VCR Buying Guide (S-VHS, D-VHS, Professional) for restoring video

[mbassiouny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

In the Japanese market there are some Sony consumer-oriented SVHS decks that advertise TBC, such as the WV-DR7/WV-DR9 and Wv-D9000 SVHS/DVCam combos, and the SLV-R7 (which looks to be a fancier variant of the SLV-R5 we got elsewhere.) and probably some more.

I own and owned many Japanese VCRs, including ones from Sony, and particularly the slv-r7 you mentioned. I did not own anything newer than 1998 from Sony, but my conclusion is: yes Japanese market has more items, but not more quality, in fact, many of their VCRs are really really bad. Also, Sony VCRs are the worst based on my personal experience. In particular, the R7 is really inferior to my VX and VXG (all generations!) recorders from kenwood/JVC.

Also, line TBC in very old Japanese VCRs (before 1990 VCRs) are not so good, but in particular, TBC of Japanese sony models I owned were just complete trash, enough reason for me to hate Sony for life, boycott them, and not even bother with their EU/US VCRs. I literally banned Sony products in my life due to their Bad Japanese VCRs (Who knows, maybe it was intentional so you end up hating VHS and switch to their Betamax lol )

(TBC is a loose term etc... do not go for anything that says "TBC", especially in Japan, TBC can mean many things there or anything that does video processing, I have a Japanese "TBC" that complies with macrovision... do not ask me how that qualifies as TBC... same for internal line TBCs!).

Also, most (almost all) units on their market are used and abused, so even the good models are in bad shape, and to make it even worse, many sellers claim selling refurbished decks, their refurb work is internal cleaning with isopropyl alcohol, sometimes head cleaning at best, don't expect much more at electronics level...

side note: I own duplicates of several models (yes I buy by pair or more) and for one particular model, I bought it refurbd in Japan, and another was for parts and got it refurbd locally by a professional. The one refurb'd locally gave much better video quality.

Side note of the side note, I dealt with few jpn refurbishers and they really do a bad job, once I got a deck that had issues ejecting tapes, another had poor image and these are just few examples of many.

Most users here cannot read Japanese, are not Japanese, and probably do not care about Japanese models, but if someone happens to ..., read Japanese forums first before you buy! People in Japanese forums, in conversations from 2005 were aware of my findings about how bad Sony VCRs are (I discovered the posts after I wasted too much money and realized on my own). Sony VCRs are fancy living room vintage decor, (some) Japanese people already knew this, apparently. I only found happiness with my decks after I mixed and matched english recommendations from digitalfaq/videohelp with Japanese discussions from kakaku/5ch.

DISCLAIMER: I am no expert and this is not advice. these are merely observations based on my own experience. You may find happiness with a sony...who knows...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Internal processing. That's exactly it, as is often the case. Almost everything internally processes to some degree, and has since the late 80s.

Some of the US tapes I played in my JVC Japanese VCRs seemed just fine/acceptable, specially after passing through ES10... but I am gonna have to compare to a real US VCR to be sure and comment on this

[Petarkco]

Any thoughts on the PAL JVC HR-S5500AM?

Other contenders are the HR-S6970 or HR-S6800EA.

I'll be using a DMR-ES15 as a TBC.

[hodgey]

Of those I would go for the S5500AM (assuming it's the one from 98/99, not to be confused with the other model named HR-S5500__ from the late 80s which I would avoid). S6970 is one of the last SVHS vcrs they made which were very cost cut, made in china, and some of the very late JVCs have issues with linear audio which may or may not affect this model. The HR-S6800 is from the early 90s and likely needs capacitors replaced and servicing (if it's been serviced and is working fine it might be a decent option though).

[mbassiouny]

But S5500AM doesn't have a line tbc, does it? The fact you are using es 15 as line TBC, does not mean having tbc in the VCR is useless. In many situations, the built in Line tbc might be more suitable than the es10/15.

Quote:

> "(if it's been serviced and is working fine"

Isn't that the case for every VCR now

I would the price to the list, if that HR-S6800 is 10x cheaper than the S5500AM, the equation changes...

Out of curiosity, regarding the AM model, any reason you wanna shed the extra bucks for a multi-standard vcr? (that is, if is more expensive than other options, because am are usually rarer and pricier)

[Petarkco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbassiouny

Out of curiosity, regarding the AM model, any reason you wanna shed the extra bucks for a multi-standard vcr? (that is, if is more expensive than other options, because am are usually rarer and pricier)

It seems that AM models are the only ones on eBay in Australia.

I did go for the S6970 but had to return it was there was no colour on S-Video.

I now have the S5500AM and it's been working great, yes it doesn't have a TBC but the ES-15 seems to be working just fine. Haven't seen any issues.

[djslava]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

[Notes]
Panasonic S-VHS PAL K decks / K-Mech:
Panasonic NV-HD620

I have this VCR, but it doesn't have Super VHS or S-VIDEO. Also, a problematic cassette with a Super VHS recording was checked on it: there were not only black lines on the screen, but there was not even their normal synchronization (only the sound was heard normally). And according to the video: a gray, black-and-white, distorted dark image with white contours. This cassette is no longer available, so I can't show it. But the HD-620 does not read S-VHS.

By the way, there is a problem that torments me the most when digitizing - a damaged control track on the tape and variable tracking on all home video recorders. However, on varial VCR re-tracking starts to be later, on some earlier. Are there devices that can deal with this?

[hodgey]

I think that may just have been a typo or misreading by LS, it's an incomplete list of PAL hi-fi decks using the pretty solid K mechanism, both SVHS and VHS. Only the NV-HSxxx ones are SVHS, and one or two NV-HD like the HD700 have SQPB. The HD620 is a nice hi-fi vcr, I have one, but yeah it's not SVHS nor SQPB so obviously it won't play SVHS recordings properly.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

by LS, it's an incomplete list of PAL hi-fi decks

That is exactly it, an incomplete unverified listing (at that time) in that exact old post from 12 years ago.

[djslava]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

I think that may just have been a typo or misreading by LS, it's an incomplete list of PAL hi-fi decks using the pretty solid K mechanism, both SVHS and VHS. Only the NV-HSxxx ones are SVHS, and one or two NV-HD like the HD700 have SQPB. The HD620 is a nice hi-fi vcr, I have one, but yeah it's not SVHS nor SQPB so obviously it won't play SVHS recordings properly.

Yes, its mechanism is cool and the image is more stable. However, when compared with the Samsung SV-DVD55 (it supports S-VHS, by the way), the picture of the 620 is less sharp, and the colors "float" a little beyond the contours. However, his picture feels more stable: SAMSUNG has more contrast black (which is not always good), sometimes the frame jumps, and (when viewed without TBC) the image is more "very". Although, lately, the 620 has a problem with the left knot: it began to reel up the tape worse. The tensioner works out to the fullest and does not cope. The tape is a little tighter and the image is noisier when played back fast. Is it somehow treated?

[dbss]

This guy wants to sell me the Sony SLV950 i'm not sure if I should go for it looking at these messages. He wants 80 bucks (first listed for 150). What do you think should I go for it? is it any good? does it even have TBC or should I get a DMR ES15?

[mbassiouny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbss

This guy wants to sell me the Sony SLV950 i'm not sure if I should go for it looking at these messages. He wants 80 bucks (first listed for 150). What do you think should I go for it? is it any good? does it even have TBC or should I get a DMR ES15?

What are you looking for, a TBC-ish pass-through device? Then yeah, get the ES10.
A VCR? then neither the sony, nor the ES10.

SLV950 is a VCR/DVD combo. ES10 is a DVD recorder.
If you want a VCR (since you are posting the VCR thread), then get one from the list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Key to characters:

• AG = ?
• AM = multi-format NTSC, PAL, SECAM B
• E = same as EU, without NICAM stereo receiver
  
• EE = ?
  
  
• N = ?
• U = NTSC model, marketed to North America: USA, Mexico and Canada (made in Japan)
• UC = NTSC model, marketed to Canada
  
• UM = ?
  

Hey, so has anyone figured out what <UM> is?
User interface supports English and Spanish, and a user manual is also available in both languages. (JVC does not add languages for the sake of it, they only put the language of the region)
Voltage: Auto, supports 110-220V
Standard: NTSC signal only, not multi-standard.
Plug: US-like plug BUT the device officially came with a US to EU plug adapter included in the box.

I see some units floating in Asian countries (Philippines and Korea), no idea if it was ever marketed/sold to these officially or just eBay and time made these end up there.

<MS> and <S> both are used for French devices (that support SECAM) and the manuals are usually French only, UI is French only, and writing on the device for buttons is French only. BUT it is worth noting that JVC being JVC (i.e poor at naming) used MS for real muli-system devices as well from the HR-J series such as HR-j407MS.
So MS = French if HR-S devices like HR-S9700MS, and other recommended devices (i.e no native NTSC, devices sold in France only), but if HR-J then MS = multi-standard, device is sold worldwide (and therefore has English writing and English manual)

<EE> is for Eastern Europe, manuals for these devices are available in English, Polish, and Czech.
<EA> and <AA> are both for Australia, I do not know the exact difference..., but my guess would be EA the E has something to do with Europe, so maybe these devices were based on E (Europe) devices for A (Australia). I have no Idea what AA would mean exactly tho, one of these AA's is for Australia, the other idk... Manuals for these devices are English only.
Both can do NTSC playback and recording. But EA models mention pal playback on PAL TV, while EA just say NTSC. So it means <AA> are Multi-standard models in Australia

Based on the fact that <AA> is Autralia (and if you figure out what that first A is) maybe someone wants to guess <AG>? I have no idea what it stands for.

Probably that A in AA and AG is the same A as <AM> (A-sth multistandard)
(1)<M> is for Brazil (I guess it came from PAL-M as using B for brazil Will lead to confusion with B: British devices)
(2)<EN>: Argentina, no idea why the E. These models can do NTSC (native) and PAL-N
<UA> is also for Argentina (no not ukraine unlike web domain names), I guess the U is for Uruguay since they are PAL-N as well (or maybe it is the same U in UC?)

Based on (1) + (2) I can guess <N> is for PAL-N so Argentina and Uruguay.
Also based on (1) since M=Brazil, so maybe the M in UM is also the M for Brazil, but with U being an extra letter for something (Devices based on U: US devices) for M (Brazil)?

[dpalomaki]

Quote:

Hey, so has anyone figured out what <UM> is?
User interface supports English and Spanish, and a user manual is also available in both languages.

If "UC" is for Canada, might "UM" be for Mexico or central America given the Spanish?

Isn't Brazil a PAL standard country.

[mbassiouny]

Quote:

> so maybe the M in UM is also the M for Brazil,

This is obviously wrong because Brazil is PAL-M , and U-sth units are NTSC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpalomaki

If "UC" is for Canada, might "UM" be for Mexico or central America given the Spanish?

Isn't Brazil a PAL standard country.

So yes, your guess seems to make sense. Mexico is NTSC and UM devices are NTSC. These devices seem to be available in USA marketplaces as well. So it all makes sense.

Brazil is PAL-M, not regular PAL. It is some PAL with NTSC colors carrier.

[aramkolt]

More basic question which may be buried somewhere else in this thread, but as long as a JVC deck is in the same "series" should it physically behave similarly to the others in the series for playback as long as feature set is stated to be the same in the specs? I get that some units have dynamic drum and TBC while others do not. I understand that build quality can vary, but I'm kind of comparing the 9600u and 9900u and not sure if I should expect playback to be any different on one versus the other before looking to buy one.

Also curious if there's really much of a playback difference on the 8600 series versus 9600 series (as long as feature set for the two compared models is the same) with main difference seeming to be whether the line TBC is 2MB vs 4MB and I don't know if that is really visible to the human eye anyway?

[lordsmurf]

The "same series", maybe, but understanding a series is not determined by the mere number markings of the model.

PAL HR-S8600 and HR-S9600 should be almost identical.

"Visual" has nothing to do with the RAM, in terms of why it exists. People too often think of video only in visual terms, not understanding that video is math, video is signals. The visuals are the byproducts. Bad math, bad signals, bad circuits, image quality tanks.

The 2mb vs. 4mb is mostly about the "give up window" when an error is encountered. You encounter it more often on bad tapes, and the "breaking" can be visual (line timing errors correct, un-correct, re-correct, as the buffers release and fill. But it can be less stark, less obviously visually. In general, it's not something to worry about.

A problem in trying to understand the RAM buffers is that RAM speeds increase over time. So 4mb on a prior model can be weaker than 2mb in a newer model. I don't really care for the older 7600 NTSC decks, but the PAL are always fine.

[dpalomaki]

Quote:

...comparing the 9600u and 9900u and not sure if I should expect playback to be any different on one versus the other before looking to buy one

The second digit (6 vs 9) indicates one is 3 models later than the other, with what ever "improvements" or features JVC implemented over time. I would not expect image quality them to be identical for all tapes, and not all "improvements" and feature changes are desirable. In some cases they may make a machine less desirable. And visible difference will depend in part on the tape being played not to mention aging of the machines. Some may be more problem or maintenance prone prone than others as well. Other users/threads can address which unit is likely to be better if age, use and abuse factors are equalized.

As to the "8" vs "9" the increased memory in the TBC could improve image quality with some tapes, other things being equal, but they may not be. Again, others have much more experience with the individual JVCs than I have.

[hodgey]

If I've understood the technical manual correctly 2 vs 4 mb memory is only relevant for what the tbc can do in "trick play". It's also only the US (and maybe japanese) models that had 4 mb, the PAL ones only have 2 mb. The diff between PAL 8600 and 9600 is in editing features that aren't really relevant for capturing, the playback electronics are the same. From the 1998 models (hr-sx500) and on they're really mostly the same on the lower units of a range too other than the digital IC, though at least some generations the video IC on the lowest end models is different as can be seen in the attached doc for the 1998 lineup. The non-svhs models also lack the tape stabilizer thing that the SVHS variants have (I think it got dropped on some later US SVHS ones too.) In the later years JVC started supplanting their lineup with what seems to be LG and Orion-made vcrs which are course totally different.

[MrRom92]

I’m curious what are the currently recommended JVC VCRs, if many of the currently suggested ones on the list should be avoided due to aging/cracking Dynamic Drum gears?

[mbassiouny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

The 8500 is only fine if it has a TBC with Picture Mode settings. Info on the x500 PAL models has been contradictory over the years. So, for that reason, the 7500, 8500 and 9500 have never been suggested.

Does anyone happen to have an opinion on JVC 8500/9500 PAL?

It has a dynamic drum (which is not exactly a plus nowadays), TBC, nr,etc but I am not sure how good it is.

[peach1200]

Hello everyone,
let me start by saying that I'm a newbie in the vcr world and that I've done my best to read this guide.

long story short: I see all suggested models are mostly out of my budget, at the moment. I've found a JVC HR-S7851 in (seemingly) good working conditions for around €50 and I was wondering if it could be worth buying.
my question is: even without tbc, do JVC vcrs still have a lead over others in terms of image quality? I know it's a very generic question but, given I can't afford higher end models at the moment, does it make sense in general to buy a JVC against other brands?

by the way: thank you for all the advices in this thread!