Advice on line TBC, frame TBC for my workflow?

[enygma]

I'm slowly acquiring parts to build a workflow "worthy of Mordor" for preserving family videos (for example, my wife's family has a ton of tapes).

So far, here's my current equipment:

VHS Equipment:
JVC SR-VS30U (Thanks, LordSmurf!)
An older non-S-VHS VCR for rewinding to prolong the life of my SR-VS30U

Capture Devices:
ATI AIW (Thanks again, LordSmurf!)
Hauppauge USB Live2

Systems:
Windows 11 desktop
Ryzen 5 5600X 3.7 GHz 6-core CPU
32 GB DDR4 RAM

Windows XP Desktop (for AIW card)
3.2 GHz Pentium CPU
1 GB RAM

I realize I need a Line/Frame TBC but I'm unsure as to what to look for. I've read on the forums about the Panasonic ES-15 or ES-10 as well as the Datavideo DVK-200. However, I'm still not sure what to acquire for the best VHS dubs. My goal is to acquire them next year.

Thank you to anyone who can advise me on the next equipment to pick up here!

[lordsmurf]

The Panasonic ES10/15 is a DVD recorder, that contains a strong+crippled line TBC, with non-TBC frame sync. It is not a TBC, nor a TBC replacement. It's a DVD recorder, with the unusual function of passthrough. It adds quality flaws (processing noise) to video, it's not transparent. It's merely a "least worst" (aka "better than nothing") unit to provide some sort of basic TBC-like functionality to a workflow. The quality from the JVC S-VHS VCR will be degraded inside the DVD recorder. The line TBC in the JVC may conflict with the line TBC in the Panasonic. At best, with both line TBCs on, the JVC works, the Panasonic does nothing. The JVC has on/off for line TBC, the Panasonic is always-on (for better or worse). For you, this is not optimal. It's the cheapest option, but you get what you pay for.

Modded/preset DVK is a step up, but it's still not foolproof/flawless in operation. The frame TBC in this "also has" device is weaker, and has "teal screen" problems on bad tapes (especially nth gen tapes, copies of copies). However, pricing is midway between ES10/15 and "real" frame TBC, up to $1k less. So if your tapes are not awful, it can be an option.

There are few specific composite-only TBCs (that must be modded), which slightly reduce sharpness vs. s-video, but can be superior to either ES10/15 type of the weaker/"also has" forms of TBC.

But most ideal is the s-video TBC. Yes, most expensive. But also yes, it gives the last number of issues in usage, and best quality output.

Always be aware that model means nothing in the 2020s. What matters is condition, and prior service/refurb work. There is a lot of bad gear out there now (especially on eBay), generally sold by non-video know-nothings ("flippers").

[enygma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Always be aware that model means nothing in the 2020s. What matters is condition, and prior service/refurb work. There is a lot of bad gear out there now (especially on eBay), generally sold by non-video know-nothings ("flippers").

Oh, yeah; avoiding eBay/Facebook Marketplace like the plague, for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

But most ideal is the s-video TBC. Yes, most expensive. But also yes, it gives the last number of issues in usage, and best quality output.

I'm going to save up a "war chest" of a couple grand in case one becomes available next year. Would $2-3k be reasonable enough?

[aramkolt]

$2-$3k should be more than enough for a frame TBC. I do full recaps/refurbs on TBC-3000/4000's for $250/$300 shipped (to the USA) and you can usually find untested units on eBay for around $1k. LS probably also has some TBCs in that price range as well though.

I personally like the older For.A FA-310's, I have a few already refurbished and recapped, but there's some controversy as to whether they are better than the Datavideo ones or not, they certainly are less expensive and retailed for much more when new. Some posters that have tried both like the FA-310 much better, but I suppose both have strengths and weaknesses. The FA-310 is certainly larger and heavier (probably 20-25lbs). They do have S-Video in and out and also adjustable Y/C delay (datavideo does not have that) which can be pretty helpful if the luma and chroma are shifted horizontally which is actually rather common on second or more generation tapes. Those I'd planned to sell for $600 shipped, but haven't gotten around to listing.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by enygma

Would $2-3k be reasonable enough?

Yes, reasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

$2-$3k should be more than enough for a frame TBC.

I don't know about "more than".

Quote:

I do full recaps/refurbs on TBC-3000/4000's

Caps are not the only issue with DataVideo units. So many "gotchas" these days (90s-00s units in the now 2020s). For the amount spent, it would be awful to buy the wrong unit, or have it not truly be "fixed" after a re-cap job. Both myself and Diopter_Doctor (and others) have run into too many irreparable units.

Quote:

I personally like the older For.A FA-310's, I have a few already refurbished and recapped, but there's some controversy as to whether they are better than the Datavideo ones or not, they certainly are less expensive and retailed for much more when new.
Those I'd planned to sell for $600 shipped, but haven't gotten around to listing.

Lesser units command lesser pricing. "Better than no TBC", and priced accordingly. There's a reason that old "pizza box" type TBCs are completely undesired -- both size and function (with consumer analog sources).