VCR Buying Guide (S-VHS, D-VHS, Professional) for restoring video

[aramkolt]

I think it's really only the MiniDV deck that fails on the SR-VS30U, You can actually totally unplug it internally from the power supply and the main board and the VHS side will operate just fine without it being there. Beauty of the SR-VS30U is that a lot of them were probably taken out of service when the miniDV side failed, and there's a good chance that the VHS side wasn't used as much. The SR-VS30U has a loading belt that likes to fail, but it's the easiest ever to change with no tools required after you take the top case off and you can use cheap Amazon variety pack belts to replace them. The SR-VS30U is less known as having a TBC because there's no button on the outside for it, so you do need the remote to be able to enable/disable it is really the only other slight downside. SR-VS30U is also kind of nice in that it has dual outputs for S-Video and composite, so you could technically capture with two different capture PCs/setups during the same playback both via S-Video, which is nice for comparisons. Even the 7600-99xxu's didn't have the dual S-video outputs.

[hodgey]

It's a bit up to preference rather than better worse really but image quality on it's own is generallly good on them yeah, at least personally I'm a bit iffy on the models past 2000 due to several issues with later models. Be aware that some of the very last generation models (with last mechanism) are known to often or always have issues with linear audio so be vary of those if you are doing something that has linear audio (for tapes with hifi audio it's fine.) Some of the early 2000s models before that can have issues with the dropout masking not quite working as one would expect which kinda ruins things as well.

[aramkolt]

I wouldn't say the omission of the dynamic drum is necessarily a bad thing these days, the originals like to fail which can render the entire VCR useless. You can remove the gears that crack and that'll *usually* make it work again.

I say USUALLY because out of the 3 dynamic drum VCRs I've tested, two had bad dynamic drums, one was fixable by removing the gears, one continued to not work after removing the gears, and the last one had an already working dynamic drum. Luckily I had a different model as a known parts unit that wouldn't power up at all and the dynamic drum motor assembly with the gears also removed did bring back the other one.

I'm very tempted to remove the gears on the working dynamic drum unit (disabling that feature) just to lessen the risk that it'll fail and not be fixable.

[wcndave]

I have read all 20 pages, and whilst it's a thrilling read, it's not always clear what models are being referred to, as I think a 7600 NTSC is an 8600 PAL? and so when you talk about 7600, it could be something else... So thinking PAL only, which is more recommended, JVC-HR-S7600 vs JVC-HR-S7950?

The 7950 appears to be 3 years newer and have ET.
I don't think either of those things matter, so I suppose it comes down to quality...

[Benrenewed]

Lordsmurf, you mentioned a while back that you and others would like to have your JVC decks with the Dynamic Drum repaired and operating again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

In time, perhaps we can 3D print new gears, but current 3D tech is too brittle, not fine enough. Tiny plastic gears. My 9800 is fubar, and I'm keeping it for now, hoping we'll someday have 3D parts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

2. And then please do attempt to restore those DD decks.

Many of us want our decks back to operational status, but our own ideas and trials have been exhausted. New eyes on the task always helps! And those new eyes could make it a reality for us all.

Apparently, there's an ebay seller (Natob82) that claims to have figured out how to 3D print some replacement gears for the DD system such that the deck is happy again, while also disabling much of the DD functionality to prevent future failures. I cannot vouch for this seller, but he seems to understand quite a bit about these decks.

Here's the link to the "Dynamic Drum Disabling Service" page: https://www.ebay.com/itm/326096805511

Who knows, there may yet be hope for these long-shelved decks!

[latreche34]

He's probably using my guide to disable the DD system. Anyway, I'm not sure if those pictures are the actual 3D gears or just 3D drawings, The one showing in the video is very noisy due to rough tolerances probably, 3D printed gears both in resin SLA or plastic MDF are brittle, It may work for a little bit but will eventually start to have problems, The DD system has balancing springs, so gears actually have load on them when they move in both direction, They don't just move the head alone, Plus the price is insane.

[lordsmurf]

@latreche34, those are 3D renderings, not photos.

Natob82 sets off lots of red flags. There is a near-zero chance of a 3D printed gear lasting. Furthermore, his claims on "fully rebuilt" auctions are nonsense, especially when you consider how much time goes into the process, and how many supposedly "rebuilt" items he sells. If your BS-o-meter isn't going off, it should be.

EDIT: See this thread: https://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/vid...-ebay-vcr.html

[aramkolt]

I've disabled the dynamic drum on multiple decks using the guide - no 3D printed gears are needed for that as others have mentioned, so saying the gears are "needed" to disable is a beyond disingenuous.

I could see possibly using replacement gears if you wanted that function to work, but it's completely unnecessary for playback and tape transfers, so I personally wouldn't bother.

I will say I once ran into a deck where removing the gears didn't allow it to start working again, but I believe that was either an issue with the motor or the small circuit board since replacing that whole DD assembly with a different one from a donor machine (also with the gears removed) allowed that deck to work again.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

I've disabled the dynamic drum on multiple decks using the guide - no 3D printed gears are needed for that as others have mentioned, so saying the gears are "needed" to disable is a beyond disingenuous.

I could see possibly using replacement gears if you wanted that function to work, but it's completely unnecessary for playback and tape transfers, so I personally wouldn't bother.

I will say I once ran into a deck where removing the gears didn't allow it to start working again, but I believe that was either an issue with the motor or the small circuit board since replacing that whole DD assembly with a different one from a donor machine (also with the gears removed) allowed that deck to work again.

Correct on both counts.

1 - The DD is not "needed" in theory, and yet the de-DD does fail on some decks. Only the presence of a DD makes it work. So, in those cases, the DD is apparently needed. Production changes are likely, revisions, because the 9800 did have a longer shelf life between the ~1996 9600 and the ~1999 9900. But current 3D printing is all too brittle for these kinds of tiny gears.

2 - Yes, the DD can be bypassed, using the method outlined. But it's not 100% either, neither now or in time. I'd estimate at least 1 in 4 of the de-DD fail. (It's actually somewhere in the 25% to 50% range, less than half, more than a quarter, not even sure about third.)

That eBay seller is a charlatan.

[djslava]

Panasonic NV-HD650. When playing backwards fast, the tape tension loosens. The left tension lever works at full strength, but does not do its job (especially when playing E-240 tapes). As a result, the image is difficult to see in reverse accelerated playback. With fast forward playback, this effect is not observed. How to fix it?

[Benrenewed]

Well, now I see my enthusiasm was horribly misplaced. I'm glad I said something!

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

He's probably using my guide to disable the DD system. Anyway, I'm not sure if those pictures are the actual 3D gears or just 3D drawings, The one showing in the video is very noisy due to rough tolerances probably, 3D printed gears both in resin SLA or plastic MDF are brittle
…
Plus the price is insane.

Despite lordsmurf mentioning it in the very post I quoted, I didn't follow that rabbit hole, and totally missed your guide. It's an extremely well documented post, and I learned a ton about the DD mechanism from it!
I'm obviously the newbie here. But every point you made above hits the nail on the head. The only bit I can add is that if he really had 3D printed gears that really worked, he'd be proud enough them to show at least one full set of them sitting on a table or something. That'd certainly be more convincing than computer model renderings.
In light of all of that, yes, the price is bonkers insane for something that's not necessary for the de-DD mod.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Furthermore, his claims on "fully rebuilt" auctions are nonsense, especially when you consider how much time goes into the process, and how many supposedly "rebuilt" items he sells.
EDIT: See this thread: https://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/vid...-ebay-vcr.html

Great point. For most of the ebay listings I've seen, they basically tell you they did nothing to check it. This guy has the opposite problem (which might be easier for a newbie like myself to miss), where he dramatically overstates the work he's performed on the units. You certainly put his claims to task on your linked thread. He uses a lot of words to persuade you, but still like every other seller doesn't indicate how he might've tested the decks.
Even if he did do as much board level repair he claims, the lack of pictures of the internals now stands out to me. Internal pictures in and of themselves are of course no indication of anything (except perhaps no dead mouse), but not including them after allegedly spending many hours on them seems like an obvious miss.


Anyways, thanks for taking the time to answer!

[Traderbam]

Hi, I have a Panasonic NV-HS860 which is based on Z mechanism. There's some other Z mechanism decks available locally but they aren't recommended models. I was thinking of looking at them for parts-only. Are the parts on Z mechanisms mostly the same across all lines (granted the feature set will differ and some boards/components may not exist in cheaper models)?

[aramkolt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traderbam

Hi, I have a Panasonic NV-HS860 which is based on Z mechanism. There's some other Z mechanism decks available locally but they aren't recommended models. I was thinking of looking at them for parts-only. Are the parts on Z mechanisms mostly the same across all lines (granted the feature set will differ and some boards/components may not exist in cheaper models)?

Odds are the main mechanical parts are the same, though they likely will have different mode switches, head drums, and possibly different electronics that control the capstan. That's the case with K-mechanisms anyway. So if you need things like pinch rollers and gears, those other Z-mechs should likely be fine for that.

[SusiTerry]

I have Mitsubishi HS-U778 S-VHS VCR from 2002, how good is that for capture?

[aramkolt]

I've heard the HS-U778 is pretty decent as far as VCRs without line TBC's go. That being the case, you'll probably want to have a DMR-ES10 or similar inline to address tapes that have top tearing or horizontal stability issues that line TBC's often correct.

I think the HS-U778 uses the same mechanism and has similar build quality to the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U which was a D-VHS player that does have a line TBC. Main issues I've seen those have is LCD display dimness, but that doesn't affect playback quality. There are two HS-HD2000U's for sale on ebay right now from the same seller for around $225-$250 shipped, but neither power on which wouldn't surprise me if that is due to capacitor issues.

They may have used lower-tier capacitors (capacitors other than chemicon, nichicon, panasonic, rubycon), but in 2002, premature capacitor failure issues were pretty commonplace due to the capacitor plague in non-top-tier brands.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SusiTerry

I have Mitsubishi HS-U778 S-VHS VCR from 2002, how good is that for capture?

It's the "best" (relative term here) of the low-end units. It lacks line TBC. So not great for the task of converting VHS tapes, it must be paired with an ES10/15 to not look like total crap.

The main problem with Mitsubishi VCRs is the audio quality is very subpar (muffling, distortion), and the units are attuned to SP mode only. So if you have LP or SLP/EP tapes, you'll have playback issues, tracking is hard to lock down.

The remotes for Mitsubishi are also impossible to locate, and certain functions can only be accessed from the OEM remote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

I've heard the HS-U778
I think the HS-U778
They may have used lower-tier capacitors

It would be better to comment on units you've directly used (or at least the sibling models in some cases). I'm not big on hearsay, as that's how myths and misinformation start.

By contrast, I remember when these were still sold new, and on the showroom floor of Circuit City. A good local friend at the time owned one of these, and it was a constant PITA to him. I went JVC, he went Mitsubishi, and he completely regretted the decision. And I've seen other units in the past 25 years, sometimes owning these because it was "too cheap to ignore", but "ignore" would have been a better option. I resold those as rewinder decks.

Quote:

There are two HS-HD2000U's for sale on ebay right now from the same seller for around $225-$250 shipped, but neither power on which wouldn't surprise me if that is due to capacitor issues.

Don't start suggesting people buy broken crap from eBay. That won't end well. That's the kind of cheapskate advice you find on Reddit, and it rarely works out for the person.

[SusiTerry]

I should've said I had one hence why I asked. Yeah I can confirm that the audio is muffled and warped on slower foreign recordings, thankfully it's not the tapes themselves. I just wanted to know how good the stuff I already had was since I couldn't find mentions anywhere. Luckily I have an OEM remote

[djslava]

Good day! And who can tell me what about the Sony SVO-5800 video recorder? It is a PAL model, and I saw it on one of the TV channels, it was installed next to some Sony Betacam.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by djslava

Good day! And who can tell me what about the Sony SVO-5800 video recorder? It is a PAL model, and I saw it on one of the TV channels, it was installed next to some Sony Betacam.

This is not a suggested deck. Those Sony SVO are ancient editor/VTR units, and not optimized for using VHS. Those were strictly for linear editing S-VHS tapes, in various analog settings (independent cable companies, high school media, etc). For example, most of these decks don't understand non-SP mode (LP, SLP/EP) on VHs tapes. The internal TBCs are not comparable to the line TBCs inside recommended JVC/Panasonic units.

Imagine your wife telling you to buy a cat, but you bring home a dog. It's kind of the same (a new pet), but also not at all the same (woof vs. meow).

I would only buy one if:
- you already own recommended JVC/Panasonic decks
- it was cheap (under $500)
- has been fully refurbished by a reputable* refurbisher in recent years

Note: Positive eBay feedback is NOT the same as being reputable. eBay is not suggested anyway, it's a gear dumping ground now.

[djslava]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

This is not a suggested deck. Those Sony SVO are ancient editor/VTR units, and not optimized for using VHS. Those were strictly for linear editing S-VHS tapes, in various analog settings (independent cable companies, high school media, etc). For example, most of these decks don't understand non-SP mode (LP, SLP/EP) on VHs tapes. The internal TBCs are not comparable to the line TBCs inside recommended JVC/Panasonic units.

Hmm... and by what characteristics can you distinguish a VTR from a VCR? Otherwise, I can get confused in professional models.
And then the opposite situation: will the recordings made on these devices be read normally on a regular VCR, or I need to buy such a device for them personally?