixes like dried out caps and loose solder joints are piece of cake for me. But if problems are for example bearings on the drum or any mechanical assembly falling apart, could be too much for me to take care of them. Do you also have overview of how is market with spares looking for these? I know we can simply just look for NOS parts sometimes with ridiculous premium, but for example I just bought brand new head drum for Panasonic NV-L20EE i repair myself. But this is common, late 80s, home, 3 head "garbage" VTR with possible much higher production run then top of the line S-VHS recorders we are talking about here. Also drum it self was maybe in all of the Panasonic VTRs of the time making it even more common...

I will give a look other forums about digitizers. Goal for me is format that will make picture look good on modern TVs and will conserve this "forever" I am sure that adding something that is not on the tape will look out of place in any way.

It is just funny, deeper you dig into this, you find so many wrong turns can one make just not knowing or being cheap. This is possibly why I consider doing all work my self and right way even it will end up horendous price per tape.

Thanks for this thread, thanks for your help! You helped a lot with not wasting my time and money on something stupid.

[hodgey]

Just to update, seems the DOC issues with the NV-HS1000 are not limited to just the older revision:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...st#post2564034

Another note, was looking into the service manuals of the AG1980p and NV-FS200. While they look superficially similar, it seems the internals are quite different. The AG1980P seems to actually do much of the video decoding digitally, while the FS-200 has a more conventional setup with standard video decoding circuitry and digital for the TBC and noise reduction system. Maybe this is why the AG1980P is especially sensitive to capacitor issues.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soucevit

You mentioned DD problems. Are those mostly electrical or mechanical related? And how much is this repairable?

DD = dynamic drum, mechanical, no parts exist, no reparable.

latreche has a DD bypass method, but it can be hit-or-miss from what I've read/seen, and definitely not something for newbies.

In time, perhaps we can 3D print new gears, but current 3D tech is too brittle, not fine enough. Tiny plastic gears. My 9800 is fubar, and I'm keeping it for now, hoping we'll someday have 3D parts.

Quote:

It is just funny, deeper you dig into this, you find so many wrong turns can one make just not knowing or being cheap. This is possibly why I consider doing all work my self and right way even it will end up horendous price per tape.

Being cheap it the main problem, with not knowing being next. Too many Easycaps (Easycrap), too many Blackmagic cards. Too many morons on Youtube given bad advice. Too many landfill-quality VCRs butchering tapes, further butchered in capture, and then butchered more yet by uploading to Youtube. So much crap video in the world. You can do better, you should do better.

Quote:

Thanks for this thread, thanks for your help! You helped a lot with not wasting my time and money on something stupid.

Happy to read it.

[soucevit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

DD = dynamic drum, mechanical, no parts exist, no reparable.

latreche has a DD bypass method, but it can be hit-or-miss from what I've read/seen, and definitely not something for newbies.

In time, perhaps we can 3D print new gears, but current 3D tech is too brittle, not fine enough. Tiny plastic gears. My 9800 is fubar, and I'm keeping it for now, hoping we'll someday have 3D parts.

I looked it up yesterday. Pretty cool stuff with all those photos. Have you considered having gears machined out of brass instead of 3D priting? I am not really sure what parameters of gears are. Sure they look tiny, but just searching in my area I found guy that can make gears with minimum height of tooth 2,5mm. For sure somebody can go finer. And I am not much sure about 3D print lasting with such fine texture. But that is quite unknown area for me. Either machining or 3D printing.
Alignment of the drum looks like the main problem aftewards. What I can see is, there are no limit switches and in consumer electronic that usually means current sensed limits. So it basicaly goes to one side until current of motor rises. Cheap to make, gives hard time to gears. Unless there is some way it remembers position even with mains power switched off. But alignment can change all the time and this can stress number of write cycles to memory able to hold information with power off. Maybe if someone with working DD can look if there is movement of the drum to find the limits after power on or something like it? While there is no calibration procedure in service manual it should just somehow find itself. Or should it be part of tracking to find tape playing on normal speed and direction settle this as a middle point for given tape and then do the movements from it?

Now I kinda hope to get one my self. More I read about it more interesting piece of tech these decks are :-)

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soucevit

Now I kinda hope to get one my self. More I read about it more interesting piece of tech these decks are

I'm all for R&D/hacking/mod/repair/etc, but always remember that it's a separate task from usage. Otherwise you get frustrated easily, lose interest in both tasks.

1. Get a known-good VCR for capturing.
2. And then please do attempt to restore those DD decks.

Many of us want our decks back to operational status, but our own ideas and trials have been exhausted. New eyes on the task always helps! And those new eyes could make it a reality for us all.

[hodgey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soucevit

While there is no calibration procedure in service manual it should just somehow find itself. Or should it be part of tracking to find tape playing on normal speed and direction settle this as a middle point for given tape and then do the movements from it?

There is a way adjusting the resting position but you need a special remote that's hard to get a hold of to adjust any of service things.

[soucevit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

There is a way adjusting the resting position but you need a special remote that's hard to get a hold of to adjust any of service things.

OK. You learn new things every day here. Then maybe question for another (new) thread:
Have anybody tried to implement this to genuine HW? (Microcontroller/Arduino/Raspberry..etc.. and IR LED)

https://www.sbprojects.net/knowledge/ir/jvc.php

It is something I can try to implement with PIC at least on breadboard if this have not been proven useless allready. But as stated before. Aquiring working VCR would be first step anyway.

[msgohan]

Is it necessary to reinvent the wheel just for a remote? There are some old posts scattered about that mention using software to program typical remotes to send the Jig RCU commands. I keep meaning to try it.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hd...ptu94023b.html

[hodgey]

Yeah it's certainly possible to get around it in various ways.

I recently picked up one of these JP1 remotes and a FTDI cable, so planning try if I can get the jvc PTU codes working at some point. Planning to test some remote codes for pioneer/sony dvr service remote as well.

[lordsmurf]

It took me years to locate a JIG remote.

[Hambo2000]

Hi there

New member here.

I was just after some opinions on my S-VHS players. I have a JVC HR-S5700AM as my main player and today i was gifted a Panasonic FS-90.

They both work well but which one should i keep and which should i move on? Which one is better? I'm kind of partial to the FS90s pull down face plate but not sure that's reason to keep it - unless they're equal players.

I'd love to get better units as i know they're both mid-range but S-VHS players only ever rarely pop up on E-bay here in Australia. So am kind of limited..

thanks!

[msgohan]

Why get rid of one? Many recommend to have both a JVC & Panasonic.

[Hambo2000]

Hmm maybe i should.. Does seem a bit OTT to have two players tho.. maybe not. thanks

[msgohan]

http://www.digitalfaq.com/editorials...g-workflow.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf's editorial

No single VCR, TBC, or capture card will work with every tape.

Generally speaking:

most consumer VHS VCRs play about 50% of all tapes (at best)
the best/recommended S-VHS VCRs (with internal TBC) play maybe 80-90% of all VHS tapes
but it’s only when you pair specific non-identical brands of high-end equipment together (for example, JVC SR-V10U and Panasonic AG-1980P) do you approach 95-99% playback

[Hambo2000]

So I have discovered that the Panny FS-90 annoyingly doesn't have NTSC playback capabilities! PAL only. [this maybe known but not by me ] Shame as i was learning toward that one. [but need NTSC as I have quite a few tapes in NTSC].

[Eric-Jan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soucevit

OK. You learn new things every day here. Then maybe question for another (new) thread:
Have anybody tried to implement this to genuine HW? (Microcontroller/Arduino/Raspberry..etc.. and IR LED)

https://www.sbprojects.net/knowledge/ir/jvc.php

It is something I can try to implement with PIC at least on breadboard if this have not been proven useless allready. But as stated before. Aquiring working VCR would be first step anyway.

You should go Arduino for that, for PIC you can find enough... but the older schematics will use old PIC types,
and you need to convert to the newer types, which is extra work, if it will work that way, it is lot mor work that way, (programming etc....) Arduino has very good (and better) support, (Adafruit, Sparkfun, for device drivers etc) for chips, and interace protocols, and also Infrared is made easy this way, and easy to setup, Atmega is a better way to go.

[galacticboy2009]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

NTSC

Mitsibishi D-VHS (NTSC)[/SIZE][/COLOR]

These VCRs have all the TBC, DNR, Calibration, Picture Modes and 3D Y-C filters seen on the suggested JVC D-VHS models.

• Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U D-VHS

Mitsubishi is spelled incorrectly at first, then correctly the second time.

Yes I made an account just to leave this typo correction.
Thank you for all you do, I've used this site as a resource for years, just never made an account until now.