NTSC tapes play in black & white in PAL country?

[Boppo]

I have a problem with NTSC tapes playing in black & white.

The tapes I have problem with are recorded NTSC tapes bought in a country with NTSC. I live in a PAL country. I know the tapes are in colour as I used to be able to play them with the old VCR I had.

The tapes plays in black & white on TV and PC.

VCR: Panasonic NV-VP23 (capable of playing NTSC)

I've tried to connect to the TV using scart-scart. I tried with several different cables.

I've tried to connect to PC using Elgato Capture Device. Connection to VCR using composite-cables (red/white/yellow) and also tried to connect to scart.

How can I make the tapes play in colour? The important thing is that they are played in color on the PC.

[latreche34]

You need to set your VCR to output PAL60, You can't just insert a tape and expect color, If you don't have the remote control you probably can't change this setting, Consult the user manual for your model.

[Boppo]

What I did was I got another VCR. It plays the NTSC tapes in colour on a TV.
I just need the VCR to play the tapes connected to my PC using Elgato video capture. However Elgato gets only audio and no video signal when playing the NTSC tapes. Tried connecting using composite-cables (red/white/yellow) and also tried to connect to scart.

Elgato video capture supports PAL and NTSC.

I've tried changing the Elgato settings to <TVFormat>PAL60</TVFormat>
https://help.elgato.com/hc/en-us/art...ders-PAL-SECAM

What else can I try?

[latreche34]

Contact Elgato, my guess is it does not support PAL60.

[Boppo]

Elagato Video Capture do support PAL60.
https://help.elgato.com/hc/en-us/art...eo-Capture-Use

I've tried to call Elgato several times. Always the same "no support agents are available". I've sent them and email and they will respond in 3 working days...

-- merged --

I'm using Universal DVD Remote Control (Android). The control works fine. The Panasonic VCR settings looks as they should.

The situation is:

Panasonic VCR
TV: black & white image, sound.
PC/Elgato: black & white image, sound.

Philips VCR
TV: colour image, sound. Just fine.
PC/Elgato: no image, just sound.

[latreche34]

Just return it if you can, Elgato is not a recommended capture device and I doubt you'll get any help here.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

and I doubt you'll get any help here.

No, don't say that. The help is to be told not to use Elgato capture cards (as those earned the nickname Elcrapo). I have never ascribed to the idea that help somehow precludes being told "no, don't do that". I do try to salvage bad situations, when possible, if required. But sometimes there is no salvation, the gear is complete crap. That goes beyond just video, too.

Everything in this thread is "how not to convert video".

At some point, I'll reply more, busy now.

[Boppo]

OK, I understand that everybody thinks Elgato is crap.

I used Elgato to digitalize all my PAL VHS tapes. The result was good enough for me.

What I'm trying to achieve now is to digitalize the NTSC VHS tapes I bought in Brazil. Mostly documentaries. I just want to transfer the tapes to my PC and then get rid of the tapes. No need at all for high quality.

My problem isn't about quality. It's about manage to transfer the NTSC tapes to the PC. They just need to be in colour and have audio. Nothing more than that.

I want to either manage to have colour on the video when using Panasonic VCR OR getting picture when using Philips VCR. That's what I need help with, not which other capture devices that gives better quality.

[Bogilein]

https://www.digitalfaq.com/search-re...241j2786741j13

read the comments of the user hodgey in the various posts

[Boppo]

Thanks Bogilein, interesting reading.

It seems like the suggested solution would be to buy another VCR. I already have two and I won't buy another one.
I rather try to get it to work with one those I have.

[latreche34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I have never ascribed to the idea that help somehow precludes being told "no, don't do that". I do try to salvage bad situations, when possible, if required.

That's another way of looking at it I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boppo

I bought in Brazil. Mostly documentaries. I just want to transfer the tapes to my PC and then get rid of the tapes.

Had you included this in your original post, the discussion would have been completely different, Brazil don't have NTSC, They've used PAL-M, Here is a cheat sheet FYI:

[Boppo]

I don't argue with your facts. I just know that all the VHS tapes that were sold (and also in rental shops) were marked "NTSC". See attached image.

Does this fact affect my problem?

[latreche34]

If they are indeed PAL-M they are technically NTSC, just the chroma sub is 3.57MHz instead of 3.58MHz for native NTSC, which could be a problem for Elgato or a multistandard TV, I have never dealt with this format so I cannot help you any further, But I would reach to someone who lived there, they may have some video devices that can spit out native NTSC such as a DVD recorder, a VCR or even a capture card. For instance the S&W TBS800 I have can take any video format including PAL-M and PAL-N.

[Boppo]

OK, the tapes are marked "NTSC" and if they are indeed PAL-M they are techically NTSC. Still it causes problems. Complicated.

[Bogilein]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boppo

Thanks Bogilein, interesting reading.

It seems like the suggested solution would be to buy another VCR. I already have two and I won't buy another one.
I rather try to get it to work with one those I have.

Then you have read the wrong articles. The recommendation from hodgey was to use a Sony or Pioneer DVD recorders for PAL60. Where the signal is only looped through. These can be bought cheaply used here in Europe (Germany) for less than 20 euros. That would be worth a try instead of buying an NTSC video recorder or a new capture card.

These are probably the following models (without guarantee):
Sony:
RDR-HX750/HX950 (2007)
RDR-GX350 (2007)
RDR-HXD870/HXD970/HXD1070 (2007)
RDR-GX380 (2008)
RDR-HX680/HX780/HX785/HX980/HX1080 (2008)
RDR-HXD790/HXD890/HXD990/HXD1090 (2008)
RDR-HXD795/HXD895/HXD995/HXD1095 (2008)
RDR-AT100/AT105/AT107/AT200/AT205 (2009)

Pioneer:
DVR-630H-S/DVR-530H-S (2005) (the last devices before the cooperation with Sony, but are not quite as good as the other devices)
DVR-540H-S/DVR-440H-S/DVR-440H-K (2006)
DVR-645H-S/DVR-545H-S (2006)
DVR-550H-S (2007)
DVR-555H-S (2007)
DVR-LX60/DVR-LX60D (2007)
DVR-LX70D (2007)
DVR-560H-K/DVR-560H-S (2008)


The Sony RDR-HXx70 were to be twins to the Pioneer DVR-x40, the Sony RDR-HXx80 to the Pioneer DVR-x50 and the Sony RDR-HXx90 to the Pioneer DVR-LX70.

The AT series were then the remaining stock from the cooperation with Pioneer after their collapse and should also correspond to the LX70 series or the DVR-x50.

[Boppo]

Thanks Bogilein.
Where I live they are more expensive. I'll wait and see if Elgato support have a solution without buying any new machines. Thanks anyway!

[latreche34]

Whatever you buy make sure you read the user manual and it shows clearly that it supports PAL-M before you buy it, as the issue now is no longer PAL60 or NTSC 4.43.

[latreche34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boppo

OK, the tapes are marked "NTSC" and if they are indeed PAL-M they are technically NTSC. Still it causes problems. Complicated.

Not complicated at all, The chroma frequency is different, that's why you have no color, Imagine you tune in to a FM station that broadcast at 102.7 MHz for example, you set your radio dial to 102.5 MHz, do you expect to get a clean signal? if at all? They are both FM aren't they?

[Boppo]

Well, I think it's complicated. If it's PAL-M then it shouldn't be written NTSC on the cover of the tapes. Its should be written PAL-M.

-- merged --

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

Whatever you buy make sure you read the user manual and it shows clearly that it supports PAL-M before you buy it, as the issue now is no longer PAL60 or NTSC 4.43.

ECD do support PAL-M.

"<!--  ===================================================  -->
<!--  Description                                          -->
<!--  ===================================================  -->
<!--  | VideoInputFormat: Auto, PAL, NTSC, SECAM, PAL60 |  -->
<!--  |                   PAL-M, PAL-N

-- merged --

I've been testing changing the settings in Elgato Capture Device.
The Elgato support finally answered: "If you have not already, please change Elgato Video Capture's input from PAL to NTSC before capturing NTSC VHS tapes. and let us know if that helps."

In the settings there is a part called: <TVFormat>Auto</TVFormat>

I've tested to change the Auto to PAL60, PAL, NTSC, PAL, PAL-M, PALM.
The results were:
Philips VCR: no video, just audio.
Panasonic VCR: black & white video and sound.

<!--  ===================================================  -->
<!--  Description                                          -->
<!--  ===================================================  -->
<!--  | VideoInputFormat: Auto, PAL, NTSC, SECAM, PAL60 |  -->
<!--  |                   PAL-M, PAL-N                  |  -->
<!--  | VideoFormat:      H.264                         |  -->
<!--  | VideoResolution:  640x480                       |  -->
<!--  | AudioFormat:      AAC                           |  -->
<!--  | AspectRatio:      4:3, 16:9                     |  -->
<!--  | VideoInput:       Composite, S-Video            |  -->
<!--  | Gain:             0.0 - 2.0                     |  -->
<!--  | TraceLevel:       0 - 4                         |  -->
<!--  ===================================================  -->
<Settings xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
<Application>
<Language>English</Language>
<OverwriteLanguage>false</OverwriteLanguage>
<CheckForUpdates>true</CheckForUpdates>
<LastSkippedUpdate/>
</Application>
<Device>
<TVFormat>Auto</TVFormat>
<VideoBitrateScale>0.75</VideoBitrateScale>
</Device>
<Preview>
<MuteSound>false</MuteSound>
<ForceYUY2>false</ForceYUY2>
</Preview>
<Capture>
<Directory>D:\username\Videos</Directory>
<RecordingDuration>60</RecordingDuration>
<UserDefinedRecordingDuration>240</UserDefinedRecordingDuration>
<AutoStopRecording>false</AutoStopRecording>
<Quality>9</Quality>
<HighResolution>true</HighResolution>
<HighResolutionAvailableTested>true</HighResolutionAvailableTested>
<PreserveSourceFormat>false</PreserveSourceFormat>
</Capture>
<Video>
<AspectRatio>4:3</AspectRatio>
<VideoInput>Composite</VideoInput>
<Brightness>5000</Brightness>
<Contrast>5000</Contrast>
<Hue>5000</Hue>
<Saturation>5000</Saturation>
<Cropping>4</Cropping>
</Video>
<Audio>
<Gain>0</Gain>
</Audio>
<YouTube>
<SelectedAccount/>
<SelectedCategory/>
<Tags/>
<PrivateFlag>false</PrivateFlag>
</YouTube>
<YouTubev3>
<AccessTokens/>
<AuthCodePinRegEx>Success code=(.+)</AuthCodePinRegEx>
<CategoryId>1</CategoryId>
</YouTubev3>
<Debug>
<TraceLevel>4</TraceLevel>
</Debug>
</Settings>

[lordsmurf]

Elgato is not suggested for multiple reasons. While the quality is craptastic, the functionality of the card is also frustrating. I'm not sure what this is (xml?), but switching PAL/NTSC is a function of the capturing software. Elgato fights VirtualDub, still the best capture software, either working wrong or not at all. But even OBS, AmaRecTV, and others, fail to work any better. You're stuck with the junky "included" software it came with.