Thanks for your advice Sanlyn - I must admit that I was getting slightly confused with the AGP terminology.
So was I at first. I always knew it as "AGP 3.0". Times change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
I am nearly ready to install and set up the system now but only have 1gb of ram - will this cause an issue for some initial test captures?
1GB is adequate. 2GB would be more helpful for playback/checking captures, but back in 2004 I was using a 1.8GHz intel with 768MB of RAM. Had no problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
Also how best should I capture multiple recordings that are recorded over each other leaving the noise bar between recordings?
I've gone through a boatload of those. Capture as much as you want, cut out the junk later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
Did you mention that I should install XP with SP2 and not SP3?
Lordsmurf recommends SP2. I use XP PC's with both. The newer XP does heavier processing and its antivirus requires SP3. My older captures PC's are SP2. If you're using video apps that require SP3 (my TMPGEnc and a few other apps demand it) you need SP3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
Do I install the drivers you have attached to your last post with virtualdub? Will I then be ready to capture? Is there a dummies guide for how I get started?
The download in my previous post is the AIW 9600 Pro user guide. Use that guide for AIW install instructions. Once you have the AIW working, there are guides in the forum for VDub that you can get to, but you need the AIW first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
Finally if you had a choice between those 2 motherboards, which one would you use?
Without the motherboard specks (bus speed, RAM speed, etc.) it's hard to say. It would appear that both are adequate. The AIW's most of us use were made for mainstream consumer PC's circa 2004, so you don't need a power-hungry PC for capture.
-- merged --
Forgot to mention, you might have overlooked the forum's basic VirtualDuib-AVI capture setup. http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...virtualdub.htm. If you have problems, post the details. Start with short captures, a few minutes, then look it over. When I started out I made 20-minute test captures to get the hang of things.
One of the first things you'll note about this old guide is that it discusses noise reduction and cropping/sizing. Don't even try it, those old filters are way out of date. You can do much better in post processing. A quick capture or two will tell you a great deal, and you can post samples here for evaluation.
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lordsmurf (11-15-2016)
I am finally typing this on my newly installed XP computer with SP2 although it has been a right pain to get it this far as MS have withdrawn support for XP and that means all previous Knowledge Base CAB files have also been removed from their site
Anyways - now that I have XP running and ATI Catalyst installed, I need to do some basic captures - shall I go ahead and install VirtualDub too ?
Also, I know that this isn't a Windows support forum but I have bought a 3TB HDD but Windows can only see 746.5Gb of it making the rest rather useless - any advice on how I can get XP to recognise the larger amounts ? I read somewhere that XP only supports a maximum of 2TB so I might have to do a 2TB then a 1TB format but that would still be better than 746.5Gb ! Thanks for all your help in getting me this far - really looking forward to doing some cool captures !
edit- Sorry forgot to mention - what is HYDRAVISION and do I need to enable it ?
Sorry forgot to mention - what is HYDRAVISION and do I need to enable it ?
I agree 1000% with lordsmurf on this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf
Nope. Useless.
It's for multiple monitors. You don't need (or want) that on a capture box.
I installed it many years back, wasted a lot of time figuring out how to use it, found it mostly useless and a pain in the neck even for other projects, never installed it again, and never missed it on any of my PCs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
now that I have XP running and ATI Catalyst installed, I need to do some basic captures - shall I go ahead and install VirtualDub too ?
Yes. And huffyuv. Meanwhile VDUb capture at default settings works with almost any ATI AGP card. Of course you'll have to adjust frame size and colorspace (720x480, YUY2), compression (huffyuv), frame rate, and video and audio source from the defaults. For a week now I've been working on an updated post about VDub capture for a thread recently provided by lordsmurf. I hope to post something there soon. As stated earlier, all you need for VDub capture are ATI's basic graphics driver, the capture drivers, and the Control Panel. You don't even need MMC or the video player: there are more advanced media players around today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
Also, I know that this isn't a Windows support forum but I have bought a 3TB HDD but Windows can only see 746.5Gb of it making the rest rather useless - any advice on how I can get XP to recognise the larger amounts ? I read somewhere that XP only supports a maximum of 2TB so I might have to do a 2TB then a 1TB format but that would still be better than 746.5Gb !
You should post questions about this in the "Computer" forum (http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/computers/) for more expert suggestions. The short answer is that many motherboards, including new ones for old and new Windows versions, won't support 3TB drives without updates to Intel's RST (Rapid Storage Technology) drivers. This happens on 64-bit systems as well. Inquire in the Computer forum so that this thread doesn't get completely hijacked with non-video matters.
Personally I never use a drive or partition larger than 500MB, although I have some external 1TB drives for storage. For capture and even for many post processing/encoding projects, I wouldn't advise using an active, frequently used drive for that much storage. The thought of losing 1 to 3 TB of video work due to hard drive blips from daily operational stress would force me to choose either a quick poison or several years of post traumatic therapy.
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lordsmurf (08-04-2016)
Hi all - thanks for all your replies. I have now set up the card to the best of my abilities following the instructions given and I have got partially there but only have a BW screen with half and half of the picture visible (see attachment). I am connected with composite source but the results are the same with S-Video so I am now not sure where else I am going wrong...any advice on what I should check further ?
Also forgot to mention that the tape I am playing is LP and I don't yet have a TBC - could this be the reason ?
Edit - I have just tried a SP tape and the same is happening so not sure what I am doing wrong...do I need to do something special for PAL ?
Hi all - thanks for all your replies. I have now set up the card to the best of my abilities following the instructions given and I have got partially there but only have a BW screen with half and half of the picture visible (see attachment). I am connected with composite source but the results are the same with S-Video so I am now not sure where else I am going wrong...any advice on what I should check further ?
Haven't you heard that s-video is usually superior to composite?
Try checking the film speed. Your capture is 15 frames per second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
Also forgot to mention that the tape I am playing is LP and I don't yet have a TBC - could this be the reason ?
LP/SP is not the reason. The tape is a movie. If it's retail, it looks like Macrovision. You need a TBC. And, again, the frame rate is incorrect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
Edit - I have just tried a SP tape and the same is happening so not sure what I am doing wrong...do I need to do something special for PAL ?
We don't know if your tape is NTSC or PAL. I'm afraid you'll have to tell us. Yes indeed you most certainly must do something different for NTSC or PAL.
[EDIT] If you're thinking of deintelacing this tape later, forget it. The movie is telecined. It looks like hard-coded 3:2 pulldown, so likely it's NTSC.
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lordsmurf (08-06-2016)
Apologies for not providing all the information. This movie is in PAL and recorded from terrestrial TV (most of my content is this way but most is in SP not LP).
Yes I knew that S-video is better than composite. I was only trying different inputs to see whether composite was behaving the same as S-Video and it seems that it is.
I have also tried increasing the frame rate to 30fps and tried varying screen size/resolution but this hasn't improved the situation.
Yes I knew that S-video is better than composite. I was only trying different inputs to see whether composite was behaving the same as S-Video and it seems that it is.
True, it's not a bad idea to check. With a few tape players, s-video is actually worse.
in VDub capture, under the "Device" top menu, the ATI chip should be the selected capture device.
Under the "Video" top menu use "Preview" mode, not overlay. If you're capturing at 640x480 you can use Overlay if you want, but it's slower than "Preview".
Click "Video" -> "Capture pin...." and see what's in the "Stream format" window. The "Video standard" for the UK and Ireland is "PAL_I". You might also see the choices listed as "PAL_BDHIG" or similar. In any case, choose the PAL format that has the letter "I" in it. If there is no PAL listing with an alpha letter in it, just choose "PAL" if it's there.
PAL is 25fps.
Your Mitsubishi player is hopefully not set to play and output SVHS automatically. If it is, either turn off SVHS output or set output to VHS, or whatever you have for settings on the Mitsubishi player to play and output plain vanilla VHS.
A note about your 640x480 frame size: If you ever want to make shareable DVD or BluRay, 640x480 is not allowed. Just wanted you to be aware that you'll be limited in that regard. The usual 720x576 PAL frame gives you more pixels to work with, more leeway in post processing (did you notice the thick border on the left?), and can always be encoded for 4:3 or 16:9 display aspect ratio by any encoder anywhere.
[ADDED] Which reminds me...
"Video" -> "Capture pin" -"Video standard" entry space refers to the TV tuner, not specifically to composite/s-video input. If the Video Standard reads "NTSC_M" and has no other choices, it means the card has an NTSC TV tuner. If it says some version of "PAL", it has a PAL TV tuner. You should still be able to change the frame rate to 25fps and the frame size to 640x480 (or 720x576) in the other dialog windows. The TV tuner isn't used from VCR composite or s-video.
Ensure that your external capture wiring is secure. After a little use, that purple ATI junction box's connectors can get a little loose, so make sure everything is shoved in tight and secured to the back of the card. Your AVI sample didn't have any audio, either, just noise. Your audio source should be the sound card, not the ATI card.
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lordsmurf (08-06-2016)
Thanks Sanlyn - for some reason in the VirtualDub package there are two exe files - VirtualDubMod.exe and Virtualdub.exe - I was running VirtualDubMod.exe which runs v1.5.10.2 of VirtualDub instead of 1.9.11 so I could not find Capture Pin under the Video menu.
Anyways - I am now running the correct version and have done another capture checking all settings but I still get the same output (see attached running on S-Video output).
I also do not get any PAL option under Capture Pin (see second attachment) - I am not sure whether the card is incorrectly identifying the stream as NTSC ?
I think I am nearly there but need some help to get me across the line Thanks for all your help and expert advice
The video standard is actually set under Capture Filter, not Capture Pin.
You should be capturing any PAL source with a frame height of 576, not 480, by the way. Most (all?) capture devices lock the frame height selection to the video standard, so you likely have no choice once PAL is chosen. Capturing 480 when the source is 576 will either crop the image, as you have seen, or corrupt the interlace structure by skipping lines or resizing.
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lordsmurf (08-06-2016),
sanlyn (08-06-2016),
willow5 (08-07-2016)
Thanks @Msgohen - I modified the saturation but still not happy with the grainy quality of the colour / general picture quality. Please see attached when you get a chance....is there anything I can do to improve bearing in mind that I do not currently have a TBC...
Don't waste time trying to make anything over 2tb work in XP. Learn to live with a 2tb limit. Best case is the drive works crappily, worst case is it loses its formatting (thus destroying all data on the drive). Don't risk it.
I need to update the VirtualDub guide. Trying to set all NTSC/PAL settings, in all 3 locations, can be easy to overlook -- even when you've been using it for 15 years like I have! (Oops.)
In that last sample, color seems fine. It's standard VHS quality. It just needs mild restoration in Avisynth or VirtualDub.
What VCR was used?
I'm actually more concerned by what appears to be dropped frames. Was that sample from the front of a test capture, or after a few seconds in the middle of the capture?
VirtualDubMod is in our zip/install because it has a narrow usefulness for some types MPEG restoration work.
Thanks for the advice lordsmurf. Will take note of the 2Tb limit and format accordingly. Can I just ask how other members manage with the enormous file sizes? Are the lossless files stored temporarily then deleted after restoration or are they archived permanently? If they are archived permanently then how are they stored? I would guess you would need lots of PB's if you had say 100 odd tapes?
It would be good to update the VDub guide and explain what the various files are in the rar package and when to use each one or perhaps include a readme within the rar?
How do I use VDub to restore? The brightness is lacking and the general quality is grainy - can this be cleaned up? Are there any instructions or beginners guides?
The VCR was a Mitsubishi HS-M1000 (SVHS compatible but the tapes are standard non SVHS). Also please note that I do not yet have a TBC, would this improve the missing dropped frames?
Not sure what you mean by front of a test capture or after a few seconds in the middle of the capture? I simply hit capture while the tape was continuously playing and then hit stop capture afterwards. How can you tell that there are dropped frames?
The video standard is actually set under Capture Filter, not Capture Pin.
msgohan, You're absolutely right, and beat me to the punch in posting the bit about Capture Pin. I was making an image of the Capture pin dialog when our local 'net service was interrupted before I could get back to edit the original post. While our 'net was on the blitz I made more pics of other menus for posting later. Just got back our internet a few minutes ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
Can I just ask how other members manage with the enormous file sizes? Are the lossless files stored temporarily then deleted after restoration or are they archived permanently? If they are archived permanently then how are they stored? I would guess you would need lots of PB's if you had say 100 odd tapes?
Lossless SD captures don't seem that huge to me. I transfer captures to external USB drives for storage and draw off what I need during processing on my main PC. Everything isn't archived: parts of captures are deleted in processing, some are encoded to high bitrate (15mbps) MPEG2, while more priceless stuff usually stays lossless. I don't know of anyone who keeps intermediate lossless work files. My archives are the many DVD's I made and a few external hard drives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
It would be good to update the VDub guide and explain what the various files are in the rar package and when to use each one or perhaps include a readme within the rar?
True, but who will write up detailed usage for each of 100-plus filters, most of which a user would never touch. Descriptions of those extras are elsewhere on the 'net, and many are discussed in digitalfaq threads. Those VDUb filters aren't all that are available and don't include over 200 more frequently used Avisynth plugins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
How do I use VDub to restore? The brightness is lacking and the general quality is grainy - can this be cleaned up? Are there any instructions or beginners guides?
Yes, but they're even more dated than those you saw earlier. Most users learn the details of filtering and cleanup from examples of their use in restoration threads. Many VDub advanced filters such as gradation curves have websites and extensive help and examples. And lots of us just read the filter name or description, pop it into the chain, and watch what happens or doesn't happen.
Below is an image of the original Test3.avi frame 30 (left) -vs- an after-filter version of the same frame (right).
I did very little color correction, but gamma and highlight extension required work with the gradation curve and ColorMill filters in VirtualDub, and I did some edge cleaning and mild sharpening in Avisynth. Raising the midtones and highlights without major changes in black level did a lot to improve perception of the original brightness levels and hues -- a trick that many learned from free internet photo/video correction tutorials for Adobe and Vegas. Much of the noise you mention, however, is due to the dropped and inserted frames mentioned below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
. Also please note that I do not yet have a TBC, would this improve the missing dropped frames?
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
Not sure what you mean by front of a test capture or after a few seconds in the middle of the capture?
I think LS means, is your sample the entire original capture, or did you capture for a longer period and take your sample from the beginning, middle, or end of the longer capture?
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow5
How can you tell that there are dropped frames?
During play, look at the motion noise which occurs intermittently, and mild motion stutter. It's easier to see if you open the video in VirtualDub and view it one frame at a time with the single-frame advance buttons. Viewed frame by frame, you'll see that dropped frames were replaced with copies of previous frames. If you want some numbers from Test3.avi, there are duplicate frames in frame pairs 4/5, 20/21, 31/32, 37/38, 47/48, 54/55, 60/61, 67/68, 74/75, 78/79, 83/84, and 89/90, all of which are pairs of duplicate frames.
Otherwise, frankly, it was pretty good for a first workable capture. I'd stay away from strong denoisers with this tape, however, as dnr or other filtering in your player (it has dnr?) looks as if it's causing some posterizing or motion smear. But more normal frame flow might clear that up.
g;day all,new here.[edit] i hope this is the right place to post] i have been following this thread with much interest as i also have been converting my vhs tapes to digital via sony hi8 video camera .i;ve been trying to capture losslessly with vdub and have come to the [my]conclusion that what goes through the hi 8 can only come out as dv video is this correct?. so one of my ?,is how do i capture [lossless] from my old analogue panasonic vid camera that still amazingly works after 5-6 years of no use and no charge..i have a adapter cartridge which in can play in vhs player [panasonic] if it still works and a panasonic dvd recorder. i did a backup of tapes years ago by playing from video camera onto tv and recording tv onto dvd recorder then burnt to discs,ripped these to computer to cut and trim with nero then burn back to dvd for archiving . lots of losses, i know ! . what is the best way for me to capture with what i have or should i buy a capture card.. this seems to be a very helpful forum so i have made a small donation for your troubles...thanks
I must be doing something wrong then because last night I attempted a capture for approximately 16 minutes and it turned out to be 21Gb - why is it so large and how can I reduce the file size ? If this is the case then extrapolating this data would mean a 3 hour tape would be approx 236Gb, does that sound right?
Thanks for editing my example, it looks better with your filters - please could you provide some brief instructions on how you achieved this ? Should I download Avisynth ? I am a complete novice on this
Also can I ask what is permanently saved when choosing filters during capture ? For example, are the settings in the Video Proc Amp permanently saved with the capture or can they be changed post capture ? Are there any other settings permanently saved during capture ?
On LS's question, the sample was the entire capture I simply hit capture then quickly hit stop to ensure the size was under 99Mb
On the duplicate frames, yes I can see that now - I am getting approx 10% dropped frames, is this too many ? Based on that 16 minute file last night, I had approx 2000 dropped frames.
When you are watching the file back though it is not noticeable - why do they need to be present if they are not noticable when watching the file back ?
Thanks for all your help and expert advice
