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  #1  
11-28-2009, 01:03 AM
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Where to begin...

Newbie. Working with Adobe Premiere 6.5.
Exporting using the MPEG (Main Concept) encoder.
Main source clip is a 57 minute duration .mpg file converted down from Sony AVCHD.
Not editing this or the accompanying audio except for start and end fades.
Trying to overlay some (8) simple stills (graphics for titles) and (12) titles.
Output is DV NTSC 720x480 16:9 30 fps drop; Audio @ 48000.
Task requires 102595 frames. After 60 frames, time estimate is 4 days.
3 attempts so far not past 24 hours before complete "Not Responding" software crash. Editing on timeline within stills is exasperatingly slow (2+ minutes per mouse click on "rubber-banding", etc...)
Hardware is Pentium 4 HT @ 3.6 Mhz; 800 fsb; 2G DDR2 RAM; 250Gb HD

I AM CLUELESS AS TO WHAT I AM DOING AND/OR DOING WRONG!

I don't want to waste your time, but I'm humbly awaiting any constructive input. Will answer questions. Have good attention span. Work for food...
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  #2  
11-28-2009, 04:51 AM
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What are the specs of the source video? Is it still in an HD resolution, by chance? I see you mention it is an MPG file downconverted from AVCHD, but I just want to double-check what the resolution of that new MPEG is.

Beyond that, Premiere and other pro-level non-linear editors (NLEs) are designed for uncompressed or low-compression input (ingest). The MPEG format is usually used as a long-GOP format designed primarily for final product only -- it's not designed as an editing format. There are some exceptions, short-GOP or I-frame MPEG, that are suitable for editing -- but the MPEG compression scheme is still not friendly to NLEs. It takes longer to scrub video on the timeline (rubber-banding, for example), as opposed to low-compression AVI. Or Quicktime on Mac.

I suggest loading your MPEG clips into VirtualDub. Use this one: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...-pre-1727.html
Also install the HuffYUV codec. Since your CPU is hyperthreaded, consider the HuffYUV-MT (multithreaded) version, it might go faster.
It will take a few minutes to open the MPEG. Then re-save it to the HuffYUV AVI file. You won't lose any quality from this re-encode. You're dumping it into a lossless intermediary format, for editing.

You can also resize resolution in VirtualDub, if needed, down to a proper size.

The software crash may be related to either fragmentation on the hard drive, or lack of space. The defragger that comes with Windows is a piece of junk based on the needs of hardware from a decade ago. Download the trial of Diskeeper, which is good for 30 days. (If you like it, buy it. Ask me for an affiliate link.) There may be other problems with the hard drive, but defrag first. If this is an external hard drive, sometimes those spin down after just a short time. If the encode is really taking that long, there may be too much idle delay between writes.

Honestly, it sounds to me like this video is in HD res with MPEG compression, causing the issue.

In Premiere 6.5, pick the DV NTSC or DV PAL template on your new file. Another possible issue if you've set output to a radically different framerate/size/etc from the project template and source.

Be sure you're using the final version of the MainConcept encoder, too. It's available here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...date-1734.html

Since this is actually an editing topic, I've moved this thread out of the authoring/menus subforum.

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  #3  
11-29-2009, 10:27 AM
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See my follow ups inserted below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
What are the specs of the source video? Is it still in an HD resolution, by chance? I don't think so. Size is 720 x 480 and as reported by the AP6.5 project bin. I see you mention it is an MPG file downconverted from AVCHD, but I just want to double-check what the resolution of that new MPEG is. Ok Beyond that, Premiere and other pro-level non-linear editors (NLEs) are designed for uncompressed or low-compression input (ingest). The MPEG format is usually used as a long-GOP format designed primarily for final product only -- it's not designed as an editing format. There are some exceptions, short-GOP or I-frame MPEG, that are suitable for editing -- but the MPEG compression scheme is still not friendly to NLEs. It takes longer to scrub video on the timeline (rubber-banding, for example), as opposed to low-compression AVI. Or Quicktime on Mac. This makes a lot of sense to me...thanks. I suggest loading your MPEG clips into VirtualDub. Use this one: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...-pre-1727.html Did it, Love it! ...thank you. Also install the HuffYUV codec. Since your CPU is hyperthreaded, consider the HuffYUV-MT (multithreaded) version, it might go faster. This was a snap...produced AVI at 60 - 66 fps from my 4.03Gb .mpg. Yielded 42.8 Gb .avi in 28 minutes. It will take a few minutes to open the MPEG. Then re-save it to the HuffYUV AVI file. You won't lose any quality from this re-encode. You're dumping it into a lossless intermediary format, for editing. You can also resize resolution in VirtualDub, if needed, down to a proper size. No need, VirtualDub confirmed the 720x480 16:9 source mpg. The software crash may be related to either fragmentation on the hard drive, or lack of space. The defragger that comes with Windows is a piece of junk based on the needs of hardware from a decade ago. Download the trial of Diskeeper, which is good for 30 days. (If you like it, buy it. Ask me for an affiliate link.) Did this. Worked nicely, even though I had done defrags before. Would appreciate the link. There may be other problems with the hard drive, but defrag first. If this is an external hard drive, sometimes those spin down after just a short time. If the encode is really taking that long, there may be too much idle delay between writes. Honestly, it sounds to me like this video is in HD res with MPEG compression, causing the issue. In Premiere 6.5, pick the DV NTSC or DV PAL template on your new file. Another possible issue if you've set output to a radically different framerate/size/etc from the project template and source. Nope. Used the DV NTSC preset with 2 changes: No REcompress, and optimized frames Be sure you're using the final version of the MainConcept encoder, too. It's available here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...date-1734.html Per the other thread, we are working this out together so I can install - thanks. Since this is actually an editing topic, I've moved this thread out of the authoring/menus subforum.
Thank you for the great help and responsiveness!
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Read more: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/newr...#ixzz0YGNK8fI5
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  #4  
11-29-2009, 10:50 AM
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Well, Adobe Premiere 6.5 is old. I would not feel 100% confident that it understands anything above 720x480, not necessarily. Run your source video into Gspot. This process is briefly mentioned a bit down this page: http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...nd-sources.htm
Let's fully verify what it is or is not, and Gspot will tell you without any guesses/uncertainties.


The 43GB file size seems a tad large, but ~35GB/hour is correct. That all sounds good.

I forgot to mention last time that using uncompressed audio (PCM/WAV) sometimes helps with scrubbing, too. AC3, MPEG audio, etc -- causes some lag, although not nearly as bad as compressed video. Premiere doesn't always understand all audio compressions either, even with DirectShow filters properly installed in Windows.

Oops.... nevermind on Gspot, I see you've mentioned VirtualDub confirmed 720x480. Crossed out my first paragraph.

I'll be sure to reply back soon with the link for Diskeeper. The one I had expired. However, it appears the professional version is available at Amazon right now, boxed version, cheaper than the download version. Maybe get this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B001NA24TQ
I need to buy one for a computer myself, think I might go with the Amazon route on this one -- better deal! (And hey, who doesn't like a good deal these days?)

I don't know that you can use "no recompress" with the MainConcept plugin found in the old version of Premiere. In the new versions, CS3 and CS4, I imagine that would be possible, as it more or less completely replaced Adobe's internal export functions. In the old versions, I think you have to go with one of the other export options. When my system is free, the one still running 6.5, I can try to run a test.

Unfortunately the drive that houses all software installers is down for maintenance, it'll be a few days before I get it back up. Had to do a RAID rebuild on it, and then defrag it, on an offline system. Still not re-inserted it -- have to turn everything off again, take it apart .... yuck. Been putting it off over the holiday weekend.

Thanks for the kudos, several of us, myself especially, work to make this a great forum, to give that one-on-one advice you really won't get elsewhere. We try to avoid the generic info, and then leave you hanging, as is too common all over the Internet. Premium Memberships support this site, so please do upgrade to Premium Member status. And thanks.

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  #5  
11-29-2009, 10:54 AM
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Hmmm..... I also wonder if interlacing has any interference here. I don't know where I'm going with this just yet, but be sure to monitor all interlace-related settings on the project.

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  #6  
11-29-2009, 06:17 PM
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Before doing all this, I managed to get an 11 minute segment of the timeline out and in great shape...although it took 4-5 hrs. It was in an area past my overlayed stills with just titles appearing for 5 secs at a time.

I tried to import the HuffYUV-mt .avi output from VirtualDub to replace the .mpg I was using in Adobe Premiere 6.5, but AP6.5 rejected it as "Unable to open that file. File uses an unsupported compression format." So what now? Use VirtualDub with another .avi codec? Maybe the HuffYUV without MT? Or another more generic .avi codec that's not too lossy? I'm kind of stuck now.

By the way, it wasn't a problem selecting the "No Recompress" option from the AP6.5 project settings for video.
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  #7  
11-30-2009, 08:22 AM
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Yes, try the plain non-MT HuffYUV codec. You may need to restart the computer after install, so that Adobe will see it added to the system. That could even be the issue with the MT version, if you did not reboot.

The no recompress option is reserve for formats like DV, where you can import a DV stream, chop out some unwanted pieces, and export the new version without re-encoding it. It should work for HuffYUV too. Picking that option in other scenarios (MPEG input, for example) will be ignored by Premiere -- it has to re-encode/re-compress.

Completely uncompressed YUY2 AVI is an option, too. The files are about 75GB/hour, however. If you have hard drive space, it's not an issue.

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  #8  
11-30-2009, 12:33 PM
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Diskeeper sent me updates on a special today: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...tion-1830.html
$50 for a two-pack, good deal worth considering.

Hope that helps.

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  #9  
11-30-2009, 04:16 PM
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Yes, try the plain non-MT HuffYUV codec. You may need to restart the computer after install, so that Adobe will see it added to the system. That could even be the issue with the MT version, if you did not reboot. Hmmm...I'm not sure I did. I'll try again; else will go to plain HuffYUV codec
The no recompress option is reserve for formats like DV, where you can import a DV stream, chop out some unwanted pieces, and export the new version without re-encoding it. It should work for HuffYUV too. Picking that option in other scenarios (MPEG input, for example) will be ignored by Premiere -- it has to re-encode/re-compress. Got it...thanks.

Completely uncompressed YUY2 AVI is an option, too YUY2? . The files are about 75GB/hour, however. If you have hard drive space, it's not an issue.

Anything further on the MainConcept 1.4 Special install? Alternatively, I guess I could just give my version another go.
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  #10  
11-30-2009, 04:26 PM
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See my inquiry in red:

Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
Well, Adobe Premiere 6.5 is old. I would not feel 100% confident that it understands anything above 720x480, not necessarily. Run your source video into Gspot. This process is briefly mentioned a bit down this page: http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...nd-sources.htm
Let's fully verify what it is or is not, and Gspot will tell you without any guesses/uncertainties.


The 43GB file size seems a tad large, but ~35GB/hour is correct. That all sounds good.

I forgot to mention last time that using uncompressed audio (PCM/WAV) sometimes helps with scrubbing, too. AC3, MPEG audio, etc -- causes some lag, although not nearly as bad as compressed video. Premiere doesn't always understand all audio compressions either, even with DirectShow filters properly installed in Windows. Should I uncouple in VirtualDub and save out the audio separately? WAV will be huge (the full 57 mins). I'm not sure I know how to re-sync. Sorry for the Newbie question.

Oops.... nevermind on Gspot, I see you've mentioned VirtualDub confirmed 720x480. Crossed out my first paragraph.

I'll be sure to reply back soon with the link for Diskeeper. The one I had expired. However, it appears the professional version is available at Amazon right now, boxed version, cheaper than the download version. Maybe get this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B001NA24TQ
I need to buy one for a computer myself, think I might go with the Amazon route on this one -- better deal! (And hey, who doesn't like a good deal these days?)

I don't know that you can use "no recompress" with the MainConcept plugin found in the old version of Premiere. In the new versions, CS3 and CS4, I imagine that would be possible, as it more or less completely replaced Adobe's internal export functions. In the old versions, I think you have to go with one of the other export options. When my system is free, the one still running 6.5, I can try to run a test.

Unfortunately the drive that houses all software installers is down for maintenance, it'll be a few days before I get it back up. Had to do a RAID rebuild on it, and then defrag it, on an offline system. Still not re-inserted it -- have to turn everything off again, take it apart .... yuck. Been putting it off over the holiday weekend.

Thanks for the kudos, several of us, myself especially, work to make this a great forum, to give that one-on-one advice you really won't get elsewhere. We try to avoid the generic info, and then leave you hanging, as is too common all over the Internet. Premium Memberships support this site, so please do upgrade to Premium Member status. And thanks.
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  #11  
11-30-2009, 04:33 PM
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Version 1.3 may be the final version that was intended for Premiere (the "special" version for Adobe). Do you know which one you have? Earlier versions than v1.3 have known issues.

I'm uploading Adobe's MainConcept 1.3 in the other thread right now. Should be available in a few minutes.

YUY2 -- VirtualDub also calls it "Uncompressed RGB/YCrCb". It's the top option under the video compression settings.

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11-30-2009, 04:37 PM
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Yes, save out WAV separate from video-only AVI, for the best experience. Be sure to select NO AUDIO when doing the AVI save -- it's under the audio menu in VirtualDub. And then do FULL PROCESSING mode when saving out the WAV only. Go to File > SAVE WAV for that process. You simply import both streams separate in Premiere. Drop video on video timeline, audio on audio timeline. There should not be sync issues unless you don't line them up on the timeline. Zoom in to 1-frame distance to really check. Note that sometimes audio or video may be a few frames different in length, not an issue.

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  #13  
11-30-2009, 09:18 PM
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Ok, I downloaded the MainConcept 1.3 for my Adobe Premiere 6.5. But, since I had already installed 1.4 and attempted the serial number authorization, 1.3 now won't install until I un-install (remove) 1.4. The problem is, I can't find anywhere to uninstall the MainConcept 1.4 encoder...known to Add/Remove Programs as "Adobe MPEG Encoder", but I'm not sure I should "remove" or uninstall this since we are working with an update. There is a repair option but it looks for "Adobe MPEG Encoder.msi". I found the .msi file for the 1.3 beta, but it won't open by the repair function because it isn't named the same. Should I just rename the 1.3 to conform so it aliases the repair and commits the update this way? Or what...?
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  #14  
11-30-2009, 09:24 PM
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What would happen if you tried your Adobe Premiere serial in version 1.4 MC?

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  #15  
11-30-2009, 09:30 PM
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p.s. I have the MainConcept 1.03 - yeah, really !
So, is that bad?
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11-30-2009, 09:31 PM
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I'll try...
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11-30-2009, 09:36 PM
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Nope! My AP6.5 serial number is not valid for the 1.4 update.
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  #18  
11-30-2009, 09:42 PM
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You'll just need to uninstall what's there and install version 1.3 instead. I can't think of anything else. If you don't like the Windows built-in uninstaller, then use the one in CCleaner. (The "tools" option page.)

CCleaner is freeware, available at http://www.ccleaner.com/download
Shown at http://www.ccleaner.com/screenshots/tools-uninstaller

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11-30-2009, 10:11 PM
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Ok...I don't have a problem with the Windows installer, I just wasn't sure I should get rid of it...if it needed to be there for an update. I guess if worse comes to worse, I could re-install the AP6.5 and start again. I'll let you know how it goes.
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  #20  
12-01-2009, 02:45 AM
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Here's an update.

I was able to successfully uninstall the Adobe MPEG Encoder and update to the MainConcept 1.3

I was able to save the AVI from VirtualDub using the plain non-mt HuffYUV codec. 42Gb in only 28 mins. And Premiere accepted this import extremely well. No more sluggish behavior in the timeline editor. Fast preview renders (11 fps), rubber-band adjusts and scrubbing. Yeah baby!

Now the last part to do before I can get the timeline ready for export using the newer MPEG encoder...

VirtualDub won't let me save out the audio WAV (source1) because it says "No audio decompressor could be found to decompress the source audio format". (remember, I am using an MPEG-2 source clip).

...any ideas??
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