BVTBC10 quality tests?

cowmix · #1 02-13-2023, 09:08 AM

I just picked up a KeyWest Voo Doo BVTBC10 and it is en route to my home now.

I know this unit probably junk (as indicated by many posts in this forum) however I would like to know what are the exact quick tests I should to verify if I have a "good one" or a "bad one".

For instance, top of my list is to see how it handles JVC vcr menus. Is there anything else I can do to verify the quality of the unit?

thx!

lordsmurf · #2 02-13-2023, 09:15 AM

Good for you, where'd you get it?

For the immediate, focus on two tests:
- noises
- JVC menus

If those pass, which many will not, then focus can be more granular. For at least one of those tests, you'll want tapes with known aggressive anti-copy, as it's easier to observe problems.

One you move past noise, and JVC stability, you'll run into more pervasive instablity.

cowmix · #3 02-13-2023, 10:47 AM

I got it from some rando off of OfferUp in NYC -- so my hopes are not super high.

So for the JVC test, I just need to go into the menuing system -- if those capture well that test is passed?

For noise, just capture a tape with and w/o the VooDoo -- and if the VooDoo looks about the same -- that's good too?

Finally, for the anti-copy stuff --- should any VHS movie from the early 90s cut it?

BTW, I have a Panasonic DMR-ES10 and a Sony HXD870 to put into the workflow as a comparison.. I know they are not the same as a TRUE TBC but it will be interesting to see how they stack up.

lordsmurf · #4 02-13-2023, 12:29 PM

Capturing not needed for menu, just view.

Noise will be obvious. But preview large, not a tony window where you can't see anything. Perhaps run that test on a large TV.

No, not any random tape. As an example, certain copies of certain episodes of The Tick cartoon. Or sometimes Mortal Kombat movie. You'd have to list out all available retail tapes in a collection. And no, the idea of Disney and Star Wars being worst anti-copy is not that accurate.

cowmix · #5 02-13-2023, 12:58 PM

I just ordered a Young Indiana Jones VHS tape (1995) as referenced in on of your earlier posts. Hopefully that copy will have insane Macrovision applied.

mrmuy97 · #6 02-13-2023, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowmix

I just ordered a Young Indiana Jones VHS tape (1995) as referenced in on of your earlier posts. Hopefully that copy will have insane Macrovision applied.

Got a link for that post by chance? Haven't seen that one before and that'd be great info to reference.

cowmix · #7 02-14-2023, 08:31 AM

One of a few I came across:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...html#post88140

cowmix · #8 02-17-2023, 02:50 PM

Factory sealed, ready for this weekend's tests.

mrmuy97 · #9 02-18-2023, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowmix

One of a few I came across:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...html#post88140

Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowmix

Factory sealed, ready for this weekend's tests.

Eagerly clicked on this pic as I thought you meant the TBC

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

you'll want tapes with known aggressive anti-copy, as it's easier to observe problems.

One you move past noise, and JVC stability, you'll run into more pervasive instablity.

Additional question on MV: In the S7500 I see the dedicated "MV/CM ADV PWB" board (~2"x3"). Any idea if that's related to Macrovision processing? I was thinking the "MV" is coincidental -- if MV wasn't meant to disturb the TV's display of the output, and it was desired to screw up a VCR trying to record the input, then it works entirely passively with no need for any special hardware/software in a VCR, correct?

What is it that makes the tapes with the more "aggressive" anti-copy good for testing a TBC? Would those tapes cause video issues if you were to watch them straight from the VCR on a TV back in the day, or are the issues only seen now when attempting to capture/digitize?

hodgey · #10 02-18-2023, 07:33 PM

That's for the movie/commercial advance feature, nothing to do with macrovision. MV doesn't need anything specific in the VCR to work, it's part of the video signal.

cowmix · #11 02-18-2023, 09:50 PM

So here's the first test with a SIMPLE workflow:

HR-S4500U (JVC) -> BVTBC10 -> Intensity Shuttle (ProRes capture) -> Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kcR5IFlPYc

What does everyone think?

Hushpower · #12 02-18-2023, 10:59 PM

That crease in the image about 10% up from the bottom is a big worry. It could be the tape, but unlikely if it is brand-new. Try taking the BVTC10 out of the workflow to see if it is that.

lordsmurf · #13 02-19-2023, 12:13 AM

Thar wrinkle is 99% likely a tape error.

The bigger issue is something is hot, overexposed. I dislike BM cards, but that's not a fault. However, it's an issue with some mid BV10 units. There are ways to counteract it, but I have to run settings tests with my calibrated setup. I've come across a few units that were just bad. I don't think anything aged, but rather QC at BV was essentially not there.

I don't think Youtube did anything but crap compression, above issues not affected by Youtube.

hodgey · #14 02-19-2023, 05:29 AM

Looks like the TBC has brightness/contrast to adjust that to avoid clipping? The BM has too if it's clipping at that part.

cowmix · #15 02-19-2023, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowmix

I just ordered a Young Indiana Jones VHS tape (1995) as referenced in on of your earlier posts. Hopefully that copy will have insane Macrovision applied.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Thar wrinkle is 99% likely a tape error.

For sure. I tried the tape on a few VCRs and the line was there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

The bigger issue is something is hot, overexposed. I dislike BM cards, but that's not a fault. However, it's an issue with some mid BV10 units. There are ways to counteract it, but I have to run settings tests with my calibrated setup. I've come across a few units that were just bad. I don't think anything aged, but rather QC at BV was essentially not there.

I don't think Youtube did anything but crap compression, above issues not affected by Youtube.

Yeah, there could be these issues (like I said, this was a QUICK test -- plugged into rando JVCs I own).

However, is it safe to say this unit as passed some of the BIG tests? It seems to have passed the JVC menu and basic Macrovision tests? ... or does my youtube clip still not demonstrate that?

lordsmurf · #16 02-19-2023, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

Looks like the TBC has brightness/contrast to adjust that to avoid clipping? The BM has too if it's clipping at that part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowmix

However, is it safe to say this unit as passed some of the BIG tests? It seems to have passed the JVC menu and basic Macrovision tests? ... or does my youtube clip still not demonstrate that?

The rough (still fallible) JVC menu test is for chipset and stability issues. The chipset passed. Stability issues can still exist, more pervasive.

The anti-copy test is not conclusive. It has merely narrowed it down to possible pervasive issues.

BV is a legal level device, so some "clipping" (removing illegal values) does occur. And yet, overly aggressive clipping can be something that shunts it into a "not worst, not best" category of BV.

There are models with AGC issues. But it's not a case of a unit having A, or B, or C. But rather A+B+C = the middle units. More nuanced use is suggested. Anybody that buys my gear knows that I interrogate them about the potential sources to be ingested, so I can ascertain the minimum required gear. Middle gen BVs need specific homes.

There are sometimes nuances, ways to calibrate out issues, certain settings combos. Sometimes board-level fixes. The BV gear had customizations possible, as well as production changes. So the units are not all "the same" but instead variable. Without hands-on experience, there's only so much that can be conveyed online, caught, resolved.

Sometimes finding items in the wild is exciting ... but then what?