Issue with Sony brand Video8 tapes, or is it?

[EdmCan]

Hi all,

New to the forums, I did try and search for a topic related to my issue but came up short.

I hope I'm posting in the right place

With that said...

My dad passed away last fall and I ended up taking our 8mm video8 tapes and camcorder, to eventually

convert to digital. I have successfully converted 13 of the tapes, the other half not so much.

The 12 other tapes are all Sony brand tapes, they do have perfect audio, but no picture, just black.

The 13 I did convert were not Sony brand tapes, Example: Kodak,Blacks,TDK,Memorex,Fuji,Genexxa.

All the tapes were recorded on the same camcorder, A Sony CCD-TR30, which I used to convert the 13

"good" tapes.

I cleaned the camcorder head manually multiple times over the period of converting the tapes. Some of the

tapes, not all, you could see minor dirt, and stain like formations on the tapes, which I did clean in areas

that were bad, and it worked.

But no matter what I did with the Sony brand tapes (some tapes looked flawless) I could not get picture to

come through.

After trying to find info online which is limited, I decided to just play a Sony tape, and while it was in play

mode, tap the rewind button, let it play a couple seconds, then tap the rewind button roughly to the same

spot, let it play a couple seconds, over and over. Eventually I started seeing bits of picture coming through.

I did this with a couple tapes(just sections of the tape) and it took forever to do even a few minutes worth of

video, and in the end, the picture was not clear by any means, it had some snow effect and some horizontal

lines. But this told me the picture is still there, just have to bring it to the surface, the right way, so to

speak. I have a feeling this way can't be good for the tape or the camera.

I'm thinking this could be an alignment issue with either tape guides or the head itself, or maybe the

composition of the tape. I have read different companies used different types of tape compositions.

I think my only option left, would be to try a video restoration company but going rates are pretty pricey, to

restore the 12 other tapes, if possible.

I'm out of ideas, and a noob in this area. Any suggestions are most welcomed.

Note: Tapes are from 1994-2003

Sony tapes used in 1990's - 2000's have no picture, but perfect sound.

Other brand tapes used in the 1990's - 2000's minor issues/some tapes playback perfectly.

Tapes were done in no particular order, if there was black screen I would try another tape.

All tapes were stored together.

Sorry for the long post, double spaces, my eyes are not the greatest! Wanted to explain the best I could

Thanks in advance!

[msgohan]

Cutting down to some essentials for other readers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdmCan

I have successfully converted 13 of the tapes, the other half not so much.

The 12 other tapes are all Sony brand tapes, they do have perfect audio, but no picture, just black.

The 13 I did convert were not Sony brand tapes, Example: Kodak,Blacks,TDK,Memorex,Fuji,Genexxa.

All the tapes were recorded on the same camcorder, A Sony CCD-TR30, which I used to convert the 13

"good" tapes.

...

Sony tapes used in 1990's - 2000's have no picture, but perfect sound.

Other brand tapes used in the 1990's - 2000's minor issues/some tapes playback perfectly.

Sound but no video seems like a weird symptom to me.

What device are you using that shows this black screen? This is important because anything that digitally samples will puke on particularly malformed signals and drop to blue, black, etc. Mind you, certain camcorders and many VCRs will do the same thing to hide garbage signals.

I found this but I dunno if it's even relevant:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci....0/cKZfVOEIdR8J

Are you absolutely certain they were all recorded with this camcorder and that the Sony tapes weren't recorded on a Hi8 model?

[EdmCan]

Hi, thanks for the response!

The device that I'm using that shows black screen with the Sony tapes, is our Sony Handycam video8 model

CCD-TR30.

I am using this Handycam to capture the video, which works for the 13 non Sony brand tapes.

All 25 tapes were recorded with this camcorder, I'm 100% sure of this. Some of the tapes were mine but

kept with the lot of them.

I can pop in any of the non Sony brand tapes and there is picture, then right after, pop in a Sony brand tape

and there is nothing (no video through camera lens).

When I do get some picture to come through on the Sony tapes by playing, rewind, playing, rewind, multiple

times while the camera is in playmode, as stated in original post, then I start thinking it might be an

alignment issue. Also the picture

that comes through stays there, it does not go black again. This is weird...

I could try to find another handycam from around that time and see if it's the Handycam, but I have my

doubts.

Edit: I think i'm going to try take it apart and give it a thorough cleaning and see if that makes a difference.

[msgohan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdmCan

The device that I'm using that shows black screen with the Sony tapes, is our Sony Handycam video8 model

CCD-TR30.

Let me try again: What display(s) have you hooked the camcorder up to that are showing a black screen?

Do you have a cell phone or other camcorder that would allow you to take a video showing what you mean regarding play/rewind/play to get it to display a picture?

[facp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by msgohan

Are you absolutely certain they were all recorded with this camcorder and that the Sony tapes weren't recorded on a Hi8 model?

That's the first thing that came to my mind too. Must have been recorded on a Hi8 camera instead of Video8.

[EdmCan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by msgohan

Let me try again: What display(s) have you hooked the camcorder up to that are showing a black screen?

Do you have a cell phone or other camcorder that would allow you to take a video showing what you mean regarding play/rewind/play to get it to display a picture?

The video camcorder which is the source has the black screen. So it does not matter what is hooked up to it.

If there is no picture from the camcorder itself, it's not going to show up on another display, in my case

anyways. I have it going through diamond capture device, using virtualdub through PC.

I just made a video showing my issue with Sony tapes.

You will see it's black, with audio, in playback mode. Then you will see blue screens off and on, that is me

tapping the rewind button on my video camcorder while still in playback mode ( not pressing stop then

rewinding)

you can see how the picture is gradually coming through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SEU6Xru0_k

This one is from one of my non Sony brand tapes, Black's memories tape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xsAIWu3J9Q

[EdmCan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facp

That's the first thing that came to my mind too. Must have been recorded on a Hi8 camera instead of Video8.

If this is a Hi8 camera then yes, it's possible

http://imgur.com/l4z80gt

If these tapes are Hi8 then yes that could be the problem also

http://imgur.com/H8RM4G1

http://imgur.com/4d9E5DL

[bever]

Sony CCD-TR30 is per sony user guide on the web an analog video and audio camcorder.

the Hi 8 successor purported to be backward compatable to video 8 had a provision for digital audio

original poster says it was recorded and played back on same camera.

jostling the camera brings glimpses of the tape.

Tapes in question are different brand. Are they Sony MP120? if not what specific tape part # are they?

some loading issues posted on you tube for these cameras try remove battery reinstall then try sony tape again.

my hunch tape has slightly different case dimensions than other brands camera not able to align tape now for whatever reason.

another tactic take tape out of sony case and put in to different case different brand which works.

I loves me a good mystery.

[EdmCan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bever

Sony CCD-TR30 is per sony user guide on the web an analog video and audio camcorder.

the Hi 8 successor purported to be backward compatable to video 8 had a provision for digital audio

original poster says it was recorded and played back on same camera.

jostling the camera brings glimpses of the tape.

Tapes in question are different brand. Are they Sony MP120? if not what specific tape part # are they?

some loading issues posted on you tube for these cameras try remove battery reinstall then try sony tape again.

my hunch tape has slightly different case dimensions than other brands camera not able to align tape now for whatever reason.

another tactic take tape out of sony case and put in to different case different brand which works.

I loves me a good mystery.

Thank you for explaining my issue and what I was doing to get picture to appear, perfect!

I'm terrible at explaining stuff.

The tapes(12) in question are the Sony MP120 and HG120, the above photos I took last night, and uploaded

them.

Today I tried what you said to do with switching tape to a working tape case, but still same thing, black screen.

I put the good tape from the working tape case into the Sony tape case and it worked fine.

Also out of the 25 tapes, we have 2 Fuji Hi8 tapes and 1 TDK Hi8 tape and playback works fine.

I read somewhere about loose oxides on the tape after sitting for a period of time. They say to fast forward

and rewind the tape a couple times start to finish so they fall off... I've tried that and same result.

Maybe it is some sort of oxide or "film" you can't see that's on the tape, and when I'm

jostling the camera it's slowly removing it? The picture does stay after it comes through.

[bever]

EdmCan

Quote:

Thank you for explaining my issue and what I was doing to get picture to appear, perfect!

I'm terrible at explaining stuff.

I am absolutely not trying to explain your issue I was trying to be methodical.

Quote:

Today I tried what you said to do with switching tape to a working tape case, but still same thing, black screen.

I put the good tape from the working tape case into the Sony tape case and it worked fine.

Good effort. A little disappointing that you came up with the same results. I was betting on this. Does this rule out the difference in case dimensions on the offending tapes causing the problem? Not sure but it is good info.

Quote:

The tapes(12) in question are the Sony MP120 and HG120, the above photos I took last night, and uploaded them.

I guess glossed over the fact that you the OP added these photos.

Quote:

I read somewhere about loose oxides on the tape after sitting for a period of time. They say to fast forward

and rewind the tape a couple times start to finish so they fall off... I've tried that and same result.

Maybe it is some sort of oxide or "film" you can't see that's on the tape, and when I'm

jostling the camera it's slowly removing it? The picture does stay after it comes through.

I am not leaning toward oxides or film but I am not an expert on the subject. It just occurred to me another avenue to pursue. what if the camera due to its age is not putting enough back tension on the supply reel so as to bring intimate contact between the tape and scanning head. Check the brake pad on the supply reel. It would be nice if you had access to another camera video 8 or Hi 8 to verify your sony tapes. I dont know why swapping tape cases wouldn't make the tapes look the same to your camera.
Also you probably have a pinch roller look at that. Ideally it wont look all glossy or dirty. Maybe the sony tape is extra slippery.

[EdmCan]

Think I may have found the issue, which would have saved a bunch of forum space..

Was playing one of the Sony tapes, was not jostling the tape, and a couple seconds of image appeared. Then

back to black screen. First time this has happened.

Took the tape out and inspected that area of the tape. I did inspect all the tapes during capturing videos,

and the Sony tapes appeared consistently different compared to the other brands.

Didn't think much of it seeing that the Sony tapes all looked the same.

First 2 photos show the appearance of the non Sony brand tapes. Look pretty good and work.

http://imgur.com/gfzppF0
http://imgur.com/yWMD7tl

This photo shows how all my Sony tapes look.

http://imgur.com/eRUAGly

The next 2 photos show where I saw the 2 second image come through.

http://imgur.com/tseGxGq
http://imgur.com/rNoAd0h

You can see the grainy appearance, then a clear area, and back to grainy.

I tested a spot with isopropyl, to try and remove some of the grainy areas, but no change.

I'm thinking corrosion or Quicker deterioration + the elements over the years at this point.

[bever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdmCan

Note: Tapes are from 1994-2003

Sony tapes used in 1990's - 2000's have no picture, but perfect sound.

Sorry to see that your tapes appear damaged.The audio works so maybe there is still a possibility of extracting the video data. Looking at the pictures it does look like something is not right with the sony tapes.

Quote:

I'm thinking corrosion or Quicker deterioration + the elements over the years at this point.

I would still try a different camera when you have a chance although it may be a long shot. I would google sony tapes and deterioration. I just did and Wikipedia the sometimes good info site has something to say about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky-shed_syndrome

[bever]

Well it happened. I reply to a post which I only have some general and no specific knowledge about Video 8 tapes. I am thinking I am so glad that I will never have to deal with these tapes. Then a few days later I am gong through my fathers audio cassette tapes I inherited over 5 years ago and what is in there but a Digital 8 tape I dont know if it is blank. It doesnt appear to have Sticky-shed syndrome even though it is a Sony MP-120. Itg has a nice curl to it at least in the beginning of the tape. I have included a picture.

[facp]

I have numerous video8 tapes like that and some pretty banged up. Never had a problem playing it on a Sony CCD-TRV66 and a DCR-TRV340. They all play back fine. As others suggested, try another camera if you can get one.